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Old 22-05-2014, 04:26 PM   #2851
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if u look at the comments in the forums here, many are still comparing sp3 and ipad.

as for merging both os, i think the market has decided that it's best left separate. None of the hybrids can even take on the mba. so don't expect sp3 to do it.

agree marketing is wrong. Consumers end up thinking sp and rt are the same. SP in reality should have a different name and compete with all the tablet hybrids are out there.

Compete with Apple? for some reason, while it does make sense, the market prefers what Apple is doing. but i agree theres a market for hybrids, maybe a smaller one.

lastly, LTE will make the price higher and i think none of the hybrids at the moment have LTE.
Unfortunately, MS has no idea how to market this thing, even though we're 3 generations in. The point about posters here comparing the iPad to the SP3 is very valid, and we're geeks! How is the typical consumer supposed to know what the Surface Pro is if some of us geeks can't even get it? MS's failed marketing, which is vague, at best and confusing, at worst, is just depressing to witness. Surface slogans should introduce the hardware as clearly and simply as possible since it's a new market segment, but they're making 'cool' ads featuring things like breakdancing schoolgirls and throwing up slogans like 'the tablet that can replace your laptop' and fkin EVERYBODY's confused.

Apple likes to keep things simple, that's why they've left this market space alone thus far. It's an approach that's clearly working out for them since their laptops and tablets are doing so well. Kudos to MS for carving out a new market niche, and while their Surface hardware is indeed very exciting and forward-thinking, it's clear that MS's marketing dept. is struggling to catch up.
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Old 22-05-2014, 07:43 PM   #2852
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Microsoft so nice to give us surface pro 3 instead of 2. Who say they forget SG? Haha
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Old 22-05-2014, 10:32 PM   #2853
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Microsoft so nice to give us surface pro 3 instead of 2. Who say they forget SG? Haha
Seriously, I guess they saw some potential in our tiny dot.
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Old 22-05-2014, 11:32 PM   #2854
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Hi all, can I use my 4G dongle on Surface 2 RT?. Can the usb port recognize the software in the dongle? Or must I get the Pro version? Thanks in advance.
Don't waste time on rt...get a pro version.
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Old 23-05-2014, 12:54 AM   #2855
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Its interesting to read up enthusiast and experts sharing their concerns about the marketing stratergy by Microsoft and comparing it to Apple or apple ipad in this thread.

But im having difficulties in understanding how significant these concerns, will do to us. Can someone please enlighten me. My hands are itching to get surface pro 3 already.
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Old 23-05-2014, 12:58 AM   #2856
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About the Wacom to N-Trig change...

Pensieri personali, Some insights into Wacom > N-Trig change: #Surface pro 3

Some insights into Wacom > N-Trig change: #Surface pro 3
1. It helps to make the tablet thinner.

One of the reasons bigger and fatter Wacom Tablet PCs work better than thinner ones is that they can use thicker and better sensor board. I think one of the reasons why Surface Pro 1 and 2 was thicker than most people would have liked is because of the extra depth needed for the sensor board layer below the LCD. N-Trig does not use extra sensor board, but just uses the projected capacitive touch layer for X/Y coordinate.

2. Wacom DID NOT want bigger Surface to have Wacom in it.

Recently Wacom has “requested” MS that they do not advertise Surface Pro 1 and 2 having Wacom tech. Indeed when you go to MS Store, now they will avoid telling you that they have Wacom pen in it..

This is because Wacom does not want Surface Pro from further eating into Cintiq Companion sales, which is not as good as they hoped (hence the price drop). The Pro 1 and 2 was eating into it bad enough at 10”. At 12”, this would be a disaster, so no more Wacom inside.

3. Hardware wise, N-Trig has caught up with Wacom:

The new Duo Sense 2 with v3 firmware is Very good. The pressure curve is just as responsive, the tip is just as sensitive, and temporal update rate is similar. And N-Trig’s design by nature has less parallax issues, and tip offset issues since the pen tip sensor is closer to the pen tip, and the sensor grid for X/Y coordinate is right at the surface of the tablet.

The only remaining problems are drivers, and software support.

Software support isn’t what you think it is. It is more subtle and entrenched. Most art software out there was first written when N-Trig did not exist, and they are tailored for Wacom’s pressure curve. This is why N-Trig feels a bit “off” with things like Painter for example. But with more recent apps with neutral pressure curve like Fresh Paint, they feel about the same.

As for drivers, if you use apps that already support Microsoft’s tablet API, like Manga Studio 5/Clip Studio Paint, then you are good to go. Just go into setting and flip the tablet settings. Even with things like Photoshop, things are getting better since now CS support Microsoft tablet API natively. We just have to wait for rest of the art app community to stop only supporting Wacom’s WinTab API.
TLDR: As I suspected, Wacom's looking out for its own interests and the Surface Pro was killing Cintiq sales, so Microsoft has to look after their own too.

I'm more intrigued by how Samsung solved the parallax issues with the Wacom digitizers. My Note 3 and Note Pro's S Pens have zero issues on the Surface Pro, even at the edge where the original Surface Pro's pen has trouble with accuracy.
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Last edited by RequiemDK; 23-05-2014 at 01:00 AM..
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Old 23-05-2014, 04:00 AM   #2857
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If anything, the announcement of the Surface Pro 3 adds credence to rumours of Apple working on a new MacBook Air which has a "fanless" design and which is even thinner than the current generation.

My personal opinions about the Surface Pro 3 and the Surface line as a whole:

1. Doesn't work well as a tablet. Still too thick, too heavy. This will be especially true for people who have used/are using an iPad Air. Because of the heft, it wouldn't be very pleasant to use it as a tablet for prolonged periods.

2. Best used as an ultrabook replacement, which can be occasionally used as a tablet. However, typing on an actual notebook keyboard is still much better than typing on the type cover.
There is only 1 USB port.
Also, even though the kickstand can be adjusted to be at any angle now, I don't think it would be very comfortable to use it as a notebook on your lap. Just think about it. How uncomfortable would it be? And you probably have to sit with both of your legs very close to each other to balance the thing.
I can use my MacBook Pro very comfortably on my lap, but with my Surface RT which I sold off, I couldn't. Maybe it's better now with the new kickstand.
I think this unpleasantness stems from the fact that the Surface is propped up by a kickstand at the back, whereas a laptop has a clamshell design. The Surface keyboard gets fidgeted around when being typed on when it is not placed on a totally flat surface. It gets very annoying.
Any other Surface users experienced what I'm talking about here?

3. As a result of point 1 and point 2, it doesn't function well as a tablet, neither does it function well as a full-fledged notebook. It is a confused product. Compromises are made on both the tablet and notebook front.

4. It is not priced right. For the price, I think consumers would be better off getting a MacBook Air or MacBook Pro.

5. But I do think it was remarkably impressive that they managed to incorporate that much horsepower and features into such a design. Coming from my bad experience with a Surface RT, I just don't think it will work very well.

I would advice people who are interested in the Surface Pro 3 to wait for the rumoured new MacBook Air with "fanless" design. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 23-05-2014, 07:46 AM   #2858
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August then we can even get our hands on the Surface Pro 3...
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Old 23-05-2014, 08:23 AM   #2859
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If anything, the announcement of the Surface Pro 3 adds credence to rumours of Apple working on a new MacBook Air which has a "fanless" design and which is even thinner than the current generation.

My personal opinions about the Surface Pro 3 and the Surface line as a whole:

1. Doesn't work well as a tablet. Still too thick, too heavy. This will be especially true for people who have used/are using an iPad Air. Because of the heft, it wouldn't be very pleasant to use it as a tablet for prolonged periods.

2. Best used as an ultrabook replacement, which can be occasionally used as a tablet. However, typing on an actual notebook keyboard is still much better than typing on the type cover.
There is only 1 USB port.
Also, even though the kickstand can be adjusted to be at any angle now, I don't think it would be very comfortable to use it as a notebook on your lap. Just think about it. How uncomfortable would it be? And you probably have to sit with both of your legs very close to each other to balance the thing.
I can use my MacBook Pro very comfortably on my lap, but with my Surface RT which I sold off, I couldn't. Maybe it's better now with the new kickstand.
I think this unpleasantness stems from the fact that the Surface is propped up by a kickstand at the back, whereas a laptop has a clamshell design. The Surface keyboard gets fidgeted around when being typed on when it is not placed on a totally flat surface. It gets very annoying.
Any other Surface users experienced what I'm talking about here?

3. As a result of point 1 and point 2, it doesn't function well as a tablet, neither does it function well as a full-fledged notebook. It is a confused product. Compromises are made on both the tablet and notebook front.

4. It is not priced right. For the price, I think consumers would be better off getting a MacBook Air or MacBook Pro.

5. But I do think it was remarkably impressive that they managed to incorporate that much horsepower and features into such a design. Coming from my bad experience with a Surface RT, I just don't think it will work very well.

I would advice people who are interested in the Surface Pro 3 to wait for the rumoured new MacBook Air with "fanless" design. Just my 2 cents.
1. It is never intended to be used on tablet mode for prolonged period (e.g. watching a movie or playing a game) and this is true also for numerous other hybrids out there. But being able to go into tablet mode is very useful in presentations and meetings. Imagine holding a MBA while walking around talking through a Powerpoint presentation.

2. Surface sucks as a laptop if you take the word 'laptop' literally. But if you are Surface Pro's main target audience i.e. corporate users, you will most likely be using it on your table most of the time. On the event that you need to be mobile and need to complete work on MRT for example, you can always just use the tablet mode to do some last minute works; I am sure you are not going to type a 2000 word document on your lap, right? If die die need a traditional 'laptop', there are plenty of choices available.

3. It aims to reduce the amount of devices you carry. Yes, one can technically carry a very good tablet and a very good laptop. Despite the compromises, you got to admit SP3 is the first time you can see the two form factors are combined.

4. Pricing I think is competitive. SP3 has more features compared to similar speced MBA e.g. touch screen, pen, etc.

5. I own SP1 and it is a capable machine. Surface RT is crap, I think we all can agree on that.
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Old 23-05-2014, 09:08 AM   #2860
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If anything, the announcement of the Surface Pro 3 adds credence to rumours of Apple working on a new MacBook Air which has a "fanless" design and which is even thinner than the current generation.

My personal opinions about the Surface Pro 3 and the Surface line as a whole:

1. Doesn't work well as a tablet. Still too thick, too heavy. This will be especially true for people who have used/are using an iPad Air. Because of the heft, it wouldn't be very pleasant to use it as a tablet for prolonged periods.

2. Best used as an ultrabook replacement, which can be occasionally used as a tablet. However, typing on an actual notebook keyboard is still much better than typing on the type cover.
There is only 1 USB port.
Also, even though the kickstand can be adjusted to be at any angle now, I don't think it would be very comfortable to use it as a notebook on your lap. Just think about it. How uncomfortable would it be? And you probably have to sit with both of your legs very close to each other to balance the thing.
I can use my MacBook Pro very comfortably on my lap, but with my Surface RT which I sold off, I couldn't. Maybe it's better now with the new kickstand.
I think this unpleasantness stems from the fact that the Surface is propped up by a kickstand at the back, whereas a laptop has a clamshell design. The Surface keyboard gets fidgeted around when being typed on when it is not placed on a totally flat surface. It gets very annoying.
Any other Surface users experienced what I'm talking about here?

3. As a result of point 1 and point 2, it doesn't function well as a tablet, neither does it function well as a full-fledged notebook. It is a confused product. Compromises are made on both the tablet and notebook front.

4. It is not priced right. For the price, I think consumers would be better off getting a MacBook Air or MacBook Pro.

5. But I do think it was remarkably impressive that they managed to incorporate that much horsepower and features into such a design. Coming from my bad experience with a Surface RT, I just don't think it will work very well.

I would advice people who are interested in the Surface Pro 3 to wait for the rumoured new MacBook Air with "fanless" design. Just my 2 cents.
I've rarely ever used a laptop on my lap. When I'm at home, my laptop is closed because whatever experience a laptop can offer, my desktop does it better. At work, my Surface Pro 1 is used either on the desk augmented by a 27 inch monitor, or on the go, as a tablet PC where the pen is essential. The iPad Air, which I also have one of, is irrelevant in this case because it will not and cannot do what the Surface Pro does. Neither does the Macbook Air or Macbook Pro, unless you attach a Wacom Intuos tablet to it and think that walking around holding an MBA/MBP with a Wacom tablet looks fine... In a pinch, yes I've used the Surface Pro on my lap before and yes, it's not an optimal place for it to be, but eh. I don't like putting laptops on my lap in the first place. Seriously, not even an MBA needs to be there. For those who insist on doing so though, it's still too early to tell how convenient the Pro 3 will be in that position - the main reason why the Surface Pro wasn't so good on the lap was a combination of its weight and the odd angle for the kickstand. The Pro 3 seems to be quite a bit lighter, although it's bigger.

Personally, I think the Surface Pro is about as confused as the average consumer. I got it for exactly what it does. Where's the confusion? That's like saying that an SUV is a confused car/truck.

I think people who use a Surface Pro won't be served by a new Macbook Air or Macbook Pro. Unless you throw in an iPad with an active digitizer in there... but that does not exist and the price would be higher than just buying a Pro 3. Pricing-wise, perhaps the i3 version can be considered a mainstream consumer product, in which case it's not all that expensive given what it does. I don't think the aim of the higher end Pro 3s is to take over the bulk of the tablet/laptop market at all. People use their iPads for all sorts of things that don't need Core i5/7 power, like sitting around in Starbucks playing Clash of Clans for hours when their homework lies in front of them undone.
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Old 23-05-2014, 09:28 AM   #2861
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Hi, i'm a previous surface 2 user, the USB port doesn't recognize our local internet dongle. Best is to use your MI-FI. or sell away your S2 and get sp3!

u mean we cannot use our mobile broadband for browsing?

definitely must use wifi?
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Old 23-05-2014, 10:04 AM   #2862
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5. I own SP1 and it is a capable machine. Surface RT is crap, I think we all can agree on that.
Although I don't really see the point of the RT too, I know people who sold away their iPads for either the RT or Surface 2 and couldn't be happier with it. I think they only use it for surfing/email/light Office use with the Type Cover and that's about it... Never seen them even step into the Windows Store, or the App Store when they were on iPads. Ever seen an app-less iPhone/iPad?
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Old 23-05-2014, 10:06 AM   #2863
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u mean we cannot use our mobile broadband for browsing?

definitely must use wifi?
Surface 2 in SG is wifi only. The LTE version of Surface 2 is only in the US right now...
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Old 23-05-2014, 10:35 AM   #2864
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but this link seems to say can

Set up your Microsoft Surface 2: Mobile broadband (4G)
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Old 23-05-2014, 11:31 AM   #2865
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Its interesting to read up enthusiast and experts sharing their concerns about the marketing stratergy by Microsoft and comparing it to Apple or apple ipad in this thread.

But im having difficulties in understanding how significant these concerns, will do to us. Can someone please enlighten me. My hands are itching to get surface pro 3 already.
MS strategy is to target MBA. but SP3 is more of a business laptop, which the MBA isn't, although it can be used tat way. so MS strategy should be to compete with the thinkpad tablets or other hybrids out there. Apple got no hybrid so no need to even compare.

when u compete with someone whose product is essentially different, don't think it can take sales away. So the problem starts with the marketing rightaway with the presenter taking shots at mba or even ipad. many of the ipad users use it cos of the App store too.

Seriously, if MS really wants to be truly hybrid, put it discrete GPU. so tat gamers can use it too. but do ppl really want all in one? seems unlikely.

pls don't tell me u want one. we're talking about the market in general.

think about it. why windows tablets could never succeed in the past? it can do everything! while a limited ipad can sell in droves.

smartphone can do everything last time. file management etc. but iphone smashed the competition.

it's not always about a product's capabilities but whether ppl want it.
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