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Old 23-05-2014, 12:06 PM   #2866
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MS strategy is to target MBA. but SP3 is more of a business laptop, which the MBA isn't, although it can be used tat way. so MS strategy should be to compete with the thinkpad tablets or other hybrids out there. Apple got no hybrid so no need to even compare.

when u compete with someone whose product is essentially different, don't think it can take sales away. So the problem starts with the marketing rightaway with the presenter taking shots at mba or even ipad. many of the ipad users use it cos of the App store too.

Seriously, if MS really wants to be truly hybrid, put it discrete GPU. so tat gamers can use it too. but do ppl really want all in one? seems unlikely.

pls don't tell me u want one. we're talking about the market in general.

think about it. why windows tablets could never succeed in the past? it can do everything! while a limited ipad can sell in droves.

smartphone can do everything last time. file management etc. but iphone smashed the competition.

it's not always about a product's capabilities but whether ppl want it.
The reason why TabletPC didn't take off is due to 3 factors. I was there! I owned 2, an Acer TravelMate & my current Fujitsu.

1. Technology. In 2001/2 when TPC was launched, the CPU had to be slower than a normal laptop due to heat & battery life. There was no way to project the Desktop screen wirelessly, no capacitive multi-touchscreens, no super-thin/lightweight OLED screens, etc. The concept was WAY ahead of its time. No MEM accelerometer, GPS, magnetometer.

The harddisk is also slower at 4200RPM & needs to park every time you jerk your TPC. No SSD back then.

2. Software. Back then we have Windows XP Tablet Edition, which is basically Windows XP + a bunch of onscreen keyboard & fun software. XP was never optimized as a energy conserving OS. It still allow a crashed software to basically suck your battery life dry in a short time. Software back then was not battery aware so your Anti-virus can happily run in the background even if your TPC is on battery.

3. Price. A TPC is typically 30-40% more expensive than a more powerful laptop of the same screen size. The battery may last longer but everything is slower. My 10" Acer TravelMate with a Pentium M CPU was $3000. My Fujitsu with a Centrino was $4000. A Fujitsu Stylistic with a Centrino Duo + 2GB RAM was $7000!

Why is it so expensive? Because ALL the components in the past were bigger & you need a very stiff chassis to maintain structural integrity. So they use Magnesium Alloy, which is very expensive & difficult to work with.

These days, all the components are so small & light so the cheaper aluminium alloy can be used. The outer construction can be polycarbonate which is cheap as well. Bringing prices down.

Do people want it? For many, yes! Especially if the company is paying for it. For most others who have to pay with their own money, no because it's slower than a similar sized laptop.
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Last edited by E_T; 23-05-2014 at 12:10 PM..
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Old 23-05-2014, 12:18 PM   #2867
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The reason why TabletPC didn't take off is due to 3 factors. I was there! I owned 2, an Acer TravelMate & my current Fujitsu.

1. Technology. In 2001/2 when TPC was launched, the CPU had to be slower than a normal laptop due to heat & battery life. There was no way to project the Desktop screen wirelessly, no capacitive multi-touchscreens, no super-thin/lightweight OLED screens, etc. The concept was WAY ahead of its time. No MEM accelerometer, GPS, magnetometer.

The harddisk is also slower at 4200RPM & needs to park every time you jerk your TPC. No SSD back then.

2. Software. Back then we have Windows XP Tablet Edition, which is basically Windows XP + a bunch of onscreen keyboard & fun software. XP was never optimized as a energy conserving OS. It still allow a crashed software to basically suck your battery life dry in a short time. Software back then was not battery aware so your Anti-virus can happily run in the background even if your TPC is on battery.

3. Price. A TPC is typically 30-40% more expensive than a more powerful laptop of the same screen size. The battery may last longer but everything is slower. My 10" Acer TravelMate with a Pentium M CPU was $3000. My Fujitsu with a Centrino was $4000. A Fujitsu Stylistic with a Centrino Duo + 2GB RAM was $7000!

Why is it so expensive? Because ALL the components in the past were bigger & you need a very stiff chassis to maintain structural integrity. So they use Magnesium Alloy, which is very expensive & difficult to work with.

These days, all the components are so small & light so the cheaper aluminium alloy can be used. The outer construction can be polycarbonate which is cheap as well. Bringing prices down.

Do people want it? For many, yes! Especially if the company is paying for it. For most others who have to pay with their own money, no because it's slower than a similar sized laptop.
i admit sp3 may be a game changer. u never know if consumers start realising all in one is good like how large screen smartphones became trendy although i still prefer smaller screens.

it seems like a make or break item for ms. if it still fails to capture the market from apple, then we more or less know what the general consumer likes.
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Old 23-05-2014, 12:52 PM   #2868
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Yes, I know what you mean Trento. At the moment, MS still in transition so this drama will be like a 400 episode Taiwanese drama.

Having said that, the Surface + SP1/2 command the highest market share in Windows Tablet arena as of 1Q14. I'm currently using a Dell Venue 8 Pro & while it's fine to watch YouTube & read news on it, the 8" screen isn't very good for productive work.

Even if I'm using a BT keyboard, the words on the screens are either too tiny or I can't see enough of the software on the screen.

The 12" & 3:2 factor of the SP3 is just nice & similar enough to a traditional laptop 4:3 for most people to be productive. And yes, SP3 has a lot to proof.

Talking about AIO PCs, I'm starting to see more people buying those. Both Home & Business users!
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Old 23-05-2014, 01:18 PM   #2869
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hi ,swap my magenta type cover 2 for purple or blue colour. anyone?
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Old 23-05-2014, 01:40 PM   #2870
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Yes, I know what you mean Trento. At the moment, MS still in transition so this drama will be like a 400 episode Taiwanese drama.

Having said that, the Surface + SP1/2 command the highest market share in Windows Tablet arena as of 1Q14. I'm currently using a Dell Venue 8 Pro & while it's fine to watch YouTube & read news on it, the 8" screen isn't very good for productive work.

Even if I'm using a BT keyboard, the words on the screens are either too tiny or I can't see enough of the software on the screen.

The 12" & 3:2 factor of the SP3 is just nice & similar enough to a traditional laptop 4:3 for most people to be productive. And yes, SP3 has a lot to proof.

Talking about AIO PCs, I'm starting to see more people buying those. Both Home & Business users!
I like the part " 400 episode Taiwanese drama " lol I think microsoft is already reaching the 1000 episode... they are moving too many things, first their cloud office solution, nokia phones, windows operating system, and now tablets. I guess we need a SP 5 to ensure that the model they build will be much more better.

My guess from how they transit from windows into attempting android scenario where they decide to try the market and possibilities of dual booting it but in true who really need two os on a phone. ( But on a tablet it will be a different story )
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Old 23-05-2014, 02:25 PM   #2871
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This is a nice and balanced take on the SP3, from someone who appreciates it for what it is, and is well aware of what it isn't.

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/if-you-ha...496376264.html

Epilogue:
Do you need this beast?

That said, there are legitimate reasons to pass on the Surface.

If all you need is a tablet, get a tablet; youíll save money, weight, and thickness. If all you need is a laptop, get a laptop; youíll save money, youíll probably have more storage, and your machine will be more rigid and secure when itís in your lap.

And, of course, if you prefer Appleís unified, attractive universe of machines that work wirelessly together, well, then a Windows machine isnít for you.

But if you own or carry around both a tablet and a laptop, then the Surface is calling out your name. Thereís nothing like it.

Itís so much better than the sales figures would indicate. We, the buying public, are not giving it a fair shake.

If this marvel of engineering doesnít lift the Microsoft hardware curse, I donít know what its designers are supposed to do. Maybe join a self-help group with Cassandra and Sisyphus.
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Old 23-05-2014, 03:10 PM   #2872
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i admit sp3 may be a game changer. u never know if consumers start realising all in one is good like how large screen smartphones became trendy although i still prefer smaller screens.

it seems like a make or break item for ms. if it still fails to capture the market from apple, then we more or less know what the general consumer likes.
I really hope I'm wrong, but I don't think it'll capture much market share. I own and use a Galaxy Note 3 to bits. To me, the biggest attraction of that phone is the Wacom stylus. But it seems like most people who buy the Note 3 aren't even aware of the stylus, much less use it. That should give an idea of just how unimportant an active digitizer is to most consumers. Take that away from the Surface Pro 3, and while what's left is no doubt an absolutely brilliant device, it also seems to be too powerful for what most people need in their lives. I honestly doubt that many people need Core iX power when they spend most of their time playing Candy Crush... It's a little disturbing to imagine hordes of hippies sitting around at Starbucks playing some Candy Crush clone on a Core iX device. Terrible waste of computing power. Maybe Windows 8.1 for the Surface Pro 3 should come pre-installed with SETI@Home...

To that market niche that needs such capabilities though, there're very very few devices that fit better than the Surface Pro 3.
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Old 23-05-2014, 04:17 PM   #2873
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This is a nice and balanced take on the SP3, from someone who appreciates it for what it is, and is well aware of what it isn't.

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/if-you-ha...496376264.html

Epilogue:
not sure if any market research is done but just how many would carry a tablet and laptop together? so again, i have my doubts if this will be a killer product in terms of sales. but no doubt about it, it is a killer product.
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Old 23-05-2014, 04:26 PM   #2874
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I really hope I'm wrong, but I don't think it'll capture much market share. I own and use a Galaxy Note 3 to bits. To me, the biggest attraction of that phone is the Wacom stylus. But it seems like most people who buy the Note 3 aren't even aware of the stylus, much less use it. That should give an idea of just how unimportant an active digitizer is to most consumers. Take that away from the Surface Pro 3, and while what's left is no doubt an absolutely brilliant device, it also seems to be too powerful for what most people need in their lives. I honestly doubt that many people need Core iX power when they spend most of their time playing Candy Crush... It's a little disturbing to imagine hordes of hippies sitting around at Starbucks playing some Candy Crush clone on a Core iX device. Terrible waste of computing power. Maybe Windows 8.1 for the Surface Pro 3 should come pre-installed with SETI@Home...

To that market niche that needs such capabilities though, there're very very few devices that fit better than the Surface Pro 3.
i use a SP1 and it's not suitable as a laptop due its 10 inch screen. 12 inch SP3, my guess is it wont be suitable as a tablet. if it were so, the yoga would have trounced apple long ago. although the yoga is slight heavier due to the keyboard.

i sometimes wonder if apple come out a hybrid, will sales be awesome? after all, iphone and ipad were not new inventions. so maybe, apple just makes nicer products, better user experience despite its limitations.

btw, there are rumors ipad pro 12 inch is coming out. if tat outsells sp3, i think we all know why.
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Old 23-05-2014, 05:18 PM   #2875
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i use a SP1 and it's not suitable as a laptop due its 10 inch screen. 12 inch SP3, my guess is it wont be suitable as a tablet. if it were so, the yoga would have trounced apple long ago. although the yoga is slight heavier due to the keyboard.

i sometimes wonder if apple come out a hybrid, will sales be awesome? after all, iphone and ipad were not new inventions. so maybe, apple just makes nicer products, better user experience despite its limitations.

btw, there are rumors ipad pro 12 inch is coming out. if tat outsells sp3, i think we all know why.
Actually, for artists, 10 inch is too small for a tablet. The minimum comfortable size is 12 inch. However the original Surface Pro was a good substitute despite its size due to other factors, like cost - yes its considered cheap for a device of that capabilities. Lol. The Wacom Cintiq costs close to 3k+.

I also use a 12 inch tablet right now and don't find it crammed. The aspect ratio plays a big part in this. A 4:3 aspect ratio 12 inch tablet is quite a lot more unwieldy than a 16:10 one (note pro). Not to say that the Note Pro isn't unwieldy, but for what I do, a 12 inch tablet is exactly what I need, so even the ideal tablet size depends on the person. That's why I guess people were disappointed at not seeing a Surface Mini. The Yoga actually seems to sell well, outside of Singapore, but it is hardly in the same league as the SP3 in terms of build quality, weight and functionality as a tablet PC.

I fully expect an iPad Pro to outsell the SP3 based on the brand name alone. Don't underestimate the power of ignorance and inertia. I do part time tech support for my colleagues' personal IT devices and to majority of them, the iPad purchase was done with no use case in mind besides "everyone else is buying one". I've ever had to inbox a brand new in box 8 month old iPad for a colleague to help him set it up....... *pengz*

Also, it's a lot easier to change a device that costs $700-$1000 every year than to change a $1500 device, which is around what the 128gb version of the SP1/2 would have cost. I wonder if Microsoft understands that competing in the laptop space is going to dull the SP3's growth - people don't exactly consider changing laptops and desktops that often nowadays...

Last edited by RequiemDK; 23-05-2014 at 05:30 PM..
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Old 23-05-2014, 08:11 PM   #2876
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If an Ipad Pro is not meant to be a productivity device, then there's no reason for a large screen with the added weight. If it is a productivity device, it will have to come with a keyboard and touchpad, in which case it will simply be the laptop replacement (ala SP3) that clearly competes against Apple's own Macbook Air. There just doesn't seem to be a compelling reason to have one, unless Apple intends to scrap the Macbook Air altogether.
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Old 23-05-2014, 10:40 PM   #2877
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.........

Also, it's a lot easier to change a device that costs $700-$1000 every year than to change a $1500 device, which is around what the 128gb version of the SP1/2 would have cost. I wonder if Microsoft understands that competing in the laptop space is going to dull the SP3's growth - people don't exactly consider changing laptops and desktops that often nowadays...
Well Microsoft basically want to hit on both laptop and tablet market if you look at what they are trying to achieve to business sense.

1. its has a touch screen
2. i3/i5/i7 horse power to run 64 bit operating system
3. It has more ram options compare to other tablet in the market right now
4. storage offers for different user.

If they though of this, then these people who decide to use the SP 3 must get the type cover or wireless/Bluetooth keyboard in order to act like a laptop and use it.

When user see options such as stylus, they are thinking ok document that require signature can use the stylus. ( Artist/designer can also use it to edit it a little and not to recreate imagine architecture design need a much bigger screen than 12 inch to perform the task. But with a tablet, the blueprint can be view on the tablet and make minor adjustment. )

App Store not fulfilling enough apps for consumer and business user.

Microsoft wants developer to help them build their windows apps store but then there's no market due Microsoft past history had give developer deep impression to those that are really good at developing apps. Developer feared of building windows apps store that does not warranty success to earn or feel worthwhile what if they follow the Microsoft Zune or Windows CE stage.

Here comes the bigger problem from Microsoft coz consumer need contents, need apps but they can get it from iPad or Android much easier.

Overall I agree they are wasting if they decide ok we will called it laptop rather than a tablet I guess it will make more sense for SP 3 ( Tablet in my view need two things , stable OS and apps content must be sufficient for all groups of work or personal ).
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Old 24-05-2014, 12:30 AM   #2878
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If an Ipad Pro is not meant to be a productivity device, then there's no reason for a large screen with the added weight. If it is a productivity device, it will have to come with a keyboard and touchpad, in which case it will simply be the laptop replacement (ala SP3) that clearly competes against Apple's own Macbook Air. There just doesn't seem to be a compelling reason to have one, unless Apple intends to scrap the Macbook Air altogether.
they will make ipad a productivity device then but using ios. so the mba need not be scrapped.

my guess is when ipad pro launch, there'll be keyboard and stylus. Apple may market it as mobile business user, without losing the consumption of content theme.
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Old 24-05-2014, 10:14 AM   #2879
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they will make ipad a productivity device then but using ios. so the mba need not be scrapped.

my guess is when ipad pro launch, there'll be keyboard and stylus. Apple may market it as mobile business user, without losing the consumption of content theme.
But why buy an 11" or even 13" MBA when a 12-inch Ipad Pro with a keyboard can do 90% of what it can do (word processing, spreadsheets, database, planning etc) and is lighter, has a sharper screen, and comes with IOS tablet apps? If you need CPU-intensive OSX tasks, go for a 13" or 15" rMBP, which in its next Broadwell iteration will be lighter and thinner.

So if the Ipad Pro launches, the MBA's niche will be squeezed from both sides.

Microsoft doesn't build an ultrabook, so it is free to build an SP3 that competes well against ultrabooks. Apple doing the same with an Ipad Pro would be cannibalizing its own product. Makes no sense unless they are already committed to making the MBA irrelevant by making the rMBP thinner and lighter.
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Old 24-05-2014, 12:39 PM   #2880
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August then we can even get our hands on the Surface Pro 3...
Waiting for your review
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