Google Wifi with Singtel Double Nat causing issues on primary puck

Thobo800

Junior Member
Joined
May 23, 2021
Messages
18
Reaction score
3
Hi,

already researched here on the forum but still would like to get further advise.

I am/was a happy user of Google Wifi pucks. I used them in our previous apartment with Starhub and all worked just perfectly. In our new apartment we have Singtel (landlord chosen) and here we experience the following symptoms:
  • Internet Connection is there but on the primary google wifi puck keeps dropping/lagging, especially noticable in applications such as whatsapp, instagram, discord, also while browsing sometimes the pages simply do not load.
  • Connection on the 2 secondory pucks is good, no issues with the stated apps or general browsing, stable connection
What I have tried to resolve the issue
  • restarting the google wifi pucks does not really help
  • Fresh installing all pucks does not help, have tried all sorts of scenarios
  • Rotating the pucks also trying pucks from a friend does not resolve the issue (so assume not to be a hardware issue, as all pucks have this issue once made primary puck)
  • One puck needs to be primary if I want to use the 2 other pucks in the apartment (which I need), as AP mode is not supported by google wifi unless only 1 puck is used (also dont want to be restricted to Singtel ONR functionality)

Here my setup:

Singtel ONR (Nokia G240GE) connected to primary google wifi connected to a gigabit switch to pass ethernet backhaul to the other 2 google wifis in different rooms (google wifi firmware: 13099.118.19). The google wifis are far from each other so intereference should not be an issue. Most devices connect to pucks with Wifi. Intereference around the primary puck should not be an issue as I have tested Singtel provided standard wifi router there and it works just fine in that location. I am only using SIngtel 1gb internet, not using TV or Phone/Voice. Also tried adding the Singtel provided Wifi Routerin between the ONR and primary Google wifi but is giving me basically the same symptoms.

Based on reading different posts here(see below) I assume the above stated experience/symptoms are due to the double NAT between ONR and primary google wifi. Can you confirm that is sounds like a double nat issue to you? I find a bit strange that the strong symptoms are only for devices connected to the primary google puck, on secondary as mentioned the connection is stable, though speed likely not as fast/instant as it should be (comparing to just using the shitty Singtel router provided).

As a solution to double NAT (if that is really the issue), then I understand asking Singtel to set the ONR to bridge Mode would get rid of double NAT. Here a couple of related questions I have:
  • As mentioned I am just using broadband, would I still need to include a smartswitch to get rid of the vlan tagging or is that not needed as no need to separate into boradband/tv/voice. I have a smart switch (TP Link sg105e) which I can configure for removing vlan10 tagging in case that would be needed.
  • Does any one have experience in running Google Wifi behind a bridged Singtel ONR? Just wondering if Google wifi is able to manage to fully function there.
  • Can Singtel for the Nokia ONR stated above set just a single Port to bridge mode (as by Nokia ONR user interface it should be possible, but currently disabled). Asking because just in case Googel Wifi can not handle the bridged ONR well then I can in mean time while looking for a better 3rd party router setup continue to use the current approach on a non bridged port or for future if TV/Voice is added
  • Can Singtel currently bridge the Nokia ONR or would they replace it with a huwai ONR? Any drawback?
  • What is the Singtel technical support email address? Would like to also confirm on the bridging with them for the record? Asking because when using the normal hotline usually end up somewhere who is not able to answer these kind of questions.
Thank you very much in advance!


Related post I found:
 

BradenHeat

Master Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2005
Messages
3,951
Reaction score
88
just my own question for T.s ah ,

is there a reason apart from looks and ease of use, why not opt for other mesh system like the asus zen xt ?


Singtel is stable but configuration on their provided router is horrible , even if its the latest nokia

just my own 2cents hor
 

xiaofan

Supremacy Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2018
Messages
9,842
Reaction score
138
Basically do not use Google WiFi Mesh solution (new Nest Wifi or old Google WiFi) if you are with SingTel.

For SingTel ONT users Google does not support SingTel VLAN.

For SingTel ONR,.Google does not support mesh in AP mode so you will have to live with Double NAT.
 

Thobo800

Junior Member
Joined
May 23, 2021
Messages
18
Reaction score
3
Hi, I am also fine switching to another mesh system if a change is clearly necessary (a good mesh system would be 500+ SGD I guess). For me the Google Wifi fulfills/ed my needs and it is not broken, so why change it? But of course if nobody here has Google wifi sucessfully working with Singtel then I will need to change it as I cannot change the ISP.
 

Thobo800

Junior Member
Joined
May 23, 2021
Messages
18
Reaction score
3
If switching to a 3rd party router/mesh system to AP mode can I fully utilize the functionality the 3rd party router would provide? E,g, guest wifi, port forwarding, ip reservation...
 

xiaofan

Supremacy Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2018
Messages
9,842
Reaction score
138
For ONR users, the solution is to request SingTel to bridge the ONR. It is reported that Nokia ONR can be bridged by SingTel.

Once the ONR is bridged, the bridged port does not need VLAN, so you can use all the features of the Google mesh solution.

The unbridged ports will be used for SingTel TV box if you that. They do not have internet function.
 

xiaofan

Supremacy Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2018
Messages
9,842
Reaction score
138
If switching to a 3rd party router/mesh system to AP mode can I fully utilize the functionality the 3rd party router would provide? E,g, guest wifi, port forwarding, ip reservation...

For 3rd party router or mesh in AP mode, usually quite some functions may be disabled. It will depend on the 3rd party router or mesh solution.
 

Thobo800

Junior Member
Joined
May 23, 2021
Messages
18
Reaction score
3
For ONR users, the solution is to request SingTel to bridge the ONR. It is reported that Nokia ONR can be bridged by SingTel.

Once the ONR is bridged, the bridged port does not need VLAN, so you can use all the features of the Google mesh solution.

The unbridged ports will be used for SingTel TV box if you that. They do not have internet function.
Thanks that would be good if that is the case. Meaning
  1. Singtel can bridge only one port and keep rest in ONR mode
  2. Vlan is not an issue for the bridget port, and therefore Google wifi would work directly behind it not requiring a smart switch

have you tested this yourself / do you use Google Wifi with Singtel? Thanks!
 

uncle_josh

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2018
Messages
1,688
Reaction score
20
For ONR users, the solution is to request SingTel to bridge the ONR. It is reported that Nokia ONR can be bridged by SingTel.

Once the ONR is bridged, the bridged port does not need VLAN, so you can use all the features of the Google mesh solution.

The unbridged ports will be used for SingTel TV box if you that. They do not have internet function.
Just a minor correction, bridge port does have vlan tag traffic. Hence your Google mesh cannot be used.
You can only used Mesh Router which supports Singtel Vlan tagging on the bridged port.
 

bert64

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2020
Messages
544
Reaction score
73
Just a minor correction, bridge port does have vlan tag traffic. Hence your Google mesh cannot be used.
You can only used Mesh Router which supports Singtel Vlan tagging on the bridged port.
It depends on the model of ONR and how it's been configured.

They can configure the Huawei ONR to provide a bridged port without requiring vlan tags, but this has to be pushed from the backend - you can't configure it this way yourself through the ui on the device itself.

Other models i'm not sure about. You can ask if such a configuration is possible for the Nokia devices.
 

Thobo800

Junior Member
Joined
May 23, 2021
Messages
18
Reaction score
3
ok thanks, and in case bridged port without vlan tags is not possible as by SIngtel, would adding the smart switch (TP Link SG105e) dramatically impact the connection, or would it be rather not really noticeable to have it in between bridged port and google wifi primary puck to take care of the tag removal?

Also to have all that sorted by Singtel before hand would love to send them an email which can be referred to also when whoever singtell technical that would come down for onsite configuration, and to double check before they come that they have done the vlan tag removal from backend if they say it can be done, Have the singtel technical support email address I would use for these cases? Or always have to go through hotline?
 
Last edited:

bert64

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2020
Messages
544
Reaction score
73
ok thanks, and in case bridged port without vlan tags is not possible as by SIngtel, would adding the smart switch (TP Link SG105e) dramatically impact the connection, or would it be rather not really noticeable to have it in between bridged port and google wifi primary puck to take care of the tag removal?

Also to have all that sorted by Singtel before hand would love to send them an email which can be referred to also when whoever singtell technical that would come down for onsite configuration, and to double check before they come that they have done the vlan tag removal from backend if they say it can be done, Have the singtel technical support email address I would use for these cases? Or always have to go through hotline?
Adding a layer 2 switch should not make any noticeable difference.
 

Thobo800

Junior Member
Joined
May 23, 2021
Messages
18
Reaction score
3
Adding a layer 2 switch should not make any noticeable difference.
ok cool thx!

For the switch I would group 2 the following ports with vlan 10: a) have the port for connecting the ONR tagged with vlan10, and the port going to Google Wifi untagged with vlan10, right? Anything else to consider for the switch settings?
 

bert64

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2020
Messages
544
Reaction score
73
ok cool thx!

For the switch I would group 2 the following ports with vlan 10: a) have the port for connecting the ONR tagged with vlan10, and the port going to Google Wifi untagged with vlan10, right? Anything else to consider for the switch settings?
No just that.
 

xiaofan

Supremacy Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2018
Messages
9,842
Reaction score
138
Just a minor correction, bridge port does have vlan tag traffic. Hence your
Google mesh cannot be used
.
You can only used Mesh Router which supports Singtel Vlan tagging on the bridged port.

This is not true. In all reports of the bridged SingTel ONR, all the bridged port is without VLAN. But those reports are mainly for Huawei ONR. But I believe it is also true for Nokia. TS can confirm with SingTel.
 

xiaofan

Supremacy Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2018
Messages
9,842
Reaction score
138
Thanks that would be good if that is the case. Meaning
Singtel can bridge only one port and keep rest in ONR mode
Vlan is not an issue for the bridget port, and therefore Google wifi would work directly behind it not requiring a smart switch
have you tested this yourself / do you use Google Wifi with Singtel? Thanks!

No I am not using Google Wifi and I will absolutely not recommend Google Wifi solution to SingTel users, even though SingTel themselves start to sell Google Nest Wifi without warning the user the need to use Double NAT.

I am a long time SingTel ONT user myself so no need to deal with SingTel ONR.

You can call SingTel to confirm. Take note you need to explain to them why you need to bridge the ONR.

In the unlikely case that Nokia ONR can not bridged to without VLAN like the Huawei ONRs, them you can request them to change to Huawei ONR as well.
 

Thobo800

Junior Member
Joined
May 23, 2021
Messages
18
Reaction score
3
This is not true. In all reports of the bridged SingTel ONR, all the bridged port is without VLAN. But those reports are mainly for Huawei ONR. But I believe it is also true for Nokia. TS can confirm with SingTel.
What do you mean by "TS".
One of my question above is how to reach out to SIngtel Technical suppport. I have already called Singtel couple of times via 1688 and seem to be getting different messages regarding bridging the ONR, depending on who I talk to. Therefore I am wondering if there is a way I can reach out to Singtel Technical suport in a way that the statements can be documented, eg. vial Email. I also tried with WhatsApp but thats only a quite stupid bot trying to make the best out of it by scanning its answer database.

@all: Thanks for the advise and help so far. Really appreciate getting so many helptful comments on my post!
 

xiaofan

Supremacy Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2018
Messages
9,842
Reaction score
138
TS means you, the thread starter.

You can use WhatsApp, it is easy to bypass the stupid AI and then talk to a real person.

For example, I just mentioned twice that "I'd like to talk to a human" and then Shirley the not so intelligent AI will seek help from her real human colleague.
 

bert64

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2020
Messages
544
Reaction score
73
What do you mean by "TS".
One of my question above is how to reach out to SIngtel Technical suppport. I have already called Singtel couple of times via 1688 and seem to be getting different messages regarding bridging the ONR, depending on who I talk to. Therefore I am wondering if there is a way I can reach out to Singtel Technical suport in a way that the statements can be documented, eg. vial Email. I also tried with WhatsApp but thats only a quite stupid bot trying to make the best out of it by scanning its answer database.

@all: Thanks for the advise and help so far. Really appreciate getting so many helptful comments on my post!

You can try emailing feedback@singtel.com, that seems to get escalated to people more senior.

You can speak to someone through whatsapp, i think you have to say something like "live agent" so the bot knows you want to talk to an actual person.

I feel your pain, they can be very frustrating to deal with and you'll speak to different people who contradict each other so it absolutely pays to get things in writing. I had major trouble trying to get them to activate IPv6 - something starhub and m1 just provide by default. It seems that most of their support agents are not trained properly on things like bridging and ipv6 etc, they don't/can't do it themselves and not all of them have been trained on how to escalate such queries to someone who can.

The best support service is the one you never have to deal with.

How come your landlord is forcing singtel on you? Most residences have a second fibre port, would they let you sign up your own service on the second port? If the service is used by multiple people living at the same address, they might not want you replacing the existing router and access points with yours.

Another point worth considering... If the account belongs to your landlord, then it will have to be your landlord who requests any changes - they will not speak to you if you're not the account holder.
 

Thobo800

Junior Member
Joined
May 23, 2021
Messages
18
Reaction score
3
Thanks for the tip on how to handle the Singtel WhatsApp bot to get redirected to a support agent. I asked him about bridging just a single port and got the response "Based on Singtel technician team, it is not possible". Told him that it is and other Singtel users have had this done, and also my ONR's functionality clearly provides this option. And requested to have this escalated. Let's see how the response will be.

As mentioned I would prefer just one port bridged to be more future proof and have sometime for switching over, i.e. if something initially does not work I simply switch back to double NAT on one of the other ports, while I troubleshoot and try again.

In case Singtel really does not want to bridge just single port in my case, I would anyway go for bridge mode. However as I might be facing VLAN issues with the google wifi and not days to resolve it after they switch modes I should have a fall back plan. This would be upgrading/switching to another 3rd party router that is capable of handling singtel vlan, which I can get in case Google Wifi bitches around behind bridged ONR or smartswitch.

Any decent powerful wifi router system that you can recommend below $600?
Here my requirements:
  • Able to handle singtel vlan tagging (Google wifi can't, have the switch but might not work as intended)
  • Decent configuration/setting options (such as port forwarding, ip reservation, LAN settings, DNS, parental control, )
  • At least 2 devices to build an AP network / mesh network to cover the apartment with wifi and allow for smooth handover for the wifi devices (would use ethernet backhaul to connect the points)
  • 2.4 + 5 Ghz support / Wifi 6 nice to have but not required
  • proper wifi throughput, superb not required
 
Important Forum Advisory Note
This forum is moderated by volunteer moderators who will react only to members' feedback on posts. Moderators are not employees or representatives of HWZ. Forum members and moderators are responsible for their own posts.

Please refer to our Terms of Service for more information.
Top