INTEL 12000/13000/14000 Series Alder/Raptor Lake/Refresh *OC Benchmark & Discussion*

matique

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Didn't manage to do long ram stability testing, would probably do it soon, but finally got a ram speed bump with latest v180 bios update on z790i edge. 8200c34, tightened all around.

3034448


Allowed for a good jump in ycruncher 2.5b! Cooling not an issue with my setup (multi rads + mora 420 + direct die). 420w, still have 10c of headroom before throttling, couldn't do 6000mhz on yc since it needs 1.4v and that would pull 450w ish, and the PSU will refuse to supply it to a single EPS i think.

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Bench wise for timespy, the extra +200mhz on ram allowed for TS CPU score to cross 31K, plenty happy with that. Game wise, probably has not much effect.
 

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matique

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Haven’t touched BIOSes after the MSI's version of asus's amoury crate (among the list of best DRAM OC BIOSes), I think it's the 3Gb DDR5 V2 BIOS.

A vocal lot of people are claiming the BIOSes published after had reduced DRAM fMAX, guess that's a skills issue than BIOS!

If Windows Defender is taking a toll on performance: https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/need-help-with-counter-control-1-1-output-0xbbb.296465/

Bios from msi can definitely a mix of hit and miss, before this I was on a much older beta bios that was 8000c34 cold reboot stable. Latest one seems great though, multiple cold boots and it's still holding stable.
 

Encrypted11

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@hlots123 sifu, oic, Meteor Lake led by Oregon Intel Fellows.
If 2 cycles led by Oregon lab (based on the past), Arrow Lake will follow

If past trends are indicative of the future, then Oregon 1st gen design has the tendency of barely beating the previous Israel led design it succeeds as we’re about to see again.

So RPL is the next SKL++ at least till ARL! Come get your RPL-R system :crazy:

 

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Didn't manage to do long ram stability testing, would probably do it soon, but finally got a ram speed bump with latest v180 bios update on z790i edge. 8200c34, tightened all around.

3034448


Allowed for a good jump in ycruncher 2.5b! Cooling not an issue with my setup (multi rads + mora 420 + direct die). 420w, still have 10c of headroom before throttling, couldn't do 6000mhz on yc since it needs 1.4v and that would pull 450w ish, and the PSU will refuse to supply it to a single EPS i think.

image.png


Bench wise for timespy, the extra +200mhz on ram allowed for TS CPU score to cross 31K, plenty happy with that. Game wise, probably has not much effect.
What DDR5 RAM would you recommend today for 14900K? I'm shopping for a new system.
 

matique

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yeah that's a huge L for intel, downright embarrassing. Both companies are guilty of it.
 

Encrypted11

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Very rudimentary run on 2X48GB (96GB, 3GB M-die MGBD) run,
6 Min GSAT, bare sticks, no heat sink yet.
Will try Iceman this time.

MSI BIOS auto skews, ODTs and slopes might not be ready for 8000 yet.
But training till walled at 7600 (no boot any higher) was quick and easy.
96GB OC appears to be hard on IMC, so an above average i7 or any i9 should be a prerequisite to attempt 7200-8000+ tight.

3mDiNRG.png

iRIBmh6.png
 
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matique

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Very rudimentary run on 2X48GB (96GB, 3GB M-die MGBD) run,
6 Min GSAT, bare sticks, no heat sink yet.
Will try Iceman this time.

MSI BIOS auto skews, ODTs and slopes might not be ready for 8000 yet.
But training till walled at 7600 (no boot any higher) was quick and easy.
96GB OC appears to be hard on IMC, so an above average i7 or any i9 should be a prerequisite to attempt 7200-8000+ tight.

3mDiNRG.png

iRIBmh6.png

wah 2x 48gb is indeed quite tough to run lol. Good job getting it there at this point. Going to tighten down the rest of the timings?
 

matique

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Yup waiting for the heat sinks to come in

These are SK Hynix green sticks btw
Getting iceman? tried 24*2 mdie but in the end went back to 16*2 adie, runs the tightest and i'm probably limited by board/imc to take advantage of higher freq of 24*2.

I run greensticks too, one of the cheapest yet never really seen a bad set of greenstick before.
 

Encrypted11

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Getting iceman? tried 24*2 mdie but in the end went back to 16*2 adie, runs the tightest and i'm probably limited by board/imc to take advantage of higher freq of 24*2.

I run greensticks too, one of the cheapest yet never really seen a bad set of greenstick before.
Yup a-die might run the most optimally, Asus for the maximus side has a bit of experimenting advantage from Shamino and team to unlock more MHz earlier on m-die.

Plus the random eastern european expert on the internet receiving a board/sample who also reads JEDEC papers and platform design spec numbers / rules contributing to decoding of the last 400-600MHz above MSI Edge on the Apex, checking the board impedances and how high mhz mem training respond to Skews, Slopes, ODT changes, if the Apex can’t out do MSI like with the Z690 it is a real fail with all that extra budget (money) from that price tag. :s13:

On MSI for optimal ram performance, it might be either SR tight a-die vs DR tight m-die when its training gets improved in the next BIOSes, preliminary testing with my i7 with a decent IMC at the price (probably the equivalent of a slightly below average i9 IMC), I think an i9 doing DR m-die 7600-7800 tuned should be fairly realistic at ambient/WC temps. Any higher might be a luck draw unless the BIOS engineers and OC team figured out more suitable skews, slopes, odts. Oh, and that +200MHz / -2 CAS boost on the Z790I edge vs Z690I Unify :s13:.

With that, MSI did really well in price point and tuning despite the poor inventory turnover (a number of Mid to High tier Z690’s selling into late 2023/2024) compared to Asus milking on the Apex’s halo, cutting down severely on IC costs on products like the Hero and anything under while still selling better than the next few competitors.

MSI needs more entry level products disguised as mid-range that can fly off shelves just like Asus to support its bottom-line.
 

matique

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Yup a-die might run the most optimally, Asus for the maximus side has a bit of experimenting advantage from Shamino and team to unlock more MHz earlier on m-die.

Plus the random eastern european expert on the internet receiving a board/sample who also reads JEDEC papers and platform design spec numbers / rules contributing to decoding of the last 400-600MHz above MSI Edge on the Apex, checking the board impedances and how high mhz mem training respond to Skews, Slopes, ODT changes, if the Apex can’t out do MSI like with the Z690 it is a real fail with all that extra budget (money) from that price tag. :s13:

On MSI for optimal ram performance, it might be either SR tight a-die vs DR tight m-die when its training gets improved in the next BIOSes, preliminary testing with my i7 with a decent IMC at the price (probably the equivalent of a slightly below average i9 IMC), I think an i9 doing 7600-7800 tuned should be fairly realistic at ambient/WC temps. Any higher might be a luck draw unless the BIOS engineers and OC team figured out more suitable skews, slopes, odts. Oh, and that +200MHz / -2 CAS boost on the Z790I edge vs Z690I Unify :s13:.

With that, MSI did really well in price point and tuning despite the poor inventory turnover (a number of Mid to High tier Z690’s selling into late 2023/2024) compared to Asus milking on the Apex’s halo, cutting down severely on IC costs on products like the Hero and anything under while still selling better than the next few competitors.

MSI needs more entry level products disguised as mid-range that can fly off shelves just like Asus to support its bottom-line.

they might be releasing a 1dpc mpower board that supposedly clocks very well and is dirt cheap, but so far no news of retail release.

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Encrypted11

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they might be releasing a 1dpc mpower board that supposedly clocks very well and is dirt cheap, but so far no news of retail release.
Judging at this type of release date (not yet) and way past the standard product refresh cycle, 12/10P Core RPL is more and more likely to happen. If not how else would MSI get that money from the board design back. :s13:

Probably ARL still not meeting performance targets/yields vs RPL.

Further BIOS updates getting me 8400-8600 in one more cycle of product life extension through 2024 and early 2025 are most definitely welcomed!

If there’s no TB5 yet, 240W-PD, RPL is really great to sit on for years. Hopefully there will be a TB5 AIC for mATX+ users to tide through any delays.
 
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matique

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Judging at this type of release date (not yet) and way past the standard product refresh cycle, 12/10P Core RPL is more and more likely to happen. If not how else would MSI get that money from the board design back. :s13:

Probably ARL still not meeting performance targets/yields vs RPL.

Further BIOS updates getting me 8400-8600 in one more cycle of product life extension through 2024 and early 2025 are most definitely welcomed!

If there’s no TB5 yet, 240W-PD, RPL is really great to sit on for years. Hopefully there will be a TB5 AIC for mATX+ users to tide through any delays.
yeah the timing of the board is quite suspect...would be cool if that cpu releases and is meant for desktop. Not sure if i would be going for an upgrade on this platform though, i am very content with my tune and too lazy to tweak it still. Some folks are pushing 8400 on 1.83 beta bios but i'm not sacrificing an entire week on it again.

14900KS has been leaked as well, 6.2ghz ST 5.9ghz MT. As usual, power hog on full load. Well binned ones would probably hit 6.5ghz ST and 6ghz MT.
 

Encrypted11

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On the other hand SS 3GB m-die did ChA 8200 ChB 8400, did briefly 5 min GSAT these and they can be stabilized with a week of trial and error.
 

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Possible solutions for Intel's gen 13 and gen 14 Core desktop processors crashing in Unreal Engine games​

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Possi...crashing-in-Unreal-Engine-games.805728.0.html

Despite the VRAM error that would make one believe the GPU is at fault, the actual culprit here appears to be the motherboard, which is either applying a mild overclock or is overprovisioning the CPU with higher voltage. As such, Gearbox and Fatshark suggested that users could downclock their CPUs by 200 MHz in order to fix the problem, but this could lead to slight performance loss.

A better solution is suggested by Tom’s Hardware and RAD. The high-end motherboards equipped with an i9-13900K / i9-14900K CPU usually come with power and current limit set to 4096 W and 4096 A, respectively. Power limiting the CPU to 275-300 W with amperage limited to 350 A could work without noticeable performance hit, but undervolting the CPU could fix the problem just as well and even boost performance by a few percent while decreasing max temperatures by up to 10-15° C.
 
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