Limited m-ATX motherboard with DDR5 support for Intel 13th gen @ SG?

XiaoFu99

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Hi experts,

I'm thinking to change my child PC due to constant kpkb on been slow (e.g. changing tabs, switch between program), lagging, random rebooting and hang. And also, the current setup is very small and seems bad for thermal (non aircon room and placed under the desk side shelf). It was setup as such due to space constraint and also for primary school online classes during Covid 2020-2021.

Mainly focus on productivity for school work (including Huion writing tablet), YouTube, web browsing and gaming (Roblox and Genshin Impact). No overclocking is needed.

Current Setup
  • Asrock Deskmini A300 with AMD Ryzen 5 3400G
  • LEXAR NM610 500GB PCIe NVMe M.2
  • Gskill Ripjaws 1x8GB 3200MHz CL18 DDR4 SODIMM
  • Asrock Intel AX200 M.2 kit
  • Seagate Barracuda 2.5"/ 2TB / 128MB cache / 5400 RPM laptop Hard Disk
  • Noctua NH-L9a-AM4 37mm Premium Low-profile CPU Cooler for AMD AM4
  • AOC 24G2 IPS 1080p FHD Monitor 1ms 144Hz HDMI/DP/VGA

Proposed setup
  • Micro-ATX motherboard (avoid big casing and no ITX due to difficulty in assembling for novice) with the following support:
    • Dual channel DDR5 RAM
    • PCIe slot for discrete graphics card
    • Able to support M.2 Wifi+BT card
  • Intel i5-13600k
  • CORSAIR Vengeance DDR5 32GB (2x16GB) DDR5 5200
  • Kingston KC3000 PCIe 4.0 NVMe M.2 SSD 512GB
  • < $300 discrete graphics card (e.g. Nvidia GTX 1650 model) - no preference on particular brand/model

Queries

1. I find that there isn't much m-ATX motherboard (no need high end Z790 chipset) around supporting DDR5 for Intel platform sold @ SG. That's based on what I find from one of the pricelist plus some basic search @ Shopee.

So far, I see the following:
  • Asrock B660M Pro RS/D5
  • Asus ROG STRIX B660-G GAMING WIFI
Any other models that I should take a look?

2. Does Intel Box CPU comes with default cooler? Or do we need to buy one on our own?

3. Never assembled a PC with discrete graphics card, can a typical GTX 1650 fit a typical m-ATX tower casing? Or any pitfall I need to avoid?

4. The above setup, how much power should I budget for the power supply? 500W?
 

poooooo

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Productivity could means very different thing if you don't list the software your kid is using, also DDR4 also can have a snappy experience.

Current PC with only 8gb ram, of course will lag when he open a few program and chrome browser.
 

XiaoFu99

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Productivity could means very different thing if you don't list the software your kid is using, also DDR4 also can have a snappy experience.
Current PC with only 8gb ram, of course will lag when he open a few program and chrome browser.

productivity only Microsoft Office, white board, zoom and Google meet mostly.

used to have 2x8GB setup but the motherboard got issue. so have to remove one slot to avoid blue screen of death.


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NightRaven49

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productivity only Microsoft Office, white board, zoom and Google meet mostly.
u dont need a 13600k or ddr5 to do this; the proposed setup is extremely overkill. even a basic 12100 with some cheap dual channel 3600mhz ddr4 will deliver a drastically faster experience than ur 3400g on sodimm.
Does Intel Box CPU comes with default cooler? Or do we need to buy one on our own?
k series skus like the 13600k dont.
Never assembled a PC with discrete graphics card, can a typical GTX 1650 fit a typical m-ATX tower casing? Or any pitfall I need to avoid?
as long it is not those ultra compact matx case (eg with low profile pcie expansion), u dont need to worry. just check the manufacturer website for clearance figures.
The above setup, how much power should I budget for the power supply? 500W?
with a 1650, yeah 500w is enough.
 

poooooo

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For the MATX motherboard can consider MSI PRO B660M-A WIFI DDR4, which has built-in wifi, whether you want to go overkill with a 13600k or use a decent CPU like 12400f (comes with a stock cooler) is up to you. You pay about 200+/- more for a stronger 6 P-Cores and an additional 8 E-Cores. Also, need to top up 80 ~ 100 more for a better CPU cooler because 13600K doesn't come with one and runs rather hot if really being stressed.

You can also reuse your LEXAR NM610 500GB as secondary storage as the mobo has 2 nvme slots.
 

XiaoFu99

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u dont need a 13600k or ddr5 to do this; the proposed setup is extremely overkill. even a basic 12100 with some cheap dual channel 3600mhz ddr4 will deliver a drastically faster experience than ur 3400g on sodimm.
k series skus like the 13600k dont.
as long it is not those ultra compact matx case (eg with low profile pcie expansion), u dont need to worry. just check the manufacturer website for clearance figures.
with a 1650, yeah 500w is enough.

thanks for your tips. just that not sure what kind of games will play in future. so I'm thinking with a better base, just upgrade graphics card will do. easier on effort and hopefully pocket.

for cooler wise, what's the more common model that's easy to get, mount and effective that I should pay attention to?


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TanKianW

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Hi experts,

I'm thinking to change my child PC due to constant kpkb on been slow (e.g. changing tabs, switch between program), lagging, random rebooting and hang. And also, the current setup is very small and seems bad for thermal (non aircon room and placed under the desk side shelf). It was setup as such due to space constraint and also for primary school online classes during Covid 2020-2021.

Mainly focus on productivity for school work (including Huion writing tablet), YouTube, web browsing and gaming (Roblox and Genshin Impact). No overclocking is needed.

Current Setup
  • Asrock Deskmini A300 with AMD Ryzen 5 3400G
  • LEXAR NM610 500GB PCIe NVMe M.2
  • Gskill Ripjaws 1x8GB 3200MHz CL18 DDR4 SODIMM
  • Asrock Intel AX200 M.2 kit
  • Seagate Barracuda 2.5"/ 2TB / 128MB cache / 5400 RPM laptop Hard Disk
  • Noctua NH-L9a-AM4 37mm Premium Low-profile CPU Cooler for AMD AM4
  • AOC 24G2 IPS 1080p FHD Monitor 1ms 144Hz HDMI/DP/VGA

Proposed setup
  • Micro-ATX motherboard (avoid big casing and no ITX due to difficulty in assembling for novice) with the following support:
    • Dual channel DDR5 RAM
    • PCIe slot for discrete graphics card
    • Able to support M.2 Wifi+BT card
  • Intel i5-13600k
  • CORSAIR Vengeance DDR5 32GB (2x16GB) DDR5 5200
  • Kingston KC3000 PCIe 4.0 NVMe M.2 SSD 512GB
  • < $300 discrete graphics card (e.g. Nvidia GTX 1650 model) - no preference on particular brand/model

Queries

1. I find that there isn't much m-ATX motherboard (no need high end Z790 chipset) around supporting DDR5 for Intel platform sold @ SG. That's based on what I find from one of the pricelist plus some basic search @ Shopee.

So far, I see the following:
  • Asrock B660M Pro RS/D5
  • Asus ROG STRIX B660-G GAMING WIFI
Any other models that I should take a look?

2. Does Intel Box CPU comes with default cooler? Or do we need to buy one on our own?

3. Never assembled a PC with discrete graphics card, can a typical GTX 1650 fit a typical m-ATX tower casing? Or any pitfall I need to avoid?

4. The above setup, how much power should I budget for the power supply? 500W?

My kid using 3400G with almost same spec as yours and it was very snappy but with 2x8GB of RAM. She uses it for her school project, coding, online learning, zoom and teams, play emulated games and pc games. But it was a DIY build. To be honest I don't think you need to upgrade.

Flash the board to latest BIOS, reset to default config, install back the 2x8GB memory, loosen the timing of your memory (non-XMP) or just set all to auto. Do use HWMonitor to check if your CPU is thermal throttling. I recommend you to remount the CPU and reapply thermal paste since 3400G could get really hot. Do adjust the CPU fans to spin up faster when hit certain temp too. If the pc location does not have good air ventilation, just use a 12-14cm USB powered chassis fan to blow over it.

oB6uyR0.jpg


 

XiaoFu99

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My kid using 3400G with almost same spec as yours and it was very snappy but with 2x8GB of RAM. She uses it for her school project, coding, online learning, zoom and teams, play emulated games and pc games. But it was a DIY build. To be honest I don't think you need to upgrade.
Flash the board to latest BIOS, reset to default config, install back the 2x8GB memory, loosen the timing of your memory (non-XMP) or just set all to auto. Do use HWMonitor to check if your CPU is thermal throttling. I recommend you to remount the CPU and reapply thermal paste since 3400G could get really hot. Do adjust the CPU fans to spin up faster when hit certain temp too. If the pc location does not have good air ventilation, just use a 12-14cm USB powered chassis fan to blow over it.
oB6uyR0.jpg

thanks for suggestion. I did not do any prior settings (all default) on the unit but I guess may worth the try to see any improvement.

I check with distributor and need to bring whole unit down and subject to down time. and I also read that it seems to be a common problem with deskmini.

the thing with deskmini, they are really small and compact. at times, I can feel the hot air on my knees and calf circulating under the desk. not too sure will affect fertility or not! haha.


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NightRaven49

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thanks for your tips. just that not sure what kind of games will play in future. so I'm thinking with a better base, just upgrade graphics card will do. easier on effort and hopefully pocket.
the 12100 is powerful enough to max out cards up to 3060/6600xt, gpus that more than double the performance of a 1650, so u shouldnt need to worry too much about future upgrades with it. u also get a box cooler that is generally adequate.
 

TanKianW

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thanks for suggestion. I did not do any prior settings (all default) on the unit but I guess may worth the try to see any improvement.

I check with distributor and need to bring whole unit down and subject to down time. and I also read that it seems to be a common problem with deskmini.

the thing with deskmini, they are really small and compact. at times, I can feel the hot air on my knees and calf circulating under the desk. not too sure will affect fertility or not! haha.


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Just sit on top. Settled.

Actually I prefer my kids to use APU or not so powerful system......coz I do not want them to always play games and focus more on their studies. ;)

bAUawuV.jpg
 

NightRaven49

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kinda bored.
suggested build (prices from dynacore):
i3 12100f + msi pro b660m-a wifi366
klevv bolt x 2x 8gb 3600mhz80
msi mech rx 6500 xt248
fsp hv pro 550w57
tecware fusion78
total: 829 for a build that is about the same size as a nr200 (cant really go smaller with matx). u can reuse storage. the 6500xt should be faster than the 1650 while being cheaper.
 

XiaoFu99

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Flash the board to latest BIOS, reset to default config, install back the 2x8GB memory, loosen the timing of your memory (non-XMP) or just set all to auto. Do use HWMonitor to check if your CPU is thermal throttling. I recommend you to remount the CPU and reapply thermal paste since 3400G could get really hot. Do adjust the CPU fans to spin up faster when hit certain temp too. If the pc location does not have good air ventilation, just use a 12-14cm USB powered chassis fan to blow over it.​

Did an upgrade on my DeskMini BIOS from v3.60 to 3.70b. Still, the DDR4-B slot refuse to boot up in either single or dual channel. Tried 3 SO-DIMM on B-slot and still the same. The same 3 SO-DIMM rams were placed at DDR4-A slot and all booted up successfully. Checked the BIOS settings and it ran @ default at 2400Mhz (even though the ram is rated till 3200Mhz).

Anyway, raised a RMA and let's see how it goes and thanks for your tips.
 

XiaoFu99

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the 12100 is powerful enough to max out cards up to 3060/6600xt, gpus that more than double the performance of a 1650, so u shouldnt need to worry too much about future upgrades with it. u also get a box cooler that is generally adequate.

Finally, abandoned the DDR5 and Intel 13th gen idea and resort to DDR4 and 12th where choices are more and pocket friendly.

Final Config:
  • MSI MAG B660M Mortar WIFI DDR4 m-ATX motherboard
  • Intel i5-12400
  • ADATA XPG SPECTRIX D50 RGB 3600MHz DDR4 32GB (2x16GB) WHITE
  • Crucial P5 Plus M.2 NVMe 500GB PCIe 4.0 SSD 2280
  • Galax GTX 1660 Super (1-Click OC) 6GB GDDR6
  • Seasonic Core GX-650 fully modular 80+ GOLD ATX power supply
  • ID-Cooling SE-214-XT ARGB
  • Arctic P12 ARGB 120mm PWM fan bundle of 3 units with black frame
  • Cooler Master MasterBox NR400 micro-ATX casing
Above config @ $1,195 and see how it goes in the assembly in the coming 1-2 weeks.

Thanks for suggestions and tips.
 
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86technie

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If for kids to use, don't really need overkill specs.
You can consider Lenovo prebuild like this one:

But if you have brought already than it's OK.
 

XiaoFu99

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If for kids to use, don't really need overkill specs.
You can consider Lenovo prebuild like this one:
2916213-1.jpg

LENOVO DESKTOP IC G5-90T100AJST
INTEL CORE I5-12400F PROCESSORWIN 11 HOME8GB DDR4 512GB SSD 1TB HDDNVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 16503 YRS ON-SITE WARRANTY
favicon.png

www.bestdenki.com.sg
But if you have brought already than it's OK.

thanks for SIC. bought those components over the weekend and yesterday due to online promo. hopefully, it easier to maintain/upgrade/replace with it.


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NightRaven49

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Cooler Master MasterBox NR400 micro-ATX casing
having handled the nr400 recently, I'm not sure how that would fit in ur constrained area; that's why I suggested getting the tecware fusion. rest of the parts are decent picks, though i wouldn't have gone with 32gb of ram as ram sitting around unused is wasted. how much did the 1660s cost?
 

XiaoFu99

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having handled the nr400 recently, I'm not sure how that would fit in ur constrained area; that's why I suggested getting the tecware fusion. rest of the parts are decent picks, though i wouldn't have gone with 32gb of ram as ram sitting around unused is wasted. how much did the 1660s cost?

I measured the dimension of NR400 and it can fit my shelf under the table with buffer. In fact, it's one of the smaller mid-tower casing. Those cube or elongated shape casing will be challenging for novice like me.

All the items were bought online and I was just been informed that the GTX1660 Super out of stock. I got it @ $269.
 

Phen8210

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Actually I prefer my kids to use APU or not so powerful system......coz I do not want them to always play games and focus more on their studies. ;)

ROFL, later they grow up and become a game addict, then you won't be doing ;).

People are not stupid and will seek alternatives.

1670350748155.png

I've seen some of the people i know also like that, i can't understand their behavior, everyday must play games without fail.
 

TanKianW

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ROFL, later they grow up and become a game addict, then you won't be doing ;).

People are not stupid and will seek alternatives.

View attachment 36913

I've seen some of the people i know also like that, i can't understand their behavior, everyday must play games without fail.

If you look closer, there is an IR receiver bar attached on top of my kids webcam. That is for a Wii controller when playing emulated games on a pc.

I am a gamer myself. I believe in moderation, not total lock down. Sometimes gaming in moderation helps bring up the kids interest in other form of computing. I focus more on building her capabilities and interest in programming, applications and coding. Most kids only know gaming coz their parents are also not well verse in computing to teach them on other applications. Mine do like gaming but that is not her focus. At Pri 3 she can actually grasp CCNA concepts pretty well, build container applications using Docker compose and some simple coding using Python, all started from light gaming.​
 

watzup_ken

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I've used a 3400G setup before, and I think it was a solid performer for the price. Based on the use case you mentioned, it should not be a problem for your existing setup at all. The only bad thing is that the DeskMini cannot be upgraded to run a dedicated GPU. Otherwise a cheap and good upgrade path will be to buy a Ryzen 5 5600 CPU since it's been spotted to cost between 160 to 180 from Amazon. It is a good upgrade
 
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