Loan Shark Harassment and how to stop it - Part 2

green72

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Anybody have any idea how to handle harrasment from LML

Not the right forum.

But LML confirm cannot make ANY harassment. They do it because they know lenders don't know the law.

Their license to get new borrowers can be suspended if they accumulate a certain number of demerit points. Same goes with their debt collector partners.

Report to Registry of Money Lenders under Ministry of Law.

Link here. https://eservices.mlaw.gov.sg/enquiry/

PM if any enquiries. This thread is about UML.

Please Do Not reply further here if it's regarding LML.
 
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Hulkeyee2020

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To those who had splashed or locked, did the police update you on your case?
It's more than a week already but so far no update from spf yet.
 

ltrinityl

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My case my IO updated on me that the splasher caught in about a week.

To those who had splashed or locked, did the police update you on your case?
It's more than a week already but so far no update from spf yet.
 

green72

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To those who had splashed or locked, did the police update you on your case?
It's more than a week already but so far no update from spf yet.
Either not yet caught or I/O not bother. Must understand not all I/O works in same manner.

I hope you don't pester your I/O too much. Arresting the runner doesn't mean UML won't send another but it will cost him.

Just wait and see. Stay alert.
 
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Anybody have any idea how to handle harrasment from LML

Find some time to read thru this.. especially content 3.2 unprofessional debt collection practice

https://rom.mlaw.gov.sg/files/The%20Professional%20Service%20Handbook%20for%20licensed%20moneylenders%20V2.1.pdf
 
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green72

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If you need help to negiotate with LML, there are few welfare organisation that can help you. Please approach them.

No persons are suppose to be subjected to harassment. Be it from banks, LML and of course, UML.

Doesn't matter if the person defaulted on their payment.

He's asking about harassment, not renegotiate repayment or defer.

The biggest culprit are always debt collectors assigned by banks or LML.

They can only go the legal route of writ of seizure and such to recoup back from errand clients.

Strong-arm tactics are suppose to be used by illegal money lenders only. But we read often used by debt collectors.

They seem to prey on lesser knowing persons about the law, protocols and their rights in accordance to the law.
 
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No persons are suppose to be subjected to harassment. Be it from banks, LML and of course, UML.

Doesn't matter if the person defaulted on their payment.

He's asking about harassment, not renegotiate repayment or defer.

The biggest culprit are always debt collectors assigned by banks or LML.

They can only go the legal route of writ of seizure and such to recoup back from errand clients.

Strong-arm tactics are suppose to be used by illegal money lenders only. But we read often used by debt collectors.

They seem to prey on lesser knowing persons about the law, protocols and their rights in accordance to the law.

Yes agreed. I am once a LML harassment victim.
I believe most of the victim of UML or loan scam victims are forced to get loan from UML and loan scam due to pressure or harassment from the bank and LML debt collectors.

Most of them dont know the rights and law for the such debt collector.
At first i thought law is behind those bank and LML debt collectors to do what ever they want since they are licensed. But please read up the rules and the fair debt collection practice in singapore to find out what are our RIGHTS as a debtors as well.

What can’t the debt collection agencies do?
The are no specific laws regulating debt collection agencies in Singapore. The following are areas that they cannot do:


Code of conduct for debt collectors in Singapore

The legal debt collection agencies in Singapore are expected to follow the industry’s Code of Conduct which was set up by the Credit Collection Association of Singapore (CCAS). The CCAS assists the debt collection agencies and the debtors by attempting to resolve their disputes, but it is important to note that the CCAS does not have the power to enforce the code of conduct.
What can’t the debt collection agencies do?

The are no specific laws regulating debt collection agencies in Singapore. The following are areas that they cannot do:

Unlawful assembly

In Singapore if five (5) or more people who have the common intention or objective with any of the criminal conducts listed under section 141 of the Penal code were to assemble they would be considered as part of an “unlawful assembly”, and they would be punishable under section 143 of the penal code.
Intimidation and violence
The finer details are found within the Protection from Harassment Act. Primarily in the Act, it is against the law to use threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour with the aim of causing alarm to someone or causing that person to believe that immediate unlawful violence will be used against that person.

Unlawful stalking

If the debt collector unlawfully stalks the debtor and causes the debtor to be harassed, alarmed or distressed in the process and if the debt collector did so know that such an effect would have been caused he may be guilty of an offence.
Threatening physical violence
The debt collectors are not allowed to threaten the debtors with any violence for the repayment of the debt.

Vandalism

If the debt collector sprays paint on your walls, throws paint or even sticks any posters or stickers on your property, they would be guilty of vandalism.

Harassment

If the debt collector were to persistently disturb, torment, trouble or persecute you, they might be guilty of harassment.
Damaging or taking possession of your belongings
Many debt collectors will try to make you believe they can tow your car away or seize your property if you don’t pay up. However, to do so, they would need a Writ of Seizure and Sale from the Singapore Courts to seize your property. If they do not have this document, they have absolutely no legal rights to seize anything.
Impersonating government bodies

It’s illegal for debt collectors to pretend to be government agents, such as the IRAS or the Police. They are also not allowed to put up fake sites that mimic existing government agencies or to use fake government letterheads in their letters to recover the debts.

Most important:
DEBT COLLECTORS MUST NOT BE THE EMPOLYEES OF THE UML.. the must be debt collectors engaged by LML, they shouldnt call you during your working hours 9am to 9pm.
They should only come to your doorstep with less than 2 people.
They should show you the letter of demand to you and NOT any of your family members.
 
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green72

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This harassment by Debt collectors are as bad as UML harassment. We need to open a new thread on this.

Provide ALL the informations of debtors rights.

I guess many get themselves involved in UML after such debt collectors harassment.
 

Iamscared

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Hi all,

I would like advice on a few things. My story goes like this:

My brother borrowed money last month, not to clear debts or gambling but for happy hour. Stupid right? We (family) didn’t know about this. He has been paying off the money owned but staring the middle of this month I have been receiving a lot of weird calls in the afternoon. Usually 1 call a day. I didn’t pick up. 4 nights ago around 9pm, suddenly a ‘friend’ of his starting calling me. I thought it was scam so didn’t pick up but caller was very insistent and WhatsApp msg me. Telling me my brother owned him money and I need to pay it back because he had to pay his hospital bill. I was sceptical at first but he sent a pic of his ‘father’ as proof. At the same time this LS was also spam calling/texting me. I know it’s LS because the logo on the WhatsApp. I was bombard with too many things and was confused/scared so read/listen to the voice recording. The person with the Malaysian accent said my brother defaulted on his payment and I need to pay back his money. He even include pictures of my brother with his ic and our house gate. I was shocked with 2 bombs that night.

I told his “friend” I can’t pay him coz paying back ah Long more important right? His “friend” ask me how much I owned the ah Long and when I told him, he say is scam, I ask how he know and he said he experience before. He told me as an experienced person I just have to pay the clear amount and ignore the penalty and interest. Told me is help me save money. At the same time the ah Long keep chasing me for money. He also say to me that I can let the ah Long know I will only pay the clear money if he wants more I won’t pay, let the ah Long decide. I WhatsApp entirely in English and the ah Long voice record entirely in Chinese.

The reason I would pay on behalf of my bro is coz at home I have young and old. And I was worried the ah Long would come to our house to make trouble (watch too much drama very active imagination). After being fierce to the ah Long and being firm that I would only pay the clear, take it or leave it, he was frustrated and said my choice to pay the clear or pay the full sum. So at 11pm I rushed down to the atm to pay the ah Long.

Also before that, I transferred half the amount my bro owned his “friend” through ibanking. I never thought that bro’s “friend” is part of the LS. If not how is he so knowledgeable.

Next day all is peaceful but I was like a zombie.. I only slept for 2 hours coz my heart can’t settle and I still have to go to work. I called up bro’s friend and ask for more details and he was very convincing so I believe in him that everything was settled as long as I blocked the ah Long. I also told my bro to make a police report about the ah Long harassment. Good thing I did.At around 8pm again, I receive another WhatsApp from the same LS using another number say my bro borrow money again. At that time, my bro was home and he was very shocked to hear that when I confronted him. My heart was beating fast again and my hands trembling when I hold my phone. I immediately blocked the ah Long. And LS call my mother. Turns out bro gave LS both our no. And my mother has also been receiving calls exactly at the same time I did. But she didn’t answer any. My bro immediately rushed out of the house for I don’t know what and I rushed to call his “friend”. Confronted him since he said the matter would be settled if I pay the ah Long. He only told me to keep blocking the unfamiliar numbers and not listen. Really that night, 3-4 numbers keep calling my mom’s phone. My phone was silent after I complain to bro’s “friend” and I block 2 ah Long numbers.

My bro came home with 2 policeman and we had a chat. The policemen advice was to change hp number for 3 of us and get cctv approval from town council. Immediately the next day (yesterday) we went to change our hp numbers. I also finish paying the remainder money of bro’s “friend” thru atm transfer (forgot my token at work so cannot do ibanking). I let him know and after he confirm payment, I block and delete him before changing my no. I thought for sure the nuisance calls will stop. At around 8pm my bro came to me with a message on his fb messenger it was Chinese “u wanna play, let the game begin”. We were properly scared by then and our house phone keep ringing too. My bro did not give out house phone no and his fb details. We report the user on fb and also unplug our house phone. I even shut the curtains in all the rooms because it’s easy to spy into our house from the opposite block. At 11pm, our neighbours knocked on our door, the LS somehow got their phone number which we don’t even know and call them up asking for my bro and saying that they are my bro’s guarantor. At this point we were really really afraid. And that’s why I am still awake now, too unsettled to sleep. Lucky tomorrow is Sunday.

Following all advices in here, day 2 of ghosting, my bro have deactivated his social media. My presence online is non existence as I locked up all my social media so I am not too afraid of them finding mine. We will go to the TC on Monday, our neighbour also made a police report. Waiting for letter and free food only.

My questions are
1. I used ibanking to pay “friend” for 1st payment. Will he use my bank account to be runner? I know atm transaction cannot see the full account number. In no occasion did I give out my bank account number. Just use to transfer money only.

2. Any advice for NOK who are stupid like me to believe? I don’t wanna live in fear Everyday.

Any other useful advices would be greatly appreciated. Thank for reading my looooong story.
 

Iamscared

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Edited: In total bro borrowed $xxx and we paid off $xxxxx in 2 months! Crazy right!!
 

IwanttokillUML

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Hi all,

I would like advice on a few things. My story goes like this:

My brother borrowed money last month, not to clear debts or gambling but for happy hour. Stupid right? We (family) didn’t know about this. He has been paying off the money owned but staring the middle of this month I have been receiving a lot of weird calls in the afternoon. Usually 1 call a day. I didn’t pick up. 4 nights ago around 9pm, suddenly a ‘friend’ of his starting calling me. I thought it was scam so didn’t pick up but caller was very insistent and WhatsApp msg me. Telling me my brother owned him money and I need to pay it back because he had to pay his hospital bill. I was sceptical at first but he sent a pic of his ‘father’ as proof. At the same time this LS was also spam calling/texting me. I know it’s LS because the logo on the WhatsApp. I was bombard with too many things and was confused/scared so read/listen to the voice recording. The person with the Malaysian accent said my brother defaulted on his payment and I need to pay back his money. He even include pictures of my brother with his ic and our house gate. I was shocked with 2 bombs that night.

I told his “friend” I can’t pay him coz paying back ah Long more important right? His “friend” ask me how much I owned the ah Long and when I told him, he say is scam, I ask how he know and he said he experience before. He told me as an experienced person I just have to pay the clear amount and ignore the penalty and interest. Told me is help me save money. At the same time the ah Long keep chasing me for money. He also say to me that I can let the ah Long know I will only pay the clear money if he wants more I won’t pay, let the ah Long decide. I WhatsApp entirely in English and the ah Long voice record entirely in Chinese.

The reason I would pay on behalf of my bro is coz at home I have young and old. And I was worried the ah Long would come to our house to make trouble (watch too much drama very active imagination). After being fierce to the ah Long and being firm that I would only pay the clear, take it or leave it, he was frustrated and said my choice to pay the clear or pay the full sum. So at 11pm I rushed down to the atm to pay the ah Long.

Also before that, I transferred half the amount my bro owned his “friend” through ibanking. I never thought that bro’s “friend” is part of the LS. If not how is he so knowledgeable.

Next day all is peaceful but I was like a zombie.. I only slept for 2 hours coz my heart can’t settle and I still have to go to work. I called up bro’s friend and ask for more details and he was very convincing so I believe in him that everything was settled as long as I blocked the ah Long. I also told my bro to make a police report about the ah Long harassment. Good thing I did.At around 8pm again, I receive another WhatsApp from the same LS using another number say my bro borrow money again. At that time, my bro was home and he was very shocked to hear that when I confronted him. My heart was beating fast again and my hands trembling when I hold my phone. I immediately blocked the ah Long. And LS call my mother. Turns out bro gave LS both our no. And my mother has also been receiving calls exactly at the same time I did. But she didn’t answer any. My bro immediately rushed out of the house for I don’t know what and I rushed to call his “friend”. Confronted him since he said the matter would be settled if I pay the ah Long. He only told me to keep blocking the unfamiliar numbers and not listen. Really that night, 3-4 numbers keep calling my mom’s phone. My phone was silent after I complain to bro’s “friend” and I block 2 ah Long numbers.

My bro came home with 2 policeman and we had a chat. The policemen advice was to change hp number for 3 of us and get cctv approval from town council. Immediately the next day (yesterday) we went to change our hp numbers. I also finish paying the remainder money of bro’s “friend” thru atm transfer (forgot my token at work so cannot do ibanking). I let him know and after he confirm payment, I block and delete him before changing my no. I thought for sure the nuisance calls will stop. At around 8pm my bro came to me with a message on his fb messenger it was Chinese “u wanna play, let the game begin”. We were properly scared by then and our house phone keep ringing too. My bro did not give out house phone no and his fb details. We report the user on fb and also unplug our house phone. I even shut the curtains in all the rooms because it’s easy to spy into our house from the opposite block. At 11pm, our neighbours knocked on our door, the LS somehow got their phone number which we don’t even know and call them up asking for my bro and saying that they are my bro’s guarantor. At this point we were really really afraid. And that’s why I am still awake now, too unsettled to sleep. Lucky tomorrow is Sunday.

Following all advices in here, day 2 of ghosting, my bro have deactivated his social media. My presence online is non existence as I locked up all my social media so I am not too afraid of them finding mine. We will go to the TC on Monday, our neighbour also made a police report. Waiting for letter and free food only.

My questions are
1. I used ibanking to pay “friend” for 1st payment. Will he use my bank account to be runner? I know atm transaction cannot see the full account number. In no occasion did I give out my bank account number. Just use to transfer money only.

2. Any advice for NOK who are stupid like me to believe? I don’t wanna live in fear Everyday.

Any other useful advices would be greatly appreciated. Thank for reading my looooong story.

Can't emphasis enough on the 3 things to do:
Report, Block, CCTV.

Report to police and be truthful about everything.

Blocking and changing number is a good start. Just ghost these scammers.

CCTV. Buy and install first then pend TC approval.

All these scammers can only mind-f**k you. Make you scared. What can they do?
Send runners disturb you, take video of your home. Order food to your place. Lock your gates. Splash paint.

All these they need resources to do.
As long as you dun pay them, dun fund them, how long can they keep up such actions?

So most importantly STOP PAYING THEM!!
 
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green72

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Edited: In total bro borrowed $xxx and we paid off $xxxxx in 2 months! Crazy right!!

You paid enough. They will continue to harass you for a while but since they already earn from you, continue ghosting them.But they will try since you gave them more than enough so easily.

Get the CCTV install tomorrow if possible even while you go down to apply. Don't wait.

Do both simultaneously as TC approval can sometimes take a week.

Even with new numbers, install call blocker apps. I used one from Vlad Lee. Only numbers in your hp contact list can go through.

Inform ALL family members to call nearest NPC or 999 if find any suspicious person's outside door.

Stay vigilant. Rest and Eat. You need to be strong to overcome this. They can only scare and not harm you. This is Singapore.

IT WILL END.
 
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Hi, usually after the PO takes the statement what’s their next step of action?
I had reported to the police twice but I did not ask them what’s their next step of action.

Wait for UML to strike and collect data to plot their arrest.

Call 999 if you ever see anything suspicious.

Live life as normal!
 

green72

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Most of us that have gone through UML and scammer harassment react almost similar - Hesitation.

Good to those who discover this thread. The longer we hesitate, we give them the window to put their tactics in place.

Act fast and you have fewer sleepless night before it is over.

Because they work indirectly, they cannot physically harm you. But they can messed up with your head until you "zombified" yourself and just follow their instructions.

They don't need to point a gun at your head to take your money. Just harsh words and you crumble. I did, stupid me. Lucky never give them money.

Silly isn't it to believe ALL their threats and harassment which are just false and are lies.
 
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ahoksteady

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Anyone encounter UML suddenly pop up and call and saying that you owe him money? Last week, i receive a call from an obvious same old voice trying to create story and scam. I did the same mistake like most of you guys here, 2 years ago i got into whatever you guys have experience. I went through everything and after around 3 months the harrasment stops. But now 2 years later. Suddenly call my home saying i lend money then i ask which number call you. He mention my old number which i cut 2 years ago. Straight away i dont give him chance already instead of them shouting at me first, i started shouting at him first. Same old threat, this time i dont feel scared because i know i never borrow money or what. So i just machine gun them til they put down the phone. The message im trying to tell you guys is, never be scared of them. If it hits you, block, report, install CCTV. This time im not that same easy target they try to take money from anymore.
 
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Anyone encounter UML suddenly pop up and call and saying that you owe him money? Last week, i receive a call from an obvious same old voice trying to create story and scam. I did the same mistake like most of you guys here, 2 years ago i got into whatever you guys have experience. I went through everything and after around 3 months the harrasment stops. But now 2 years later. Suddenly call my home saying i lend money then i ask which number call you. He mention my old number which i cut 2 years ago. Straight away i dont give him chance already instead of them shouting at me first, i started shouting at him first. Same old threat, this time i dont feel scared because i know i never borrow money or what. So i just machine gun them til they put down the phone. The message im trying to tell you guys is, never be scared of them. If it hits you, block, report, install CCTV. This time im not that same easy target they try to take money from anymore.

Go ahead and scold them until they don't dare to ever call back!
 

richard.hz

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Hi All, I am also a victim of UML harrassament. However, its my maid who borrowed and the UML harrassed my wife. I helped my maid paid off the loan and these scum continue to harrass my wife in the hope of getting more money. These scums, what a pest.
I taunted and talked to the UML and realised that these cowardly scumbags are just overseas operators who will rely on their scared debtors to do the acts of harrassments like painting etc.... Would like to poll this commnunity to see if such a coordinated effort been pulled off on the UMLers. We should hit back at the UMLers.
A coordinated mass borrowing from a single UMLer but without the intention to pay. Its similar to the DDOS (distributed denial of service) attack in the IT world. What is good is that legally, we are not obligated to pay. It will also provide funds for brothers who owe the Legal Money lenders to pay them off and get out of the cycle. Ideally it should work as below:
1) Decide on a single UML. Have commitment from a group of people who would borrow from this single UML and all borrow from him. Of course dont ever pay him.

2) Report to the police on the threatening messsages. The police will help with the investigation and pressure on the UMLer. With so many brothers reporting to the police, they may get more pressure to work on this cell.

3) We all submit photos and messages of harrassers to the police. Can also go MP and pressure to say these scums are endangering our society. This will provide police more evidence and leads as we will become a vast lead provision source for the police.

Such a coordinated attack will:
1) Drain the funds of the cell and also put the cell leader under pressure. UMLers work like a bank. The cell leader will have to take on the bad debts as they are repsonsible for the P/L and the monthly quota. With so many borrowing and not paying, surely he will be kept busy by the “Big Boss” as he may also be suspecting the cell lead is misappropriating funds.. And the police being fed with so much information, he will also be under pressure from the police side.

2) Resources spread thin – if there are so many defaulters ...how to activate so many runners to disturb all people. It costs money to activate these runners, which cause further financial strain to the cell lead.

3) Money for the brothers here to pay off LML. Legally you will need to pay the LML and these LML are also charging steep interests. Might as well pay off these rather than have so many harrassing our asses.

Once police confirm some members are arrested or runners caught, we can move on to another....
Any thoughts?
 

green72

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richard.hz,

Your idea is a bold one but you have to rule out most victims here as most have moved on after successfully able to stop harassment plus they are in the UML records as "defaulters".

For those who are still bold to join your mission, they must know the consequences of putting their immediate family under duress and harassment.

Yes, we know these UMLs only talk thrash but the experience is harrowing for the rest of the family. Then how to explain to employers which they will confirm harass.

Best is to encourage new victims to just follow steps to stop paying and harassment as what we have told. Teach them what to do so they know they are not a lost cause and there is future ahead of them.

One victim we are able to persuade by taking the steps taken by us and stop paying the UML, can be considered a victory.
 
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