M1 FIBRE BROADBAND DISCUSSION - Part 2

bert64

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It also can not achieve much above 600Mbps as a iperf3 client/server (you do not need to run iperf3 on the router anyway).
Yeah this point is key, these devices are typically designed to forward traffic *through* the device, and most have hardware ASICS for this purpose.
Traffic which is sent *to* the device itself is not a typical use case so its handled in software rather than hardware, as the market is price-sensitive there's no point investing in improving performance of a niche use case.

But point is, CPU and RAM are not the only considerations - with good hardware acceleration you can achieve better performance providing you stay within the the parameters supported by the hardware. Stray outside of these and you will fail over to software forwarding where the CPU/RAM will play a major part.

To give an older example, an original Cisco 3750 is capable of 13gbps layer 3 routing in hardware, but it has a 250mhz PowerPC405 cpu. If your configuration causes it to fail over to software routing, you won't even see 1gbps.
 

bert64

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1Gbps plan at $39.90/mth
500 Mbps plan at $29.90/mth

Difference is just S$10 per month or 0.33 per day.
Why try so hard to get the router to perform (at the bottle-neck speed of 500 Mbps) when just 33 cents per day can achieve speeds of above 950 Mbps. Beats me! Especially so called 'power-users'.

Simple, power users value efficiency and want to make the most of whatever they have available.

Also if a given setup cannot handle 500mbps, upgrading to 1gbps will achieve nothing unless you also upgrade or reconfigure the hardware. And fixing the equipment might actually make *more* of a difference to the user than upgrading the line.

To give a simplistic example, if a user has a 10/100 network card and a 500mbps service and complains it's too slow, upgrading to a 1gbps service is not going to do anything for them as they will still be limited to 100mbps. However, replacing the network card and keeping the same 500mbps service will provide a 5x improvement.

Many users are bottlenecked by wifi performance. Upgrading the line is often a false investment for a lot of people.
 

xiaofan

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1Gbps plan at $39.90/mth
500 Mbps plan at $29.90/mth

Difference is just S$10 per month or 0.33 per day.
Why try so hard to get the router to perform (at the bottle-neck speed of 500 Mbps) when just 33 cents per day can achieve speeds of above 950 Mbps. Beats me! Especially so called 'power-users'.

I think the point is that a proper router (and device upgrade) is more important than the upgrade from 500Mbps to 1Gbps. The 500Mbps/1Gbps here is about internet speed, and majority of the internet sites (especially overseas) can not sustain 200Mbps, let alone 500Mbps. You can always buy a good router for 500Mbps plan and be happy with the stable and fast intranet speed (1Gbps or even higher with proper equipment). You can have 10Gbps home network with 500Mbps internet speed as well if you want.

I will say the router recommendation is the same for 500Mbps and 1Gbps, pay for the best wireless router (or wired router plus a good wireless AP) within your budget. And raise the budget within means. And if you are using 1Gbps plan and you are reluctant to buy a S$400 router and only willing to pay for S$200, downgrade from 1Gbps to 500 Mbps and then save the S$240 to get a better router.

I am using 1Gbps for my main place and I think it is useful for me -- it gave me a wake-up call when I upgraded from Singtel 500Mbps to 1Gbps in 2018. Suddenly I found that my long serving Linksys WRT-1900AC (my main router from April 2014 to Sept 2020) is no longer good enough (it will have wireless speed of 200 - 400 Mbps, also having weak spots with 5GHz wifi). So I started to buy more stuff, initially from cheaper TP-Link Deco M4 mesh with power line adapters to act as the pseudo backhaul and later Huawei AX3 Pro to help out the main router. And in the end I replaced the old Linksys WRT1900AC router with Asus RT-AX82U + Singtel Mesh Router. And later I also added a mini PC running pfSense firewall. So it is a good learning experiences for me.

As to whether my user experiences are different or not between the 500Mbps or 1Gbps, I will say nothing much different, other than that I can show some Ookla Speedtest number higher than 500Mbps with wireless connection (say 600Mbps to 900 Mbps). I could have stayed with the 500Mbps plan and bought a good AC router (eg: Asus RT-AX86U) back in 2018 and then be happy with it. Then I could still upgraded to AX router when I got my AX devices (Mac Mini M1 and Intel AX200 upgrade for my Windows laptop) late 2020.
 

ruffruff

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From the following URL.
Faster CPUs are generally better and may be able to increase your performance. But RAM is typically where most routers fail. More and faster RAM can handle more threads, which is especially important is you have a lot of network traffic going back and forth, such as a lot of devices or even torrenting.
I agree with you bro, tested AC86U and AX88U as the main router with the same settings. AX88U (Quadcore) is able to achieve higher download/upload speed as compare with AC86U . And with the additional RAM, turning on AIprotection and traffic analysis, the speed drop is much lower in AX88U as compare with AC86U.

Got a new issue now, i have my gaming PC and NAS in the study room. These are linked to my AC88U which is setup as an AIMesh node. The gaming PC internet speed is reduced if it is connected to AC88U. However, if i use a switch in between, i.e. Wall socket (which is connected to AX88U main router) connects to 8ports gigabit switch, Gaming PC and AC88U connects to gigabit switch directly, my gaming PC is able to get a better up/down speed.

Should I:
1) Sell the AC88U and get a 8port switch with link aggregation (to serve my NAS)
OR
2) Use the 8 port switch to connect to gaming PC, and AC88U. NAS remains connected to AC88U's link aggregation. Haven't test if LAN speed to NAS will be affected. But in theory, if the gaming PC speed is affected through AImesh node, then the NAS should be affected as well, correct?
OR
3) Move the NAS to utility room where AX88U is and connect NAS with link aggregation. Gaming PC will connect directly to 8 port switch that connect to wall socket. Sell the AC88U and use the spare AC86U to cover wifi blindspot at study room if required.
 
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hereiam7788

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I think the point is that a proper router (and device upgrade) is more important than the upgrade from 500Mbps to 1Gbps. The 500Mbps/1Gbps here is about internet speed, and majority of the internet sites (especially overseas) can not sustain 200Mbps, let alone 500Mbps. You can always buy a good router for 500Mbps plan and be happy with the stable and fast intranet speed (1Gbps or even higher with proper equipment). You can have 10Gbps home network with 500Mbps internet speed as well if you want.

I will say the router recommendation is the same for 500Mbps and 1Gbps, pay for the best wireless router (or wired router plus a good wireless AP) within your budget. And raise the budget within means. And if you are using 1Gbps plan and you are reluctant to buy a S$400 router and only willing to pay for S$200, downgrade from 1Gbps to 500 Mbps and then save the S$240 to get a better router.

I am using 1Gbps for my main place and I think it is useful for me -- it gave me a wake-up call when I upgraded from Singtel 500Mbps to 1Gbps in 2018. Suddenly I found that my long serving Linksys WRT-1900AC (my main router from April 2014 to Sept 2020) is no longer good enough (it will have wireless speed of 200 - 400 Mbps, also having weak spots with 5GHz wifi). So I started to buy more stuff, initially from cheaper TP-Link Deco M4 mesh with power line adapters to act as the pseudo backhaul and later Huawei AX3 Pro to help out the main router. And in the end I replaced the old Linksys WRT1900AC router with Asus RT-AX82U + Singtel Mesh Router. And later I also added a mini PC running pfSense firewall. So it is a good learning experiences for me.

As to whether my user experiences are different or not between the 500Mbps or 1Gbps, I will say nothing much different, other than that I can show some Ookla Speedtest number higher than 500Mbps with wireless connection (say 600Mbps to 900 Mbps). I could have stayed with the 500Mbps plan and bought a good AC router (eg: Asus RT-AX86U) back in 2018 and then be happy with it. Then I could still upgraded to AX router when I got my AX devices (Mac Mini M1 and Intel AX200 upgrade for my Windows laptop) late 2020.

certainly, 1Gbps is totally a overkill for most users. might as well sign a cheaper price with lower speed and get a better wifi router for better coverage and speed.
 

eauyong

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certainly, 1Gbps is totally a overkill for most users. might as well sign a cheaper price with lower speed and get a better wifi router for better coverage and speed.
This belief is what manufacturers are aiming for. Started with AX routers will spread to AX clients like access points, usb dongles, lap tops with AX, mobile phones with AX, etc. All older wifi5 with 1300Mbps (wifi4 450Mbps) models become e-waste. On the other hand, the source even 500Mbps is overkill (200Mbps is enough). What a contradiction?

To go for 500Mbps source is akin to allowing the ISP to throttle 50% of the source. Then upgrade to Wifi6 with such a handicap is ..... I don't know what to say anymore....
 
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bert64

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This belief is what manufacturers are aiming for. Started with AX routers will spread to AX clients like access points, usb dongles, lap tops with AX, mobile phones with AX, etc. All older wifi5 with 1300Mbps (wifi4 450Mbps) models become e-waste. On the other hand, the source even 500Mbps is overkill (200Mbps is enough). What a contradiction?

To go for 500Mbps source is akin to allowing the ISP to throttle 50% of the source. Then upgrade to Wifi6 with such a handicap is ..... I don't know what to say anymore....
AX allows for more efficient use of the radio spectrum, something that's very important for people living in apartments where multiple neighbours will be within interference range. As much as the manufacturers are obviously out to profit from the transition, it benefits everyone for devices to be upgraded.

Plus some people have a need for local data transfer, those with a NAS at home, file sharing between devices, video streaming over airplay/chromecast etc. I generate quite a lot of traffic that never goes any further than the NAS in the next room because my laptop and phone perform frequent backups etc.
 

hereiam7788

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This belief is what manufacturers are aiming for. Started with AX routers will spread to AX clients like access points, usb dongles, lap tops with AX, mobile phones with AX, etc. All older wifi5 with 1300Mbps (wifi4 450Mbps) models become e-waste. On the other hand, the source even 500Mbps is overkill (200Mbps is enough). What a contradiction?

To go for 500Mbps source is akin to allowing the ISP to throttle 50% of the source. Then upgrade to Wifi6 with such a handicap is ..... I don't know what to say anymore....

bandwidth given at ISP side is something controllable by end users. 500Mbps is more than sufficient so not a problem.

wireless is having technical limitation therefore the speed is always below the theoritical speed and even after installed there are many factors that affect what the speed which users will get eventually. but users can buy a better wifi routers with better wifi coverage and speed to attain higher speed that can eventually meet the user needs. in most cases, no users really need AX routers at this point as most devices connected via wifi to your wireless router DO NOT need full theoritical speed. Imagine what can be connected via wireless will be your phones, tables, laptops etc. As long as your wifi router can give you minimum bandwidth that are enough for daily activities, that's already good enough. it is better to buy more wifi routers such as mesh systems to ensure your entire house is covered with good signal than just for the sake of going for ax. or even go with the option of mesh system via wired.

dun see any contracdtion here.
 

xiaofan

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bandwidth given at ISP side is something controllable by end users. 500Mbps is more than sufficient so not a problem.
wireless is having technical limitation therefore the speed is always below the theoritical speed and even after installed there are many factors that affect what the speed which users will get eventually. but users can buy a better wifi routers with better wifi coverage and speed to attain higher speed that can eventually meet the user needs. in most cases, no users really need AX routers at this point as most devices connected via wifi to your wireless router DO NOT need full theoritical speed. Imagine what can be connected via wireless will be your phones, tables, laptops etc. As long as your wifi router can give you minimum bandwidth that are enough for daily activities, that's already good enough. it is better to buy more wifi routers such as mesh systems to ensure your entire house is covered with good signal than just for the sake of going for ax. or even go with the option of mesh system via wired.
dun see any contracdtion here.

I do see the benefits of Wifi 6 routers now. WiFi 6E can be even better with the 6GHz bands (but initial batch of 6E routers can be expensive due to the fact that they need to have triband).

Even now it is already good to upgrade your desktop/laptop to WiFi 6E since the upgrade is really cheap with Intel AX200 based adapters.

There are also other benefits with WiFi 6 routers like the more efficient use of the spectrum/bandwidth and potentially better coverage and better performance even for AC clients.

So yes in a way if you have a good AC router you may not need upgrade. But on the other hand, the price of AX routers are pretty cheap now so it makes sense to upgrade if you feel existing AC routers are not up to task.

Once I retired my old Linksys WRT1900AC main router to the Asus RT-AX82U China version (below S$200), I saw leaps and bounds in terms of 5GHz coverage and speed of my devices (AX and non AX). The fastest wireless devices (not including routers in wireless bridge mode) is actually an 2*2 AC device with 160MHz support (Intel AC9560 Wifi adapter for a Dell laptop with 9th gen core i7 CPU) as it can reach 900Mbps+. And of course my AX devices (Mac Mini M1 and an older Windows laptop with upgraded Intel AX200 adapter) also saw greater wifi speed.

AX based mesh is also good especially when you need to use wireless backhaul.

So in a way, I do see the benefits of AX routers now. But of course you can wait if your existing AC router is good enough for your use case.
 

SiaoAngMoh

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AX allows for more efficient use of the radio spectrum, something that's very important for people living in apartments where multiple neighbours will be within interference range. As much as the manufacturers are obviously out to profit from the transition, it benefits everyone for devices to be upgraded.
This. The other reason for the push to AX everything ... some of the benefits of AX are negated in the presence of AC or lower. So it would benefit all when every device is AX or better (when the time comes).

I'm personally waiting to replace my AC wave 2 AP with an AX one, once 6E is permitted here.
 

badkham07

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anyone knows if there is stock for the basic AX router M1? I went down to Bugis outlet over the weekend, and they ran out of stock.
 

kelvinti

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anyone knows if there is stock for the basic AX router M1? I went down to Bugis outlet over the weekend, and they ran out of stock.
Hmm...I thought that the M1 BB comes with the ASUS RT-AX55 already?

I just got my M1 1Gbps with ASUS RT-AX55 installed on the 23rd June.

My M1 1Gbps with ASUS RT-AX55 is working super well at home (Opted for Smart Connect Wi-Fi bands)! Finally Wi-Fi 6 it is on my Samsung S21 Plus!
 

badkham07

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Hmm...I thought that the M1 BB comes with the ASUS RT-AX55 already?

I just got my M1 1Gbps with ASUS RT-AX55 installed on the 23rd June.

My M1 1Gbps with ASUS RT-AX55 is working super well at home (Opted for Smart Connect Wi-Fi bands)! Finally Wi-Fi 6 it is on my Samsung S21 Plus!
supposed to be, but last week they told me no stock, and offer a TP link model. I decided to wait until they restock.
 

twosix

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recontract now can get what freebies? thanks.
 

twosix

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I see then probably not eligible. One option is to downgrade to 500Mbps plan if you want to save a bit.
got free 12mths viu premium. better than nothing. haha..
 
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