Manchester United - Theatre of Dreams - Part 33

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123kidy

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Yup, I agree to disagree. You can only convince me by not flipping prata and shifting the goal posts, which you can't. Let's end it here. End of day, I agree with you that we both want to see a better MU.

Don’t know gave you the impression I did
But whatever I post are my honest opinions.
Sometimes things get heated I might mistype couple of stuff but I’m firm that woody is not the main problem from day 1

Your comeback is asking everyone sack or don’t sack JM
 

apeape

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So Pogba misplaced pass and Bailly errors are JM problem? Shaw fall asleep in game is JM problem? Pogba missed penalty or injured in training is JM problem?

If don't argue based on facts, then argue based on what you tell me? Act like an adult at least. I may not be always right, but I at least accept facts.

once wrong, always wrong in your eyes, but when comes to JM, ok lah can lah... and you're perfect with the facts, so why not right?
 

vitaminc1231

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Don’t know gave you the impression I did
But whatever I post are my honest opinions.
Sometimes things get heated I might mistype couple of stuff but I’m firm that woody is not the main problem from day 1

Your comeback is asking everyone sack or don’t sack JM

Ok. You see we already diverse from 1st point. My view is Woody is the main problem since day 1, without any doubt in my mind. I am not denying JM has no problem or saying the players have no problem. JM needs to do better, Players need to do better.

But what about Woody? Why he is faultless to you? He undermined Moyes, he undermined LvG, he undermined JM. Since SAF retired, we signed 26 players and spent a lot yes. But we also lost 37 players in the same period. 11 players lesser! How can Woody be faultless? How can we say he strengthen MU with investment?
 

vitaminc1231

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once wrong, always wrong in your eyes, but when comes to JM, ok lah can lah... and you're perfect with the facts, so why not right?

And the fact is I said JM is at fault too, just you refuse to read. Talking about impression, look into the mirror, please.
 

Asakura

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but I’m firm that woody is not the main problem from day 1

Again, no one is saying JM has no fault,

for vitamin, putting Woodward aside, he thinks JM has fault too regarding player performances, tactics whatever.

so for kidy, aside from Jose, does Woodward have any fault for not sacking the manager that is not working out and to employ someone who can deploy the right tactic and motivate the players like Conte Emery did for their respective teams?
 

vitaminc1231

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Yup, if you don't believe in someone you hire, don't support in someone you hire, why refuse to sack him?

If you want attacking football, why hire JM in the first place? Because he has good CV?

Our recruitment has been shambolic. Yes managers gave their targets, but managers don't decide how much to pay or how much salary the players get. We overpaid all the time, ALL the time. We could sign Fellaini for £23m but paid £27m. We refused to pay €36m for Herrera in 2013 only to go back in 2014 to pay the same amount for the same player. We needed Perisic or an RW badly but Ed and everyone say 29yo has no resale value.

End of the day, we can spend a shedload and buy the absolute best players and win stuff. Or we can spend a smaller shedload and buy good players and make them better individually and as a team.

To do the former, we need loads of money. Like City. Like Madrid. We won't make a profit, but we will win a lot.

To do the latter we need a really strong club identity, a really strong ethos of what the club is about, a really brilliant coaching staff who can execute said strategy. Like with Spurs and Liverpool currently. Like with Arsenal in their prime. Like SAF.

We can even be both, like Barcelona at their best.

Or we can be not sure which one we are and have the worst failings of both without any of the good bits. That's pretty much where we are right now. Ed needs to decide if we are a Madrid or a City - in which case we have the right manager but the wrong players - or a Spurs, in which case we have the wrong manager AND the wrong players.

Which is why I have been insisting, changing the manager doesn't solve anything.
 

123kidy

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Ok. You see we already diverse from 1st point. My view is Woody is the main problem since day 1, without any doubt in my mind. I am not denying JM has no problem or saying the players have no problem. JM needs to do better, Players need to do better.

But what about Woody? Why he is faultless to you? He undermined Moyes, he undermined LvG, he undermined JM. Since SAF retired, we signed 26 players and spent a lot yes. But we also lost 37 players in the same period. 11 players lesser! How can Woody be faultless? How can we say he strengthen MU with investment?

i wanted to type this part in an earlier post.
PS for WOT last one for today. going home

ok first of all when i question JM tactics and selections, do i want him sacked?
in the past i used to question SAF and his selections too after poor performance/defeats, so i do want him sacked also? do i want a player gone just because he's in poor form and i happened to criticise him? pls go think about it. it has nothing to do with changing goalposts

and all these has nothing to do with him sacking or not which you consistently bring out.

from beginning i am questioning JM's tactics, about the poor season and players attitude.
i think it's fair to say supporters are concerned about the state of affairs now
and are pretty much divided on JM now. even people who live and breathe manutd like scholes and even cantona are quite vocal on this. nobody can say they are wrong or right

Woody is not completely faultless but to me he is the least of the problems right now.
can he do better in this transfer period? sure
should he have dump 150m on bale and persuade him to come? maybe? yes? no?
another 150m on a worldclass defender to come? and give him 500k a week?
they wanna come? :s11:

JM should be taking majority of the blame this season and to me rightly so. he got a bunch of big name players, talented players and he can't bring out the best in them. and the players are letting him down as well by not performing to their best
ok fine, so he is not the one who put the huge price tag on them.
but do you agree that in order for a player to be highly priced, logically speaking he should be highly sought after and performing at a high level at his club to generate interest and high price? My main point here is JM did not get any sh|atty players in regardless of their price tag.

he undermined moist? how? by sacking him after a long run of disastrous results? that's one manager i never want to see as manutd manager from day 1. who wants to play for him? please just go. he's clearly not the right man for the job. that one i can blame the board/ceo for appointing this man

he undermined LVG?... sure he sabo him by appointing JM behind him. but did LVG justify his stay to the club here. did he do the business on the pitch after getting all those big name players for him?

im totally fine with those transfers out except for a few like chicarito. some are total deadwoods like cleverley, AJ and a whole bunch of youth players who make the majority of the transfers out(i think you alittle clever here). they will never make it to the main team.

and my last point. just read a report, do you know the EPL is planning to reduce the foreign players in each squad to 12? and the rest have to be british players. do you know how many foreign players we have now.

something to ponder about if you think buying in players will solve our problems
 

123kidy

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for vitamin, putting Woodward aside, he thinks JM has fault too regarding player performances, tactics whatever.

so for kidy, aside from Jose, does Woodward have any fault for not sacking the manager that is not working out and to employ someone who can deploy the right tactic and motivate the players like Conte Emery did for their respective teams?

im here to discuss the team's problems and hear other people's view on this

somehow or rather people in here think going thru a bad run or questioning a manager means sacking him
 

vitaminc1231

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Why don’t you go count how many senior players we let go before accusing me including youth players in the figure?


Regardless of what you think of Moyes, he has asked for many signings. He got 2. LvG has asked for many signings and he came out and said before Ed didn’t get him his targets. JM came out said the same before. This is what I meant Ed undermines managers, not about how he sacks them.

JM is a good manager, he has won as many as Pep. But JM needs his type of players to be successful, just like Pep needs his type of players to be successful.

Am I saying splashing money means will win? Yes, look at City, Chelsea, PSG, Juve, RM. Both Pep and JM are this kind of managers, need a lot of money.

If don’t want to spend a lot of money, don’t hire JM. Or in our case, sack him. Because keeping JM and not spending will not lead us anywhere. You guys talk about top four, because you also agree there’s no way we can be #1 without spending a lot. Leicester only happens once in whole EPL history. The only way we win EPL with little investment is to pray for miracle.
 

AristDing

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I can’t believe you guys are still entertaining him, his skull is thicker than Rooney’s beer belly.

You guys need another hard truth? Man Utd has only finished in the TOP 4 half the time since SAF has left.

If this is a league winning team and JM has spent 400mill to only be languishing in the table now, something is terribly wrong.

This is a team that can barely finish in the TOP 4, yet we dangle the 400millilion spending over 3 Seasons like it’s a big deal. West Ham have spent 100mill too, so what gives?
 

AristDing

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Why don’t you go count how many senior players we let go before accusing me including youth players in the figure?


Regardless of what you think of Moyes, he has asked for many signings. He got 2. LvG has asked for many signings and he came out and said before Ed didn’t get him his targets. JM came out said the same before. This is what I meant Ed undermines managers, not about how he sacks them.

JM is a good manager, he has won as many as Pep. But JM needs his type of players to be successful, just like Pep needs his type of players to be successful.

Am I saying splashing money means will win? Yes, look at City, Chelsea, PSG, Juve, RM. Both Pep and JM are this kind of managers, need a lot of money.

If don’t want to spend a lot of money, don’t hire JM. Or in our case, sack him. Because keeping JM and not spending will not lead us anywhere. You guys talk about top four, because you also agree there’s no way we can be #1 without spending a lot. Leicester only happens once in whole EPL history. The only way we win EPL with little investment is to pray for miracle.

Moyes thought he was going to get Fabregras and Bale man :s13:
 

AristDing

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I think at one point in time Sergio Ramos and Fabio Concentaro we’re targets too.

If it’s not my own club I think it’s really comedy gold. Imagine been told you’re gonna get Thiago, Fabregras, Herrera and Bale but all you get is Fellaini.
 

AristDing

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spurs spend less than us yet is above us.

There are 7 clubs currently above us, because one club has spent less therefore the problem is not about upgrading our squad?

Like someone else said, even spurs spent 120mill last season.
 

huhster

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all i want is an attacking mindset manager like SAF not a defensive one...since when we became like that...losing our attacking mojo

Sent from Somewhere Out There using GAGT
 

Ch3tah_39

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Rooney lol.. Did we miss him? Doubt so, SAF wanted him gone and brought in kagawa but Moyes that special one, gave rooney life line and kick out kagawa. Brought in Mata and Lord Fellaini.

Ah another point, United got no RB meh? Rafael kenna forced out by ah gaal cause he hated brazilian? And converted Valencia and Young to play there haha.


Somehow, all three managers loved Fellaini. But somehow with him United still lose. Haix
 

Asakura

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i alreadt picked the problem and waiting to hear ur views.
im here to discuss the team's problems and hear other people's view on this

somehow or rather people in here think going thru a bad run or questioning a manager means sacking him
 
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