Robos - a boon or a bane?

Robo-investment made you less into Financial Literacy?

  • It made us more Financial-literate in order to understand more about what we investing

    Votes: 29 50.9%
  • It is a cost-efficient investment tool

    Votes: 23 40.4%
  • It definitely makes investment more accessible to people of different background

    Votes: 43 75.4%
  • Most importantly, i am pleased with the returns!

    Votes: 20 35.1%
  • It is simple and easy to use!

    Votes: 33 57.9%

  • Total voters
    57

Okenba

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Why people think robo is expansive and not worth it?

do you complain that you go outside to eat it’s too expansive ? pay double fees the stall/cook. ownself buy ingredients and cook cheaper?

buying robo it’s just like going out to eat, it’s paying double for someone to help do the cooking(as well as for those who don’t know how to cook). as well as paying for the convenience and time savings.
No need to talk so much about eating out or eating home.
Just two questions:
1) What is the value-add for you as an individual? (Not what others claim the value add is.)
2) Is that value-add worth the premium you have to pay? (So find out clearly what the premium is too.)

Talking about eating out doesn't help answer these questions.
 

tangent314

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In most of these cases the 'restaurants' are using inferior quality ingredients that cost more and passing the cost on to customers.
 

Okenba

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Wow, are you dense in the head?

eating out is exactly the illustration of value add and premium. out must I spell it out in exact words?
Actually, I think you should spell it out. As I mentioned, the illustration does not illustrate anything. It's pretty useless as illustrations go. Who knows, perhaps you think eating out is good because it makes you look rich when you're actually stinking poor and so you're willing to pay to imagine that others will think better of you even though it's a stupid thing to do?
 

dappermen

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Actually it is just for illustrations, to each their own..... let’s not delve further abt that illustration on eating out or restaurants......
 

Smokey.B

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Why people think robo is expansive and not worth it?

do you complain that you go outside to eat it’s too expansive ? pay double fees the stall/cook. ownself buy ingredients and cook cheaper?

buying robo it’s just like going out to eat, it’s paying double for someone to help do the cooking(as well as for those who don’t know how to cook). as well as paying for the convenience and time savings.
Will you pay a restarant 80 cents more for an apple? if u can buy the apple yourself at the supermarket for 20 cents? and mind u, these are recurring % fees indefinitely and the absolute amount grows as your portfolio grows.

everywhere u go, the advice is to get broad based etf, everywhere. don't need any expert skills or knowledge to pick out or cook your dish, at most it is a salad, u buy the ingredients that's all. no need wok skills, wok hei, TA, FA etc

and the thing abt investments just like food is, don't u want to know what is inside before you buy? and if u know what is inside, u can simply just buy them off from the markets yourself? so many brokerage to choose from

there are only so many etfs which are broad based and if u superimpose the popular ones on the robo performance u will start to see a pattern which ones they are probably using.
 

xiaosinsinful

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Will you pay a restarant 80 cents more for an apple? if u can buy the apple yourself at the supermarket for 20 cents? and mind u, these are recurring % fees indefinitely and the absolute amount grows as your portfolio grows.

everywhere u go, the advice is to get broad based etf, everywhere. don't need any expert skills or knowledge to pick out or cook your dish, at most it is a salad, u buy the ingredients that's all. no need wok skills, wok hei, TA, FA etc

and the thing abt investments just like food is, don't u want to know what is inside before you buy? and if u know what is inside, u can simply just buy them off from the markets yourself? so many brokerage to choose from

there are only so many etfs which are broad based and if u superimpose the popular ones on the robo performance u will start to see a pattern which ones they are probably using.
All I’m saying is. If you want to buy you own complain outside expansive like old people usually do, go ahead.

but you can’t complain that you eat outside expect to be market price without any Markup right? People provide a service and convenience , they need to eat too. Simple as that. there is no “good” or “bad”.

don’t go to restaurant and complain they sell chicken for $20 and you can buy the same chicken at $5 at supermarket :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 

JetStorm

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Will you pay a restarant 80 cents more for an apple? if u can buy the apple yourself at the supermarket for 20 cents? and mind u, these are recurring % fees indefinitely and the absolute amount grows as your portfolio grows.

everywhere u go, the advice is to get broad based etf, everywhere. don't need any expert skills or knowledge to pick out or cook your dish, at most it is a salad, u buy the ingredients that's all. no need wok skills, wok hei, TA, FA etc

and the thing abt investments just like food is, don't u want to know what is inside before you buy? and if u know what is inside, u can simply just buy them off from the markets yourself? so many brokerage to choose from

there are only so many etfs which are broad based and if u superimpose the popular ones on the robo performance u will start to see a pattern which ones they are probably using.
If you been in the forum long enough you will know that there are reasons why some people do not diy. Sure diy thru ib or scb may be cheaper but do not assume that everyone can readily use scb or ib as their broker; job restrictions being just one of the many reasons.
 

dappermen

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R151 151/152

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Something food for thought which i posted in the thread 'Roboadvisor-Stashaway-vs-Syfe'

My parents just raised a point regarding Robo-Advisors.

Although they say your money is separate from the company's finances - ie kept in Saxo, Citi, HSBC etc

My Dad believes that confirm not 100% of your principal is parked there and that the Robo-Advisor does their own internal investment into "smth unknown" in which if that investment defaulted, it puts our money in that endangerment.

Against the backdrop that you sometimes wonder - how tf can Robo-Advisor make $$ from just 0.x% mgmt fees ? Hence comes this postulation.

1. Is what i just said fair and possible?
2. What is the fine print within the MAS CMSL that permits/prohibits such kind of arrangement?
3. What does Cap 289 and the MAS CMSL protect us Investors from then?

In response to dappermen

"& YOUR dad may nt be wrong! but so long the Robo is aud by Auditors & Mas - how they use their funds i got no Say - we monitor our pf's performce constantly usg app!!!!!!!"

Yeah i think he was coming from the pov that seeing the p/f performance is 1 thing...but when u want to take out the $$, at the Murphy's instant the Robo defaults.

He did not have a good experience w those kind of Structured Products "fervent marketing" in the 1990s and seen thru lessons learnt during AFC, GFC, Hyflux and beyond. Today, it is why he still prefer the fixed deposit since there is SDIC backing - compensation of the first $75k of your FD principle in case the bond defaults.
 

dappermen

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take out the $$,
Taking out is ez and in within 3 days they will sell off your funds/eqty/etf

robos r rid of emotions and professionals will manage / rebalance/ reoptimise your pf regularly

F.Ds r still fd - u cannot compare apples w oranges, if he pref iron-clad protection and safety: stick it with FD....
Honestly i do not see any major issues w robos apart from volatility depending on what u picked (they have strong protectn w more bonds to be in your pf too)& u must remind urself u r planning for Long term or mid term investmt, not looking at short term, i do have fD but 3yrs

Erm, these r indv stock-buying and i dont even find hyflux anything close to gd at all
Hyflux and beyond.




If many funds and etf can make money with even much lower expense ratio, i dont find why robo cannot
Read more abt insurance-link investmts &Read kger and chris’s adv on robo... https://seedly.sg/questions/how-should-i-start-my-investment-journey-at-21-y-o

how tf can Robo-Advisor make $$ from just 0.x% mgmt fees ?
 
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Okenba

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nevertheless, there are some robo advisors like Syfe that use Irish domiciled ETFs to construct their portfolios.
The video is probably rubbish, but the article will at least give people some ideas on what is the value that they pay for when they use a Robo. At least it has real reasons and not some weird comparison.

Syfe uses very few UCITs ETFs. Very very few. Most are still US domiciled.
 

Okenba

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Against the backdrop that you sometimes wonder - how tf can Robo-Advisor make $$ from just 0.x% mgmt fees ?
StashAway recently reported a AUM of 1 billion.
Even at a rough pricing of 0.4%, that's $4million every year. And I'm sure not everyone is in the 0.4% bracket.
 
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dappermen

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Why rubbish, he been following up with his investmts in robo.... just sharing his returns only
The video is probably rubbish
I dont deny that robos has really very few non-US domiciled ones.... anyway the market pref them, most r still chasing for the uS ones, ark funds too
 

Okenba

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Why rubbish, he been following up with his investmts in robo.... just sharing his returns only

I dont deny that robos has really very few non-US domiciled ones.... anyway the market pref them, most r still chasing for the uS ones, ark funds too
Sharing one's returns adds no value to any discussion about whether or not a Robo is useful.

Syfe uses very few Irish Domiciled ETFs. Its just pasted on and doesn't make up a large proportion of Eqty100 at all. (Which is the only portfolio using Irish domiciled ETFs for Syfe. Not in Global ARI at all.)

There are other Robos that use Irish Domiciled ETFs. I believe DBS, UOB.
 

dappermen

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There are other Robos that use Irish Domiciled ETFs. I believe DBS, Uob...

Cheh u finally state your point!


But the video is sharing the returns of robos(the popular robos somemore!) other hwz mbrs will appreciate it, & newbies too
 

Okenba

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Cheh u finally state your point!


But the video is sharing the returns of robos(the popular robos somemore!) other hwz mbrs will appreciate it, & newbies too
My point is that using syfe as an example to talk about robos with irish-domiciled ETFs is not quite relevant. It seems more of a marketing move than anything. Just so they can say they use such ETFs. But it is not a big part of the portfolio. DBS digiportfolio charges 0.75, which is quite high compared to other robos. UOB Utrade robo might be interesting to try as they only charge 0.5 for highest tier. But bank Robos are less well-known for some reason.

Talking about returns over 1-2 years is a really poor way to think about Robos.
 

s0crates

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No mention of ucits mutual funds/unit trusts, which is something done well for endowus and moneyowl.

Lol if they can highlight about tax inefficiency of us etf, maybe talk about ucits unit trust as well? Why pain a one-sided picture?
 

R151 151/152

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Taking out is ez and in within 3 days they will sell off your funds/eqty/etf

robos r rid of emotions and professionals will manage / rebalance/ reoptimise your pf regularly

F.Ds r still fd - u cannot compare apples w oranges, if he pref iron-clad protection and safety: stick it with FD....
Honestly i do not see any major issues w robos apart from volatility depending on what u picked (they have strong protectn w more bonds to be in your pf too)& u must remind urself u r planning for Long term or mid term investmt, not looking at short term, i do have fD but 3yrs

Erm, these r indv stock-buying and i dont even find hyflux anything close to gd at all





If many funds and etf can make money with even much lower expense ratio, i dont find why robo cannot
Read more abt insurance-link investmts &Read kger and chris’s adv on robo...
hmm ok.

Btw able to share more why you think Hyflux was a bad idea to start with - coz my parents did say - actually you invest in smth like "water" - you think its such an accessible commodity - who would have thought smth like this will end up crashing too?

Yeah well i don have any issues w Roboadvisors. Honestly I have faithfully started my own investment journey since Feb 2021 w Syfe - also coming in w nothing and a little bit of conservatism too.

But since then, I actually believe that i've seen and learnt more than enough to be convinced and assured myself that Robo-Advisors are reputable entities and are not your typical run off the mill fast selling of ILP, or some "call to find out more savings plan with $5/day".

But i think there's much to be seen in the sandwich generation (most of our parents) - anything financial here is always easily approximated to the nearest Ponzi/Too-Good scheme and i find that unhealthy because i also want the best for my family and I believe these are different and more exciting times where many things and services are relatively more accessible than in the 90s and 00s.

I personally spent the past 1-2 years also scratching my head w bank interest rates esp after my POSB SAYE 2% pa fell out of eligibility since i ORDed.

Overall i really wonder, what kind of shitty encounters / financial pushes did SG used to have in the 80s/90s in terms of Finance/Investment Advisory such that most of the sandwich generation have a bad impression of "Financial Advisors" or "Investment Schemes" ? Which hence cumulated to today's impression even in the 2020s.
 

dappermen

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Naise to hear your sharing!!!
nothing wrong w hyflux or Water . i jus dont like the Lady Ceo suckg the co. blood knwg tht her co is nt in gd shape , it is too Long to repeat all her wrongdoings in this Robo thread

there shd be a hyflux thread4 her the Chao Hai
Btw able to share more why you think Hyflux was a bad idea to start with - coz my parents did say - actually you invest in smth like "water" - you think its such an accessible commodity - who would have thought smth like this will end up crashing too?
many of u have filtered water machine @ home too! Flouride is reduced bit but nt chlorine.. magnesium is up by bit! ^ calcium is reduced by so much aft filtering!
 
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