RTX 3000 series thread... (NO SCALPING DISCUSSION)

[watzup_ken]

If you can, wait a week or two more when the amd 6600xt releases, and since it is aimed at competing with the 3060ti, depending on how much it's priced at, may affect 3060/ti prices, hopefully downwards

I am unsure if that will be the case. I am brand agnostic and I can say that with the current demand for Ampere cards, there is little reason for Nvidia to lower prices. In addition, I feel the prices won't be attractive, i.e. it will be marked up from the already marked up MSRP.

 

[ragnarok95]

Haha. That's why I said it sounds too good to be true. They know there is a stronger demand for Nvidia cards, so they tend to impose bundling for a lower price. If ala carte, its going to cost quite a fair bit more I suspect.

Nvm... got other shop in SLS willing to sell card alone but price not nice. I will wait a while more. Anyway my 1070 still holding up quite well.

 

[soltrdc]

Well, if the quality of the after sales service holds, at least you can be sure you will get the card replaced. And hopefully after the revelation, they will spruce up their cards too. If the likes of Gigabyte uses crappy thermal pads resulting in very high VRAM temps consistently, it is just a matter of time before it kicks the bucket in my opinion.

I don't get the reasoning behind this tbh.

some people here harp so much on the necessity of warranty, but when they get a card which has warranty they want to do things that void it.

if it is covered by warranty, then even if manufacturer thermal pad sucks and your GPU dies, then just RMA. That's the whole point of warranty right?

On the other hand if you want to DIY your stuff then why harp on the warranty? Truth is there will be people who mess things up on their own then push the blame off to RMA the item if they can. If I have a company I also will not honor such warranty.

 

[Charlie_Zhan]

I would get that 3070Ti.....

but you won’t/can’t pay the price. :3

 

[watzup_ken]

I don't get the reasoning behind this tbh.

some people here harp so much on the necessity of warranty, but when they get a card which has warranty they want to do things that void it.

if it is covered by warranty, then even if manufacturer thermal pad sucks and your GPU dies, then just RMA. That's the whole point of warranty right?

On the other hand if you want to DIY your stuff then why harp on the warranty? Truth is there will be people who mess things up on their own then push the blame off to RMA the item if they can. If I have a company I also will not honor such warranty.

The purpose of the warranty is really just in case the item kicks the bucket. Generally, I really don't want to use claim warranty as much as possible, and that holds true for most people. RMA generally also means 2 things for me,
1. Down time since most don't provide you with a replacement card on the spot,
2. Trips down to service center.

The problem here is not to do with warranty, but to say that I bought the card, so why can't I make some simple modification to improve cooling when manufacturers failed to do so? These are not 100 to 200 bucks card, but ranging from 1K onwards to north of 3K. And in improving the cooling performance, I feel the lower temps should also help with the longevity of the card, with the added benefit of allowing the hardware to run faster/ more stable. Would you be happy if Intel tells you that you need to stick to stock cooler and you can't use a third party cooler even though the stock cooler is rubbish?

After all, how many people actually modified their GPU cooling, i.e. change thermal compound and pad, and damaged their cards in the process? We hear of cases here and there, but the cases are generally not high since most people are not tech savvy. And if you do damage the card as a result, these tends to be physical damage which can be detected. It is just a matter of whether they want to make the effort to scrutinize the returned cards.

 

[Silencer]

Would you be happy if Intel tells you that you need to stick to stock cooler and you can't use a third party cooler even though the stock cooler is rubbish?

Bad example because Intel will not know whether you are using stock cooler or own cooler as there are no sticker
If Intel know you are using water cooling and its because the water leakage that cause the cpu kaput, Im pretty sure Intel will not honor the warranty too

If you sell your gpu to another fella, the fella do some mod on the gpu and the gpu kaput. He come back to u to say your gpu chui, want to refund, you also won't do it lah.
So its just like gpu manufacturer, they don't want pple to do any mod on the gpu card and then something happen, come and claim warranty

 

[soltrdc]

The whole point of manufacturer warranty is this:

"We guarantee the product will function for at least X number of years if used as supplied."

I think it is only fair that way. Put it in another way, if you didn't mod the product in any way, and it breaks down, you can say confidently that the manufacturer is responsible. If you modded the product in any way at all, especially if it involves disassembly and reassembly, we cannot be fully sure anymore. To exclude this type of scenario, it only makes sense that warranty covers only one scenario: product failure when used as supplied. Anything more is a bonus. It takes man hours to, as you say, "scrutinize" the RMAed product after all, and people already cry mother cry father about prices as they are. If I'm the company, this is a troublesome scenario that is easily avoidable.

 

[watzup_ken]

Bad example because Intel will not know whether you are using stock cooler or own cooler as there are no sticker
If Intel know you are using water cooling and its because the water leakage that cause the cpu kaput, Im pretty sure Intel will not honor the warranty too

If you sell your gpu to another fella, the fella do some mod on the gpu and the gpu kaput. He come back to u to say your gpu chui, want to refund, you also won't do it lah.
So its just like gpu manufacturer, they don't want pple to do any mod on the gpu card and then something happen, come and claim warranty

The example was actually deliberate just to show why people will tinker with cooling solution, especially for hardware enthusiasts. The reason why we choose a better cooling for say a CPU is obviously the same reason why we want to improve cooling on a GPU. The only difference as you rightfully pointed out is that Intel don't stop you from using an after market cooler. And precisely the point, that it is possible that one can cause damage to the processor by fitting an after market cooler.

I am happy to agree to disagree here. Again, each person have their own opinion. Nothing perplexing why people have contrasting thoughts/ opinions.

 

[watzup_ken]

The whole point of manufacturer warranty is this:

"We guarantee the product will function for at least X number of years if used as supplied."

I think it is only fair that way. Put it in another way, if you didn't mod the product in any way, and it breaks down, you can say confidently that the manufacturer is responsible. If you modded the product in any way at all, especially if it involves disassembly and reassembly, we cannot be fully sure anymore. To exclude this type of scenario, it only makes sense that warranty covers only one scenario: product failure when used as supplied. Anything more is a bonus. It takes man hours to, as you say, "scrutinize" the RMAed product after all, and people already cry mother cry father about prices as they are. If I'm the company, this is a troublesome scenario that is easily avoidable.

I don't dispute what you've mentioned, but I think it is public news that a cooler hardware is better. For example, you get less fan noise, GPU may run faster, and it usually also translates to better longevity. Again, these are not cards that cost a few hundred bucks, and as consumer we are already short changed for the quality of the product for the price we paid. Then we need to live with the product that to some extend runs within specs (specs that are vague, i.e. the supposed boost clockspeed is deliberately kept lower), whereas it could have run a bit faster with lower temps. And despite the shortfall in quality, we can't make rectify the issues ourselves.

By the way, I've not fiddled with the cooling solution on my GPU just to retain the warranty. I just don't like it when we are short changed by these manufacturers, and expected to take it as a norm, and they further limit us correcting their cost cutting measures. All at the expense of consumers. From your argument, it is more from the manufacturers perspective, and really the question is are you the consumer or manufacturer? Because you are the former, then your argument only leaves you with the short end of the stick.

 

[Lastwishes]

The whole point of manufacturer warranty is this:

"We guarantee the product will function for at least X number of years if used as supplied."

I think it is only fair that way. Put it in another way, if you didn't mod the product in any way, and it breaks down, you can say confidently that the manufacturer is responsible. If you modded the product in any way at all, especially if it involves disassembly and reassembly, we cannot be fully sure anymore. To exclude this type of scenario, it only makes sense that warranty covers only one scenario: product failure when used as supplied. Anything more is a bonus. It takes man hours to, as you say, "scrutinize" the RMAed product after all, and people already cry mother cry father about prices as they are. If I'm the company, this is a troublesome scenario that is easily avoidable.

I am one of those DIYers who have modded their cards and voided the warranty, and while I have accepted that this may be the current practice, I disagree on the bit on fairness.

This isn't an argument on what's right or wrong, because there isn't. It is a matter of industry acceptable practices, and much of the unhappiness from users is non-standard practice across the board.

• some manufacturers would honor the warranty for modded cards, as long as the cause of the failure wasn't due to the modifications. Why not all?
• the 'warranty is void if removed' sticker is not enforceable in the US.

To go beyond the hardware industry, the installation of aftermarket parts into cars does not void warranty outright either. It depends on the modification and what the failure was.

To give a different analogy, imagine if you went out with friends to a restaurant, and being a wine person, you brought your own bottle of wine to share. Your whole group gets food poisoning, as does most of the patrons that night. The restaurant tells you that your group is not eligible for compensation, as you brought your own wine that night, even if it is clear that the cause is the food. Would this make sense to you?

That is how the warranty sticker works - change one thing, and your warranty is gone.

I get your point about the man hours required if the manufacturer was required to investigate the cause of failure, which is not practical. But this is an operational concern, which shouldn't be conflated with in the discussion of manufacturer vs consumer rights.

That said, I don't expect the industry practices to change much without changes in the law.

 

[soltrdc]

Actually, the solution is very simple.

For the duration of the warranty, leave the product as it is. After all, if spoil then spoil, just RMA.

After warranty period, you want to install LN2, 30 cm fan, underwater cooling, up to you.

It solves all the problems lol.

 

[soltrdc]

@watzup_ken sounds like I'm shooting my own foot, but in the vein of "fairness" as raised by @Lastwishes, let's consider the following scenario.

Manufacturer assembles GPU using X thermal paste and Y thermal pads. Product is QC passed in factory.

User now takes the GPU apart to do own mods, in the process replacing their own thermal paste and thermal pads. GPU malfunctions after mod due to those parts being changed. Now who has the responsibility?

I'm not speaking up for manufacturers. Am just finding that it doesn't square when users basically want manufacturer to warranty their personal mods. I mean if you are so confident that your mod is beneficial for the product, then what's there to be afraid of no warranty? I accept personal responsibility for whatever I want to do with my hardware that is outside the standard use case (i.e. plug it in and use as is).

If there is one thing I think will be good, is that there will be licensed repair services for GPUs. I mean okay if I mod my GPU and it spoils, I don't mind paying a fee to get it fixed. I think that is fair.

 

[watzup_ken]

@watzup_ken sounds like I'm shooting my own foot, but in the vein of "fairness" as raised by @Lastwishes, let's consider the following scenario.

Manufacturer assembles GPU using X thermal paste and Y thermal pads. Product is QC passed in factory.

User now takes the GPU apart to do own mods, in the process replacing their own thermal paste and thermal pads. GPU malfunctions after mod due to those parts being changed. Now who has the responsibility?

I'm not speaking up for manufacturers. Am just finding that it doesn't square when users basically want manufacturer to warranty their personal mods. I mean if you are so confident that your mod is beneficial for the product, then what's there to be afraid of no warranty? I accept personal responsibility for whatever I want to do with my hardware that is outside the standard use case (i.e. plug it in and use as is).

If there is one thing I think will be good, is that there will be licensed repair services for GPUs. I mean okay if I mod my GPU and it spoils, I don't mind paying a fee to get it fixed. I think that is fair.

If thermal paste and pads help with the cooling, why would it kill the GPU? If someone messes up, i.e. use liquid metal, but don't do the necessary protection and end up frying the GPU, then it makes sense for warranty to be void. Applying a blanket void warranty for removing cooler is to me a lazy way so that they don't have to scrutinize the card to determine if there is any physical damage. Are the cards cheap? Are the manufacturers not making record profits?

I am confident of the mods, but why should I be happy to live without warranty for the cards? You mean to say that the GPU is nothing but the core, the VRAM and VRM only? There are other components on the card that can fail even with a top end components.

It is not that you sound like you are shooting yourself in the foot, you ARE shooting yourself in both feet as a consumer. Your argument to me don't make sense from a consumer perspective. If you are just arguing for the sake of arguing, then so be it. You can win as long as you are happy. At the end of the day, you are the one that will suck up all the nonsense that manufacturers impose on you as a consumer.

 

[Lastwishes]

@watzup_ken sounds like I'm shooting my own foot, but in the vein of "fairness" as raised by @Lastwishes, let's consider the following scenario.

Manufacturer assembles GPU using X thermal paste and Y thermal pads. Product is QC passed in factory.

User now takes the GPU apart to do own mods, in the process replacing their own thermal paste and thermal pads. GPU malfunctions after mod due to those parts being changed. Now who has the responsibility?

I'm not speaking up for manufacturers. Am just finding that it doesn't square when users basically want manufacturer to warranty their personal mods. I mean if you are so confident that your mod is beneficial for the product, then what's there to be afraid of no warranty? I accept personal responsibility for whatever I want to do with my hardware that is outside the standard use case (i.e. plug it in and use as is).

If there is one thing I think will be good, is that there will be licensed repair services for GPUs. I mean okay if I mod my GPU and it spoils, I don't mind paying a fee to get it fixed. I think that is fair.

And this is where you're not getting it. Your assumption is that the GPU malfunctions is due to mods those parts being changed, i.e. user error in modding.

But **** happens. Cards can fail even at stock, maybe with even a higher chance since the thermal stress is higher. Cards can also still fail even if I made zero mistakes while 'modding', and these aren't even the dangerous voltage mods like bridging contacts to increase power draw. This is just a repaste and repad in most cases.

And to clarify, the fairness bit was brought up by you in an earlier post. I actually disagreed that this was the correct basis to discuss this issue on. But to put a question to you on your terms, if the card was going to fail anyway for reasons unrelated to the aftermarket mods, how is it 'fair' that the manufacturer's responsibility is absolved on just a technicality that it's not in it's 'factory stock' form?

I am not expecting manufacturers to provide warranty for my mods. I am expecting manufacturers to provide warranty for their cards if it fails due to reasons nothing to do with my mods.

You can say that it will be hard to determine whose fault it is in such case, and I agree. But in such situations, the burden of proof for the point of failure falls to the party that the claim is being made against, which is the manufacturer. The way warranty works now is just a blanket policy that says - any modification, even just the sticker removed = voided warranty.

Again, I have already stated that I am fine with voiding the warranty, being aware of and assuming the risks. But this is not because I agree with their position, but because there is likely no actual avenue of recourse if they choose to deny the claim.

 

[watzup_ken]

Anyway, Battlefield V is free for Amazon Prime members. If you have not purchased the game previously, you can get it for free and run RT on it. =)

https://hothardware.com/news/battlefield-1-battlefield-v-free-amazon-prime-ea-origin-dice

 

[Navillera]

Anyway, Battlefield V is free for Amazon Prime members. If you have not purchased the game previously, you can get it for free and run RT on it. =)

https://hothardware.com/news/battlefield-1-battlefield-v-free-amazon-prime-ea-origin-dice

Just claimed it! Thank you

 

[Navillera]

Anyway, Battlefield V is free for Amazon Prime members. If you have not purchased the game previously, you can get it for free and run RT on it. =)

https://hothardware.com/news/battlefield-1-battlefield-v-free-amazon-prime-ea-origin-dice

Just claimed it! Thank you

 

[elmariachi]

I would not even consider this modding the card per se. You are simply replacing the paste and pads of the card. Akin to changing air filter and engine oil in the car as long as you stick to the rated specifications.

I actually find this voiding of warranty just an excuse for their mere laziness to actually check the cause of the card failure. Anyone can tell you that it is not easy to bust these cards just by changing thermal paste and pads unless you are a total n00b. Or if you try something as dumb as using liquid metal without protecting the SMDs with electrical tape or nail polish. Some n00bs even overtighten the blocks or cooler back causing a warp in the PCB that later on creates issues. All these stuff can't be learnt on Youtube. You just have to have experience doing it more than a few times.

I would personally advise anyone who intends to do pad change or thermal pad change on their cards to run it for at least 3 months before doing this. This is just to ensure that your card is working perfectly well. This topic of voiding warranty is neverending and it really depends. Like EVGA allows it and that is why many people prefer to use those cards if doing all this kind of paste change and pad change. But that does not necessarily make it a superior or better card. If anything, EVGA has the most screw ups since launch including the recent cards busting with that new Amazon game due to EVGA's 5hitty fan ic control units.

There is no perfect card that would allow you to do these mods and have warranty. Sometimes you just need to take a small risk to do these. I have double jeopardy in my warranty voiding as I paste change and pads change + flash another higher TDP bios to my card and I am actually going to go ahead to test the 1000W rebar BIOS from Kingpin maybe tonight if I am free.

There is no right or wrong answer to this and whether it is fair. At the end of the day, your balls are with the RMA unit of that brand. Maybe some weirdo had a bad day or did not get laid that night and you happen to be the one they are attending to your RMA and they can just deny you just because they hate their life. Everything is subjective. If you gonna perpetually live every day in fear thinking about voiding your warranty, do not do it. If you know what you are doing and have experience in doing it many times, then follow Nike's slogan.

JUST DO IT.

 

[KYZT2021]

Do what you want, so long your wallet can tank it got warranty or not, just buy again

 

[tremor]

Actually I understand why people want to mod their GPU. I have asus strix 3090 OC. Run very hot when playing games.

I even change casing, add in more case fans just for this card. But still hot like oven. Now I know no choice. Need to water cool.