Singapore ISP Comparisons

[Fronsac]

I noticed this from the BGP routing, they seems to be moving a fair bit through starhub now probably for cost saving so although they claim that the management is different which I presume still is, it does not say that they will not merge the network if they are doing that while "managing" the network and presumably it is an independent decision from MR to optimize the network. I wish IMDA have built in ability for consumer to break contract when they make significant change like this.

 

[firesong]

I noticed this from the BGP routing, they seems to be moving a fair bit through starhub now probably for cost saving so although they claim that the management is different which I presume still is, it does not say that they will not merge the network if they are doing that while "managing" the network and presumably it is an independent decision from MR to optimize the network. I wish IMDA have built in ability for consumer to break contract when they make significant change like this.

The management is the same, but they are in a way now subject to management by their new owners . Previously they could decide, now they have to toe the line as they have new bosses. That's what obtaining 51% of shares allows StarHub to do - make decisions that overrule MR's management.

It's a natural process in the business world. WhatsApp went through it too - the moment Facebook bought them, it eventually led to Jan Koum and others leaving WhatsApp because of disagreements (over privacy) with the new ownership. While here MR is not quite owned by StarHub, StarHub has a major controlling share that is more than anyone else combined. That is enough for them to make pretty big decisions.

I agree that IMDA should have the flexibility to allow customers to leave, because previous agreements have been broken. However, the contracts cleverly exclude QoS measures, so it's difficult to prove violations on their side. We customers are only contractually bound to receiving service from them - that hasn't changed even with new ownership. This is a chief reason why I think IMDA should specify QoS metrics and bind telcos and network operators by them, so there is more transparency - and proper innovation and network maintenance. Right now it's just scraping the bottom of the barrel in many cases, to overprovision with subpar service for maximum revenue. IMDA isn't regulating anything beyond the superficial, as far as service quality goes. This is ironic, considering Singapore is a very small country and should be easier to manage compared to many other larger countries with far more considerations, yet we have third world standards.

 

[lobukong]

So it's actual very nice of MR by making the promotional price lower than referral price. So that people who recommended MR won't be blamed.

 

[Henry Ng]

The management is the same, but they are in a way now subject to management by their new owners . Previously they could decide, now they have to toe the line as they have new bosses. That's what obtaining 51% of shares allows StarHub to do - make decisions that overrule MR's management.

It's a natural process in the business world. WhatsApp went through it too - the moment Facebook bought them, it eventually led to Jan Koum and others leaving WhatsApp because of disagreements (over privacy) with the new ownership. While here MR is not quite owned by StarHub, StarHub has a major controlling share that is more than anyone else combined. That is enough for them to make pretty big decisions.

I agree that IMDA should have the flexibility to allow customers to leave, because previous agreements have been broken. However, the contracts cleverly exclude QoS measures, so it's difficult to prove violations on their side. We customers are only contractually bound to receiving service from them - that hasn't changed even with new ownership. This is a chief reason why I think IMDA should specify QoS metrics and bind telcos and network operators by them, so there is more transparency - and proper innovation and network maintenance. Right now it's just scraping the bottom of the barrel in many cases, to overprovision with subpar service for maximum revenue. IMDA isn't regulating anything beyond the superficial, as far as service quality goes. This is ironic, considering Singapore is a very small country and should be easier to manage compared to many other larger countries with far more considerations, yet we have third world standards.

Can always email IMDA to complain MR and ask IMDA to fight for you so that MR will allow you to terminate the contract without extra charge.

 

[cyberet]

MR stand to gain by getting preferential rates from starhub, lowering their margin, lowering their monthly subcription and thus maintaining their competitivity. I don't see why any other ISP would do differently if the same situation happened to them.

 

[Kunkka]

1) First double check if you really use ONR and not ONT.
ONR -- only Nokia and Huawei brand. ZTE brand is configured as ONT and not ONR. Please also read the following guide from Singtel.
https://www.singtel.com/content/dam...roadband-troubleshooting/ONT vs ONR Guide.pdf
2) For Singtel ONR users by default the ONR is not bridged. Since you are asking, most likely your ONR is not bridged. Singtel has stopped to accept the bridging request since March this year in general with some exceptions.

a) Brdiged ONR for 500Mbps/1Gbps plan -- only 1 port is working for Internet, the other three ports can only be used with Singtel TV.

b) Unbridged ONR for 500Mbps/1Gbps plan -- all 4 ports are working, either for Internet or for Singtel TV box.

c) 2Gbps plan -- ONR can not be bridged, all 4 ports are working, for Internet or Singtel TV box.

d) 1+1 Gbps plan -- ONR port 4 is bridged (only for Internet), the other three ports are not bridged (for Internet or Singtel TV box).

why would you go for bridged onr if unbridge got more ports to use for internet?

 

[Mach3.2]

why would you go for bridged onr if unbridge got more ports to use for internet?

Because compared to what you can buy outside, their router sucks.

Some people just need their ISP to hand off the internet w/ public IP, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Kunkka]

Because compared to what you can buy outside, their router sucks.

Some people just need their ISP to hand off the internet w/ public IP, nothing more, nothing less.

but u can connect unbridge onr to multiple wifi routers with so many ports to use . dont have to use what wifi router they give mah

 

[xiaofan]

but u can connect unbridge onr to multiple wifi routers with so many ports to use . dont have to use what wifi router they give mah

If you only concern about Wifi, then yes that is one advantage of using ONR.

However, the SIngtel ONR has been customized by Singtel to have very limited feature. For example, if you want to use the custome DNS, you can not set it up on Singtel ONR. It will not support more advanced function like those from Asus. Its features can not even match the sub S$100 routers like Xiaomi AX3000 or TP-Link Archer AX10. And of course It can not match the around S$100 router like Asus RT-AX55 or TP-Link Archer AX72 (dumped by M1 users in Carousell).

The major problem is that it will become the main router of your home network. If you have a good router, you have two choices.
1) set it up in AP mode to avoid Double NAT, losing majorty of the nice features of the router.
2) set in up in Router mode and live with Double NAT, losing some features like VPN servers and some other features.

Double NAT: it may not be an issue for web browsing or streaming, but may cause problem for things like gaming or remote access back to home.
https://kb.netgear.com/30187/My-NET...causing-double-NAT-problems-How-do-I-fix-them

 

[Kunkka]

If you only concern about Wifi, then yes that is one advantage of using ONR.

However, the SIngtel ONR has been customized by Singtel to have very limited feature. For example, if you want to use the custome DNS, you can not set it up on Singtel ONR. It will not support more advanced function like those from Asus. Its features can not even match the sub S$100 routers like Xiaomi AX3000 or TP-Link Archer AX10. And of course It can not match the around S$100 router like Asus RT-AX55 or TP-Link Archer AX72 (dumped by M1 users in Carousell).

The major problem is that it will become the main router of your home network. If you have a good router, you have two choices.
1) set it up in AP mode to avoid Double NAT, losing majorty of the nice features of the router.
2) set in up in Router mode and live with Double NAT, losing some features like VPN servers and some other features.

Double NAT: it may not be an issue for web browsing or streaming, but may cause problem for things like gaming or remote access back to home.
https://kb.netgear.com/30187/My-NET...causing-double-NAT-problems-How-do-I-fix-them

Hmm. That makes me confused . It doesn't have a WiFi network. The only network I see in wifi is my connected routers

 

[xiaofan]

Hmm. That makes me confused . It doesn't have a WiFi network. The only network I see in wifi is my connected routers

I mean if you have multipe APs (eg: Mesh solution), having the ONR can be an advantage if you only care for wireless performance. Basically the main advantage of ONR is to save one router (eg: in the DB box) as it is a router.

Just an example, for new BTO HDB, if you only care about wireless performance, and you have 3-nodes of TP-Link Deco X20.

ONR user -- you can put the ONR in the DB box, 3 nodes in the living room, master room and bedroom.

ONT user -- you may have to put one node in the DB box, and you may need to add one switch in the DB box, then one node in the living room and one in master room, resulting in less coverage compare to the first solution.

But to me it is worth to have an aditional router in the DB box than using the lousy Singtel ONR as the main router.

I do understand many users may be fine with Singtel ONR and the Singtel provided wireless router/AP since they only do simple web browsing and media streaming, and they may not know the limitations. But you do lose the choice. So for the new sign-up, I will recommend to avoid Singtel (except the niche Singtel 1+1 plan, only for niche use cases). Now you are in this forum, hopefully at least you know the limitations of Singtel ONR.

For example, I will recommend many users here to use alternative DNS and not to use ISP DNS. I recommend using Cloudflare Family Protect DNS: 1.1.1.2 (malware protection) or 1.1.1.3 (malware and adult content protection). You can not do that with Singtel ONR -- you have to set it up per device.

Ref: https://blog.cloudflare.com/introducing-1-1-1-1-for-families/

There are also privacy/security concerns about the Singtel ONR as it is remotely managed by Singtel.

 

[gpgtmeowmeow]

Just bought a Linksys E8450 from Black Friday sale, but still deciding whether to stay with Singtel (legacy ONT 1Gbps) or swap to Viewqwest 1Gbps as there is a promo going on.

 

[xiaofan]

Just bought a Linksys E8450 from Black Friday sale, but still deciding whether to stay with Singtel (legacy ONT 1Gbps) or swap to Viewqwest 1Gbps as there is a promo going on.

I would not recommend Viewquest at all as it is unstable -- you just read their thread and you will see many posts are talking about one thng -- Down here, Down there.

You can stay with Singtel, or you can consider switching to M1/Starhub if you want to try out other ISPs.

 

[gpgtmeowmeow]

I would not recommend Viewquest at all as it is unstable -- you just read their thread and you will see many posts are talking about one thng -- Down here, Down there.

You can stay with Singtel, or you can consider switching to M1/Starhub if you want to try out other ISPs.

Thanks xiaofan, I have been stalking this thread for awhile so I've seen the stability issues for Viewqwest. Singtel is indeed stable now, unlike 10 years ago.

Have also personally heard from a friend that Viewqwest is stable and he runs it off an Asus RT-AX86U with SecureNet and FreedomDNS cancelled.

The only difference is Singtel requires VLAN tagging on 10 and 20, which I could deal with it I guess.

 

[Henry Ng]

I mean if you have multipe APs (eg: Mesh solution), having the ONR can be an advantage if you only care for wireless performance. Basically the main advantage of ONR is to save one router (eg: in the DB box) as it is a router.

Just an example, for new BTO HDB, if you only care about wireless performance, and you have 3-nodes of TP-Link Deco X20.

ONR user -- you can put the ONR in the DB box, 3 nodes in the living room, master room and bedroom.

ONT user -- you may have to put one node in the DB box, and you may need to add one switch in the DB box, then one node in the living room and one in master room, resulting in less coverage compare to the first solution.

But to me it is worth to have an aditional router in the DB box than using the lousy Singtel ONR as the main router.

I do understand many users may be fine with Singtel ONR and the Singtel provided wireless router/AP since they only do simple web browsing and media streaming, and they may not know the limitations. But you do lose the choice. So for the new sign-up, I will recommend to avoid Singtel (except the niche Singtel 1+1 plan, only for niche use cases). Now you are in this forum, hopefully at least you know the limitations of Singtel ONR.

For example, I will recommend many users here to use alternative DNS and not to use ISP DNS. I recommend using Cloudflare Family Protect DNS: 1.1.1.2 (malware protection) or 1.1.1.3 (malware and adult content protection). You can not do that with Singtel ONR -- you have to set it up per device.

Ref: https://blog.cloudflare.com/introducing-1-1-1-1-for-families/

There are also privacy/security concerns about the Singtel ONR as it is remotely managed by Singtel.

Why you recommend cloudflare DNS? Any benefit for cloudflare DNS?

 

[xiaofan]

Why you recommend cloudflare DNS? Any benefit for cloudflare DNS?

Did you even read my post before replying?


1.1.1.1 for Families has two default options: one that blocks malware and the other that blocks malware and adult content.

https://blog.cloudflare.com/introducing-1-1-1-1-for-families/

 

[Iceman127]

Looking for some advice.
I will be using my own Asus router or even Asus mesh.
From what I've gathered Singtel is definitely out because of ONR even though it's the most stable network.
I believe the next 2 best will be Starhub and Myrepublic with ONT.
My usage will be normal non hardcore gaming, web and streaming video use.

Other then price difference is there anything I should look out for in terms of security?

 

[xiaofan]

Looking for some advice.
I will be using my own Asus router or even Asus mesh.
From what I've gathered Singtel is definitely out because of ONR even though it's the most stable network.
I believe the next 2 best will be Starhub and Myrepublic with ONT.
My usage will be normal non hardcore gaming, web and streaming video use.

Other then price difference is there anything I should look out for in terms of security?

I will go for Starhub and not MyRepublic if you want to choose between the two, since MyRepublic is now under Starhub and it uses CGNAT. The other choice is M1.

As for secuity all three should be similar. It is up to you to implement good security for your home network. The ISPs are pretty much the same even some of them offer add-on subscriptions for home network security (in general not very good solutions).

 

[xiaofan]

Update the first post to include the following point.

6) DO NOT USE the FREE BUNDLED ROUTER as the base for choosing ISPs. In general, it is better to buy your own router as the free router is not really good. Or in some case, buy the higher end router from the ISP if it is a good deal (eg: M1 GT-AX6000 is a superb deal). But anyway, this is just my personal opionion and many are still using the free router as the base for choosing ISPs becuase they may rely on ISP to provide the technical support (even though the technical support is in general not good).

 

[kashix]

Update the first post to include the following point.

6) DO NOT USE the FREE BUNDLED ROUTER as the base for choosing ISPs. In general, it is better to buy your own router as the free router is not really good. Or in some case, buy the higher end router from the ISP if it is a good deal (eg: M1 GT-AX6000 is a superb deal). But anyway, this is just my personal opionion and many are still using the free router as the base for choosing ISPs becuase they may rely on ISP to provide the technical support (even though the technical support is in general not good).

+1, do not use the bundled router as consideration for the isp, big mistake