Your ISP's DHCP does not function properly - Singtel / Asus RT-AX86U

ogion56

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My Internet connection got cut off suddenly one night, and :
- I was unable to access the Router via the admin page (no response).
- Even a soft reset did nothing.
- Old router model : Asus AC3200

Since the Internet connection works when plugging directly into the ONT, I assumed that the issue was with the router that decided to die suddenly and with the WAN led showing a Red light.

+

Bought a new Router (AX86U) and proceeded to install as per the quick set up instructions from the Asus website for Singtel connection via ONT.

Everything goes smoothly until the 'Singtel-Other' profile is selected and the router reboots to initialise and install the settings.
The Internet connection is detected (as the router is able to access the firmware update server) - but the moment the router restarts, the WAN led shows Red (meaning Internet connection not available).
The router admin page then shows the message "Your ISP's DHCP does not function properly".

Tried various solutions from my research :
- multiple loops of resetting and restarting both ONT and router
- multiple resets and reinstalling of the router
- amending various settings under WAN DHCP (changing the DHCP query to normal or continuous / Default : aggressive)
- called singtel, which they were unable to help at all on a Friday night. Could only advise that a member of their backend technical team would need to contact me due to my grandfathered unlimited fibre plan with ONT.

After a while night of troubleshooting, I decided to try forgoing the Asus recommended settings for Singtel.
i.e. Putting everything as Automatic, and with NO special ISP profile. Do not select Singtel - Other.

And the installation completed smoothly with my Internet connection online.

Thankfully I do not use MIO TV, so the lack of the profile for Port 4 as the MIO TV port - did not affect me.

But I wanted to post my experiences in case someone else is facing the same issues - at least there is some workaround solution in the meantime to get the Internet connection working.

However, it looks like the Singtel - Other profile, which had been working on my old router for 7 years just suddenly stopped working with Singtel.

Does anyone else have such experiences?

Is there something in the profile that is causing a conflict with the Singtel backend?

Appreciate if anyone could suggest some manual settings for VLAN tagging to try and get it to work like the profile did previously.

P.S.
I also discovered that there is a hard reset function and tried that on my old router - it starts working.
But the fact that the Internet connection and the router both going unresponsive, happened at the same time suddenly, hints that I suspect singtel had changed something in their backend that suddenly killed the profile, and that may have caused the router to hang.
Perhaps, a push to get all customers to migrate towards the ONR?

Thanks all and apologies for the lengthy post.
 

xiaofan

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If you are still using the Singtel Unlimited Fibre plan, DO NOT use any VLAN profile. It is a special plan where you:
1) use ONT
2) no SingTel TV
3) use your own router
4) NO VLAN needed
 

Apex

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Didn’t know singtel still have another old special unlimited fiber plan on ONT without VLAN.

This singtel is really messy a lot different Profile and setup. When most user just want internet access only. (I mean a small group has mio tv but most ppl are without mio tv).
 

xiaofan

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Didn’t know singtel still have another old special unlimited fiber plan on ONT without VLAN.
This singtel is really messy a lot different Profile and setup. When most user just want internet access only. (I mean a small group has mio tv but most ppl are without mio tv).

This unlimited plan has long gone, but some users stick to it. And often they will get a surprise when they recontract to the normal 1Gbps plan (cheaper, with SingTel VLAN) and got no Internet since they did not need VLAN previously.
 

ogion56

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If you are still using the Singtel Unlimited Fibre plan, DO NOT use any VLAN profile. It is a special plan where you:
1) use ONT
2) no SingTel TV
3) use your own router
4) NO VLAN needed

Thanks, somehow over the years all the instructions from Asus was to use the Singtel-other profile and it was working fine.

Just suddenly the Internet got cut off and the router hung - which is puzzling.

Are the profiles only meant for the normal 1gbps plans with ONR, after setting to bridge mode?
 

ogion56

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This unlimited plan has long gone, but some users stick to it. And often they will get a surprise when they recontract to the normal 1Gbps plan (cheaper, with SingTel VLAN) and got no Internet since they did not need VLAN previously.

Yes, the latest offers are much cheaper, so I am considering to switch.

But the promise of no throttling and ONT allowing me to use my own router still entices me to keep it.
 

xiaofan

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Thanks, somehow over the years all the instructions from Asus was to use the Singtel-other profile and it was working fine.
Just suddenly the Internet got cut off and the router hung - which is puzzling.
Are the profiles only meant for the normal 1gbps plans with ONR, after setting to bridge mode?

No, the VLAN profile is only for normal SingTel 500Mbps or 1Gbps with ONT.

It is not needed for ONR users, no matter bridged or not.

It can not be true that you were using the VLAN profile with the Unlimited Fibre Plan, it will not work. Maybe you set and forgot long time ago.
 

xiaofan

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Yes, the latest offers are much cheaper, so I am considering to switch.
But the promise of no throttling and ONT allowing me to use my own router still entices me to keep it.

Yes I understand.

You should still be able to hold on the ONT if you change to normal 1Gbps plan. But yes you will be subject to throttling with the normal 1Gbps plan.
 

zhangwei

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My Internet connection got cut off suddenly one night, and :
- I was unable to access the Router via the admin page (no response).
- Even a soft reset did nothing.
- Old router model : Asus AC3200

Since the Internet connection works when plugging directly into the ONT, I assumed that the issue was with the router that decided to die suddenly and with the WAN led showing a Red light.

+

Bought a new Router (AX86U) and proceeded to install as per the quick set up instructions from the Asus website for Singtel connection via ONT.

Everything goes smoothly until the 'Singtel-Other' profile is selected and the router reboots to initialise and install the settings.
The Internet connection is detected (as the router is able to access the firmware update server) - but the moment the router restarts, the WAN led shows Red (meaning Internet connection not available).
The router admin page then shows the message "Your ISP's DHCP does not function properly".

Tried various solutions from my research :
- multiple loops of resetting and restarting both ONT and router
- multiple resets and reinstalling of the router
- amending various settings under WAN DHCP (changing the DHCP query to normal or continuous / Default : aggressive)
- called singtel, which they were unable to help at all on a Friday night. Could only advise that a member of their backend technical team would need to contact me due to my grandfathered unlimited fibre plan with ONT.

After a while night of troubleshooting, I decided to try forgoing the Asus recommended settings for Singtel.
i.e. Putting everything as Automatic, and with NO special ISP profile. Do not select Singtel - Other.

And the installation completed smoothly with my Internet connection online.

Thankfully I do not use MIO TV, so the lack of the profile for Port 4 as the MIO TV port - did not affect me.

But I wanted to post my experiences in case someone else is facing the same issues - at least there is some workaround solution in the meantime to get the Internet connection working.

However, it looks like the Singtel - Other profile, which had been working on my old router for 7 years just suddenly stopped working with Singtel.

Does anyone else have such experiences?

Is there something in the profile that is causing a conflict with the Singtel backend?

Appreciate if anyone could suggest some manual settings for VLAN tagging to try and get it to work like the profile did previously.

P.S.
I also discovered that there is a hard reset function and tried that on my old router - it starts working.
But the fact that the Internet connection and the router both going unresponsive, happened at the same time suddenly, hints that I suspect singtel had changed something in their backend that suddenly killed the profile, and that may have caused the router to hang.
Perhaps, a push to get all customers to migrate towards the ONR?

Thanks all and apologies for the lengthy post.

I upgraded my Singtel broadband to 1+1 plan with AX86U. They changed my ONT with ONT, and I connect AX86U to the bridged port. I had almost exact same experience as you. When the technician set up the router, profile "Singtel Others" can still be configured, although TV seems to be not working but we did not have more time to test. After firmware update, AX86U could not get Internet, and I found that "Singtel Other" is the culprit, also I found that I have to choose "Dynamic IP" for WAN instead of PPPoE.

Unfortunately I have Singtel TV. Now I have to connect set-top box to one of the "router port" on ONR, which wasted one Ethernet socket in my home. Does anyone know a solution to make Singtel TV working with AX86U again?

Thanks!
 

xonix

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I upgraded my Singtel broadband to 1+1 plan with AX86U. They changed my ONT with ONT, and I connect AX86U to the bridged port. I had almost exact same experience as you. When the technician set up the router, profile "Singtel Others" can still be configured, although TV seems to be not working but we did not have more time to test. After firmware update, AX86U could not get Internet, and I found that "Singtel Other" is the culprit, also I found that I have to choose "Dynamic IP" for WAN instead of PPPoE.

Unfortunately I have Singtel TV. Now I have to connect set-top box to one of the "router port" on ONR, which wasted one Ethernet socket in my home. Does anyone know a solution to make Singtel TV working with AX86U again?

Thanks!
I think that's the way it's meant to work on the 1+1 plan.

Do you still have the SingTel router ? If yes, just connect ONR > singtel router > mio tv

You can retain your AX86U on the existing bridged port.
 
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xiaofan

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Unfortunately I have Singtel TV. Now I have to connect set-top box to one of the "router port" on ONR, which wasted one Ethernet socket in my home. Does anyone know a solution to make Singtel TV working with AX86U again?

Thanks!

Nothing can be done from your side. The whole idea of 1+1 plan is like the following.
1) RT-AX86U is to be connected to the bridged port, no VLAN required, no Singtel TV box is possible here.
2) You have to connect your Singtel TV box to the unbridged port. You can also using existing Singtel router.
Eg:
2a) ONR unbridged port -- Singtel TV box
2b) ONR unbridged port -- Singtel AC Plus /AC Elite/ Singtel Mesh Router /etc (they run in AP mode) -- Singtel TV box
 

zhangwei

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Thanks @xonix @xiaofan

Yes I'm currently connecting as:
2a) ONR unbridged port -- Singtel TV box

But that wasted one Ethernet line from DB to TV console.

1) RT-AX86U is to be connected to the bridged port, no VLAN required, no Singtel TV box is possible here.

Do you think it's possible if I connect a smart switch under RT-AX86U and configure VLAN so as to make Singtel TV work?
ONR bridged port -> RT-AX86U -> Smart Switch with VLAN -> Singtel TV box

or if Asus will release a fix/feature to make Singtel TV work?
 

firesong

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Thanks @xonix @xiaofan

Yes I'm currently connecting as:
2a) ONR unbridged port -- Singtel TV box

But that wasted one Ethernet line from DB to TV console.



Do you think it's possible if I connect a smart switch under RT-AX86U and configure VLAN so as to make Singtel TV work?
ONR bridged port -> RT-AX86U -> Smart Switch with VLAN -> Singtel TV box

or if Asus will release a fix/feature to make Singtel TV work?
Since you've switched to the ONR, it is by design that the TV port is on the ONR itself, not routed through the router. In the past, it was through the router as Singtel relied on VLANs to route their signals. Pros and cons of each approach - I prefer the VLAN method myself because it allows for more flexibility, but I'm prepared to configure networks. Most customers won't bother to learn what a VLAN is and how to set it up properly but rather just plug in a cable.

You could consider redeploying the "wasted" ethernet line to connect the devices around the TV console via cable by using a switch to branch out to other devices. That's what I do. Nothing is ever wasted. ;) Then again, I think this way because I try to reduce dependency on wireless for infrastructure-type devices. Relocated my NAS, Linux SBC server, and network printer to the TV console area to utilise the extra ports on the switch and make use of the space there.

As for a perceived shortage of ports, a cheap 8-port switch can be had for under $30. Or go with the semi-smart TP-Link SG108 since it's still relatively inexpensive and allows vlan tagging.
 

zhangwei

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Since you've switched to the ONR, it is by design that the TV port is on the ONR itself, not routed through the router. In the past, it was through the router as Singtel relied on VLANs to route their signals. Pros and cons of each approach - I prefer the VLAN method myself because it allows for more flexibility, but I'm prepared to configure networks. Most customers won't bother to learn what a VLAN is and how to set it up properly but rather just plug in a cable.

You could consider redeploying the "wasted" ethernet line to connect the devices around the TV console via cable by using a switch to branch out to other devices. That's what I do. Nothing is ever wasted. ;) Then again, I think this way because I try to reduce dependency on wireless for infrastructure-type devices. Relocated my NAS, Linux SBC server, and network printer to the TV console area to utilise the extra ports on the switch and make use of the space there.

As for a perceived shortage of ports, a cheap 8-port switch can be had for under $30. Or go with the semi-smart TP-Link SG108 since it's still relatively inexpensive and allows vlan tagging.

Thanks for sharing! Though I'm still a bit doubtful on "the TV port is on the ONR itself". The technician told me I can plug TV into any of the remaining un-bridged ports. And in the Nokia ONR WAN settings, I can see there are 3 WAN connections, all have VLAN enabled. First one has INTERNET and TR-069 service checked, second one has IPTV service checked, and 3rd one has VOIP service checked. Each one has its own VLAN ID and PRI. Do you mean in additional to VLAN settings, there are something that Singtel did on the ONR that only allow Singtel TV on ONR?

Yes I did redeployed the ethernet line to both TV and other devices around the TV console with a switch. But that means those devices are not in the same network as the RT-AX86U network which is connecting to the bridged port of ONR. I hope to make all my infrastructure-type devices in the same network, but after wasted one Ethernet line, I'm short of one line now. :cry:
 

xiaofan

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Yes I'm currently connecting as:
2a) ONR unbridged port -- Singtel TV box

But that wasted one Ethernet line from DB to TV console.

Do you think it's possible if I connect a smart switch under RT-AX86U and configure VLAN so as to make Singtel TV work?
ONR bridged port -> RT-AX86U -> Smart Switch with VLAN -> Singtel TV box

or if Asus will release a fix/feature to make Singtel TV work?

Nothing to do with Asus in this case. As mentioned before, this bridged port for Singtel 1+1 plan has no VLAN and no Singtel TV. It is not possible to connect Singtel TV Box to the RT-AX86U which is connected to the bridged port.

It is the same for Singtel 1Gbps ONR users, if you have asked Singtel to bridge one port, that port will have no VLAN and no Singtel TV. Smart switch will not help here.

As for unbridged ports of Singtel ONR, then the following situation applies and it has something to do with the router vendor in that case. Unfortunately it is rather complicated. So Singtel will just say connect Singtel TV box to the ONR (unbridged port).
1) ONR unbridged port -- Singtel TV box: OK
2) ONR unbridged port -- Singtel provided router (automatically run in AP mode) -- Singtel TV Box: OK
3) ONR unbridged port -- Linksys E9450 in AP mode -- Singtel TV Box: OK (some say got problem with 4k TV box)
4) ONR unbridged port -- Netgear Orbi in AP mode -- Singtel TV Box: OK
5) ONR unbridged port -- Asus RT-AX86U in AP mode -- Singtel TV Box: NOT OK, Asus is said to develop FW updates but not yet available after so long
6) ONR unbridged port -- 3rd party router in ROUTER mode (DOUBLE NAT) -- Singtel TV Box: NOT OK
 

firesong

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Thanks for sharing! Though I'm still a bit doubtful on "the TV port is on the ONR itself". The technician told me I can plug TV into any of the remaining un-bridged ports. And in the Nokia ONR WAN settings, I can see there are 3 WAN connections, all have VLAN enabled. First one has INTERNET and TR-069 service checked, second one has IPTV service checked, and 3rd one has VOIP service checked. Each one has its own VLAN ID and PRI. Do you mean in additional to VLAN settings, there are something that Singtel did on the ONR that only allow Singtel TV on ONR?

Yes I did redeployed the ethernet line to both TV and other devices around the TV console with a switch. But that means those devices are not in the same network as the RT-AX86U network which is connecting to the bridged port of ONR. I hope to make all my infrastructure-type devices in the same network, but after wasted one Ethernet line, I'm short of one line now. :cry:
Ah, the 1+1 plan problems. A strong reason why I don't recommend it to anyone, nor do many here. Besides, 1Gbps is sufficient for most - as long as you have the right networking equipment and understand wireless networking, coverage and all.

There's a good reason why they cannot market it as 2Gbps - because it's not. It's 2 separate internet connections, one bridged to allow you to use your own router, and one unbridged NAT44 network that's on Singtel. You can't really combine both, so it's one or the other. The TV comes through the unbridged ports.

I suppose you could LAGG them - treat them as separate input networks, as if they were from 2 separate ISPs. That could help - so everything is routed through an internal routing interface. However, given that one's already NAT and the other is not, I'm not really sure that's a wise idea.
 

xiaofan

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At least SingTel 1+1 plan has some niche uses cases, unlike the SingTel 2Gbps plan which is useless to 99% of the users here.

I call SingTel 2Gbps plan the worst plan from SingTel or any ISPs in Singapore. It is using ONR and there is no way you can bridge the ONR for 2Gbps plan (same for Viewquest 2Gbps plan, but at least Viewquest ONR seems to have more features than SingTel ONR). So it will be the main router in your network.

For SingTel 1+1 plan, you do get two separate networks, two public IPv4 address, so that is good for some households already who want to have two separate networks. Then you get a powerful wireless router and an officially supported bridged port. You can also use the Dual WAN load balancing features of the RT-AX86U to have above 1Gbps speed from the 2.5G LAN port or from the wireless. That is a desired feature for some power users.

Compared to SingTel ONT users, there is a disadvantage though as seem here -- Singtel TV box has to be connected to the ONR unbridged port and not RT-AX86U.

ONT -- RT-AX86U -- Singtel TV Box : OK
 

zhangwei

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At least SingTel 1+1 plan has some niche uses cases, unlike the SingTel 2Gbps plan which is useless to 99% of the users here.

I call SingTel 2Gbps plan the worst plan from SingTel or any ISPs in Singapore. It is using ONR and there is no way you can bridge the ONR for 2Gbps plan (same for Viewquest 2Gbps plan, but at least Viewquest ONR seems to have more features than SingTel ONR). So it will be the main router in your network.

For SingTel 1+1 plan, you do get two separate networks, two public IPv4 address, so that is good for some households already who want to have two separate networks. Then you get a powerful wireless router and an officially supported bridged port. You can also use the Dual WAN load balancing features of the RT-AX86U to have above 1Gbps speed from the 2.5G LAN port or from the wireless. That is a desired feature for some power users.

Compared to SingTel ONT users, there is a disadvantage though as seem here -- Singtel TV box has to be connected to the ONR unbridged port and not RT-AX86U.

ONT -- RT-AX86U -- Singtel TV Box : OK

You listed exactly the reasons why I finally (and in hesitate) decided to recontract to 1+1. :cool: I think I'm going to add one more Ethernet cable from DB to TV console.
 

firesong

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At least SingTel 1+1 plan has some niche uses cases, unlike the SingTel 2Gbps plan which is useless to 99% of the users here.

I call SingTel 2Gbps plan the worst plan from SingTel or any ISPs in Singapore. It is using ONR and there is no way you can bridge the ONR for 2Gbps plan (same for Viewquest 2Gbps plan, but at least Viewquest ONR seems to have more features than SingTel ONR). So it will be the main router in your network.

For SingTel 1+1 plan, you do get two separate networks, two public IPv4 address, so that is good for some households already who want to have two separate networks. Then you get a powerful wireless router and an officially supported bridged port. You can also use the Dual WAN load balancing features of the RT-AX86U to have above 1Gbps speed from the 2.5G LAN port or from the wireless. That is a desired feature for some power users.

Compared to SingTel ONT users, there is a disadvantage though as seem here -- Singtel TV box has to be connected to the ONR unbridged port and not RT-AX86U.

ONT -- RT-AX86U -- Singtel TV Box : OK
Granted having 2 networks is great for redundancy purposes, having both on the same ISP is putting all your eggs in the same basket.

If an outage happens to Singtel, your "redundant" line goes down too.

I am for having a redundant network if there's a genuine need. but there's a good reason why we intentionally use a failover line from another provider - it's in the name, when the primary fails, it falls seamlessly to the backup.
 

xiaofan

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Granted having 2 networks is great for redundancy purposes, having both on the same ISP is putting all your eggs in the same basket.

If something happens to Singtel, your "redundant" line goes down too.

I am for having a redundant network if there's a genuine need. but there's a good reason why we intentionally use a failover line from another provider - it's in the name, when the primary fails, it falls seamlessly to the backup.

Mainly is tot for redundancy, but for separation.
1) Some people rent the house to some tenants
2) separate heavy user /gaming user from the other house hold members.

And you do get a bit of "dual router redundancy" as well if you use separate routers on the two networks.

I am not using 1+1 myself but rather 1Gbps plan with Singtel ONT. I also separate my home networks into two with the help of smart switch. The reason is more for router redundancy -- if I play with the pfSense/OpenWRT on one network, the Asus RT-AX82U side will still work for my family members. And if I play with the Asus side (seldom), the other side will still work.
 
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