YTD 2025 Networth tracking thread

[homer123]

As long as it's not an egregious way of calculating, it's extremely subjective.

For myself and in my opinion, the way private banks determine net worth is the way to go: liquid assets only. No CPF, no property - though the latter is subjective if say you have >2 properties, the bank might make an exception

That is what I understand from talking to my private banker as well..

 

[DevilPlate]

As long as it's not an egregious way of calculating, it's extremely subjective.

For myself and in my opinion, the way private banks determine net worth is the way to go: liquid assets only. No CPF, no property - though the latter is subjective if say you have >2 properties, the bank might make an exception

Ofc lah…bankers what….all they care is liquid investible assets so that they can earn big fat comm!

But then imo bankers should also look into property asset so that they can “advise” their clients to take out home equity loan to invest!

 

[CrashWire]

Imagine if BBCW were to enter the ring.

I think he has. We had this whole "net worth" definition discussion just 2 months ago:

https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...ndence-retire-early-movement.6370468/page-301

Ofc lah…bankers what….all they care is liquid investible assets so that they can earn big fat comm!

But then imo bankers should also look into property asset so that they can “advise” their clients to take out home equity loan to invest!

That's actually very true for private property owners. Home equity loans/reverse mortgages are a very common financial instrument, and can often be used as further leverage into equities or other investments.

 

[d9_lives]

As long as it's not an egregious way of calculating, it's extremely subjective.

For myself and in my opinion, the way private banks determine net worth is the way to go: liquid assets only. No CPF, no property - though the latter is subjective if say you have >2 properties, the bank might make an exception

Too ambiguous.
@revhappy is a hnw indv.
Once he bought a condo, he's no longer hnw and his nw is even lower than my wife's boyfriend whom is about the same age as rev and just started working 5y ago in the same industry.
But that is not a complete pic and not an apple to apple comparison isn't it?
It won't actually tell how well a person is doing after years and how much does he worth.

Those private bankers have different objective but they should use the term "investible assets", cash, or something else instead of net worth.

Just look at all the replies here.
A inc. primary res.
B exc. primary but inc. cpf
C. exc. everything, just liquid assets.
In earlier reply, you even have one said value of the primary residence can't be included but the loan value should be included.

Instead of KISS, we now have too many versions of net worth from all those smart persons.

If I ask 3 gym bros, how much they can bench and how long they've been lifting. Ima flip if there're numbers when on cycle, during bulking phase, creatine loaded, power or strict, with or without butt thrust etc.
Just answer that darn simple question like every normal person.

I don't care if benching shirtless on monday without breakfast is the only one that matters or counts to you. Don't overcomplicate it.

 

[highsulphur]

Too ambiguous.
@revhappy is a hnw indv.
Once he bought a condo, he's no longer hnw and his nw is even lower than my wife's boyfriend whom is about similar age as rev and just started working 5y ago in the same industry.
But that is not a complete pic and not an apple to apple comparison isn't it?
It won't actually tell how well a person is doing after years and how much he worths.

Those private bankers have different objective but they should use the term "investible assets", cash, or something else instead of net worth.

Just look at all the replies.
A inc. primary res.
B exc. primary but exc. cpf
C. exc. everything, just liquid assets.

Instead of KISS and we now have many versions of net worth.

The term used by banks are for marketing purposes la. You preferred to be called someone with high net worth or with much assets to invest with?

 

[hwmook]

Too ambiguous.
@revhappy is a hnw indv.
Once he bought a condo, he's no longer hnw and his nw is even lower than my wife's boyfriend whom is about the same age as rev and just started working 5y ago in the same industry.
But that is not a complete pic and not an apple to apple comparison isn't it?
It won't actually tell how well a person is doing after years and how much does he worth.

Those private bankers have different objective but they should use the term "investible assets", cash, or something else instead of net worth.

Just look at all the replies here.
A inc. primary res.
B exc. primary but inc. cpf
C. exc. everything, just liquid assets.
In earlier reply, you even have one said value of the primary residence can't be included but the loan value should be included.

Instead of KISS, we now have too many versions of net worth from all those smart persons.

If I ask 3 gym bros, how much they can bench and how long they've been lifting. Ima flip if there're numbers when on cycle, during bulking phase, creatine loaded, power or strict, with or without butt thrust etc.
Just answer that darn simple question like every normal person.

I don't care if benching shirtless on monday without breakfast is the only one that matters or counts to you. Don't overcomplicate it.

I am only interested in the "wife's boyfriend" in your post.

 

[hwmook]

That is what I understand from talking to my private banker as well..

Actually what does your private banker do for you? From your previous sharing, I don't remember you have assests managed by banker.

 

[TehSi99]

As long as it's not an egregious way of calculating, it's extremely subjective.

For myself and in my opinion, the way private banks determine net worth is the way to go: liquid assets only. No CPF, no property - though the latter is subjective if say you have >2 properties, the bank might make an exception

key word is liquid.

 

[revhappy]

Too ambiguous.
@revhappy is a hnw indv.
Once he bought a condo, he's no longer hnw and his nw is even lower than my wife's boyfriend whom is about the same age as rev and just started working 5y ago in the same industry.
But that is not a complete pic and not an apple to apple comparison isn't it?
It won't actually tell how well a person is doing after years and how much does he worth.

Ofcourse, if I bought a 1 million condo, I am not a HNW individual anymore. Because to lead a lifestyle living in a million condo, my salary needs to go up significantly more and I am going to feel super miserable even though I am living in a 1 million condo if my income is not upto the mark. Imagine all my neighbours with their BMWs and their lifestyle going out to expensive restaurants every week. If I cant do any of that, then what is the point.

Buying a condo of 1 million to live in it, is a consumption. It is not an investment. Hence exclude it from your networth and also your expenses to lead that super rich life is going to bankrupt you, unless you are a high earner, so deduct all that from your future income.

@limster often brings up the book Millionaire next door, there are some lessons in it about what is money and how to use it in a fullfilling way.

If you want to do apple to apple comparison, you can only do it with people who are of similar lifetsyle, salary and networth. In a public forum with all kinds of people, there is no apple to apple comparison.

 

[limster]

Ofcourse, if I bought a 1 million condo, I am not a HNW individual anymore. Because to lead a lifestyle living in a million condo, my salary needs to go up significantly more and I am going to feel super miserable even though I am living in a 1 million condo if my income is not upto the mark. Imagine all my neighbours with their BMWs and their lifestyle going out to expensive restaurants every week. If I cant do any of that, then what is the point.

Buying a condo of 1 million to live in it, is a consumption. It is not an investment. Hence exclude it from your networth and also your expenses to lead that super rich life is going to bankrupt you, unless you are a high earner, so deduct all that from your future income.

Thats another good reason why some prefer to focus on "liquid" net worth and also why World Wealth Report defines HNW as excluding value of residence.

Someone whose total net worth is 99% in his residential property will probably feel super miserable even if other people tell him that he is 'high net worth'.

My Financial independence come is from the fact that my passive income from my investment portfolio exceeds my current spending. If I sell my stocks and upgrade to a big landed property to stay in, most or all of my passive income will disappear.

My expenses will also increase if I upgrade to landed property, the aircon bills are probably much higher!

Millionaire Next Door is a great book!

 

[d9_lives]

Ofcourse, if I bought a 1 million condo, I am not a HNW individual anymore. Because to lead a lifestyle living in a million condo, my salary needs to go up significantly more and I am going to feel super miserable even though I am living in a 1 million condo if my income is not upto the mark. Imagine all my neighbours with their BMWs and their lifestyle going out to expensive restaurants every week. If I cant do any of that, then what is the point.

Buying a condo of 1 million to live in it, is a consumption. It is not an investment. Hence exclude it from your networth and also your expenses to lead that super rich life is going to bankrupt you, unless you are a high earner, so deduct all that from your future income.

@limster often brings up the book Millionaire next door, there are some lessons in it about what is money and how to use it in a fullfilling way.

If you want to do apple to apple comparison, you can only do it with people who are of similar lifetsyle, salary and networth. In a public forum with all kinds of people, there is no apple to apple comparison.

Condo because you can't buy a hdb. But you got the point.
I read that book and I know what diderot effect is.

@hwmook I am glad that you're interested in my wife's boyfriend.
Them identifies themself as a 40y old lesbian black male.
Them excludes the fact that them was born biologically female in a chinese family, 20y ago.

Just like "net worth" in this thread, who cares about the correct definition of gender and how many genders are there anymore.
We all can come up with new and newer versions.

 

[d5dude]

I already mentioned earlier in this thread:

Capgemini's World Weath Report defines High Net Worth as $1m investible assets, and excludes value of your residence, similar definition can be found in investopedia: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/hnwi.asp

Knight Frank Wealth report defines High Net Worth to include value of residence (they are a property company after all).

There are some who think there is only one right answer, either Capgemini is right or Knight Frank is right, the other must be wrong.

My world is not black and white. My view is both are free to use which definition they choose, as long as they make it clear. I really don't get this 'I am right, therefore you must be wrong' mindset.

So if someone has set themselves a target of achieving VHNW status (it really is up to them), they are free to measure their investible assets only and exclude their residence value.

That’s “investable net worth”, it’s again, merely a subset of total networth.

 

[d5dude]

yes technically but if we are going to include everything (literally everything like hobbies, car, bicycle, TV, phones, laptops), kind of defeats the purpose of the whole exercise, at least for me. The key purpose of determining my net worth (or sub set of it) is the assign a reasonable rate of return so that I can determine if I can retire based on those returns.

That’s all good and I have nothing against it? I dun think I have ever criticised anyone for looking at subsets of net worth, that’d be ridiculous.

 

[d5dude]

As long as it's not an egregious way of calculating, it's extremely subjective.

For myself and in my opinion, the way private banks determine net worth is the way to go: liquid assets only. No CPF, no property - though the latter is subjective if say you have >2 properties, the bank might make an exception

Financial institutions do that to assess investable networth. A person sitting on a 10m bungalow with no other financial assets is worth less to them than somebody with 3m cash and no other assets.

 

[highsulphur]

Financial institutions do that to assess investable networth. A person sitting on a 10m bungalow with no other financial assets is worth less to them than somebody with 3m cash and no other assets.

not really true. They can offer credit lines to the 10m bungalow guy secured against his home. And use those monies to invest or trade

 

[d5dude]

Ofc lah…bankers what….all they care is liquid investible assets so that they can earn big fat comm!

But then imo bankers should also look into property asset so that they can “advise” their clients to take out home equity loan to invest!

The problem is many already consider property to be an investment, even the ones who only own one very expensive property. In my social circle I know at least 5 people who have over 70% their wealth in their primary residence, in fact one extreme case was like 99% because her dad inherited a 12m bungalow (and they continued to live in it). Her dad sold the house (recently after about 8 yrs) because he had no money to replace his old car (!!!), they also bought a semi-d with most of the proceeds so again most of her dad’s money is now in their primary residence.

I swear to god I did not make this up, I have plenty more of such stories if anyone is interested.

The pt is many people in sg view real estate as a sure thing so most of their wealth tend to be in their primary residence. These people are dead to wealth managers since they will likely never invest a single cent with them, this is why primary residence is frequently not considered when assessing investable net worth.

 

[d5dude]

not really true. They can offer credit lines to the 10m bungalow guy secured against his home. And use those monies to invest or trade

Read the post above to find out why primary residence is usually not considered part of investable net worth, regardless of value.

 

[d5dude]

Ofcourse, if I bought a 1 million condo, I am not a HNW individual anymore. Because to lead a lifestyle living in a million condo, my salary needs to go up significantly more and I am going to feel super miserable even though I am living in a 1 million condo if my income is not upto the mark. Imagine all my neighbours with their BMWs and their lifestyle going out to expensive restaurants every week. If I cant do any of that, then what is the point.

Buying a condo of 1 million to live in it, is a consumption. It is not an investment. Hence exclude it from your networth and also your expenses to lead that super rich life is going to bankrupt you, unless you are a high earner, so deduct all that from your future income.

@limster often brings up the book Millionaire next door, there are some lessons in it about what is money and how to use it in a fullfilling way.

If you want to do apple to apple comparison, you can only do it with people who are of similar lifetsyle, salary and networth. In a public forum with all kinds of people, there is no apple to apple comparison.

Property is part consumption and part investment, at least this has been true in SG. Just look at how much real estate prices have gone up in the past few decades.

 

[d5dude]

Condo because you can't buy a hdb. But you got the point.
I read that book and I know what diderot effect is.

@hwmook I am glad that you're interested in my wife's boyfriend.
Them identifies themself as a 40y old lesbian black male.
Them excludes the fact that them was born biologically female in a chinese family, 20y ago.

Just like "net worth" in this thread, who cares about the correct definition of gender and how many genders are there anymore.
We all can come up with new and newer versions.

What is a woman?

I bet some people here are gonna say it’s subjective.

 

[limster]

That’s “investable net worth”, it’s again, merely a subset of total networth.

The World Wealth Report uses the term "High Net Worth" in their report. In the fine print, they provide the definition that it refers to $1m investable assets.

Just so that I understand, are you saying that Capgemini is using the term "High Net Worth" wrongly in their World Wealth report since it refers only to investable net worth and not what you call 'total networth'?