Why is M1 like gangster society- if quit will always get punished wan? (Even after contract period i

[cherry6]

Why is M1 like gangster society- if quit will always get punished wan? (Even after contract period is over)
Termination fee after completion of telco contract ANTI-COMPETITIVE- no?

The Straits Times, Published on Nov 07, 2013
My Point
Termination fee not stated
I WAS recently told by M1 that even though I had completed my 24-month home broadband contract, I would still need to pay a termination fee if I wanted to end the service.
Why was the termination fee not made clear in the contract or on M1's website?
Can the telco or the Infocomm Development Authority explain why there is a need for such a fee?
Goh Hock Chai
My Point

The Straits Times, Published on Nov 09, 2013
My Point
Termination fee listed in form
WE THANK Mr Goh Hock Chai ("Termination fee not stated"; Thursday) for his feedback on our fibre service, and have contacted him to address his concerns.
The termination charge is listed in the application form for fibre services, which is signed by our customers.
Chua Hian Hou
Assistant General Manager
Corporate Communications
M1
My point

Me thinks that the termination fee should be made ILLEGAL since the main issue is the 24 month contract that the customer has since completed. The small print is probably a dirty trick to keep customers continuously subscribed if they cannot afford the termination lump sum, CCS should really look into the matter as I think telcos (M1) are going too far.
In any case, how much does it cost to click on a button at the telco side that says terminate? Horrible service M1, horrible service!

PS: Termination fee should only apply progressively to compensate telco for free gifts or services rendered for a contract terminated prematurely BEFORE its full duration is completed.

Tag: telco, overcharge, fee, termination, contract, Singapore

 

[ussr_1991]

Why is M1 like gangster society- if quit will always get punished wan? (Even after contract period is over)
Termination fee after completion of telco contract ANTI-COMPETITIVE- no?


Me thinks that the termination fee should be made ILLEGAL since the main issue is the 24 month contract that the customer has since completed. The small print is probably a dirty trick to keep customers continuously subscribed if they cannot afford the termination lump sum, CCS should really look into the matter as I think telcos (M1) are going too far.
In any case, how much does it cost to click on a button at the telco side that says terminate? Horrible service M1, horrible service!

PS: Termination fee should only apply progressively to compensate telco for free gifts or services rendered for a contract terminated prematurely BEFORE its full duration is completed.

Tag: telco, overcharge, fee, termination, contract, Singapore

Correct, but M1's installation fee is $58.85 for normal weekday (See point 25) VS $90 for Singtel (Waived still) VS Starhub's $32.10 activation + $53.50 installation = $85.60 VS MyRepublic's $128.40 (Promo $58 for 24 month contract) VS ViewQwest $133.75 (Click on any of the application forms).


So, the sad fact is that it IS other ISP charges termination fee upfront and it is because OpenNet charges per disconnection fee. So, if want to accuse M1 like hooligan, blame OpenNet for such charges and to blame OpenNet, then must blame whoever owns it.

 

[ArcticCheetah]

Correct, but M1's installation fee is $58.85 for normal weekday (See point 25) VS $90 for Singtel (Waived still) VS Starhub's $32.10 activation + $53.50 installation = $85.60 VS MyRepublic's $128.40 (Promo $58 for 24 month contract) VS ViewQwest $133.75 (Click on any of the application forms).


So, the sad fact is that it IS other ISP charges termination fee upfront and it is because OpenNet charges per disconnection fee. So, if want to accuse M1 like hooligan, blame OpenNet for such charges and to blame OpenNet, then must blame whoever owns it.

You should add up the total cost for fair comparison for everyone to see.

 

[neubie]

If OpenNet imposes such fees to RSP, what makes TS think other RSP like StarFug, Stinktel, RP & VQ doesn't do the same to customers who terminate upon contract expiry ?

 

[ArcticCheetah]

If OpenNet imposes such fees to RSP, what makes TS think other RSP like StarFug, Stinktel, RP & VQ doesn't do the same to customers who terminate upon contract expiry ?

He meant that they collect the fees up front as part of service installation / activation.

 

[reimina]

If OpenNet imposes such fees to RSP, what makes TS think other RSP like StarFug, Stinktel, RP & VQ doesn't do the same to customers who terminate upon contract expiry ?

I thought Singtel is part of OpenNet??

 

[lcheowl]

I thought Singtel is part of OpenNet??

opennet is part of Singtel. Singtel is the main shareholder of opennet.

 

[azrin619]

mr don't charge termination fee if over 12 mths and no fees to collect the ont back.
installation fee to pay me visit you mah.

not sure about stinktel now...used to be free if return to hello shop

 

[ussr_1991]

You should add up the total cost for fair comparison for everyone to see.

What you mean by total cost?

I did count the entire cost if you read in some other threads asking about choice of fiber ISP. I always highlight that M1 charges termination fee as well.

Based on cheapest option for 24 months WITHOUT bundle plan for fair comparison since M1, MR and VQ does not really offer paid TV service that comes with very good holistic content (M1 Mibox not much content, MR & VQ relies on Netflix / Hulu those mostly English based content and there is no viable alternatives for paid Chinese, Malay & Indian content offered by SCV / Mio TV):


Singtel:

$49.90 for 200Mbps download, 100Mbps upload

Activation / Installation: $90 (Waived) for Weekday and $145 for Weekends

Hence, Weekends should be another $55 due to $90 being waived for all plans. But extra $53.50 Registration fees applies for the bundled plans.

See "What are the installation charges like?" section:
SingTel Fibre BroadBand | SingTel

Termination fee: None

ONT collection fee: Not mentioned (Perhaps none)

Modem Rental Charge: None (No, not Set-Top Box for Mio TV which has it's charges but OT.)

Router: Pace A5520N Single band router "worth" $188 (Outside cannot buy this brand except from other Singtel users as second hand). So read that with a pinch of salt.


Extras:

• 10% mobile discount
• 10GB Cloud Storage and give up on local free 100GB cloud storage (https://www.freenet.sg/#fn5]Read this)
• Free Unlimited Digital Home Line / Waived per 3 months charges for Analog Line (Pay as use for non Digital)

Notes:

• No tech support and any rebates for using 3rd party products such as Asus routers. Poor Wi-Fi quality. Come and think of conspiracy theory if a major ISP provides quality router, then those IT shops like Cyberactive should have bankrupt years ago.
• Highly doubt that the router is capable to do > 600Mbps despite having a Gigabit port. This is due to WAN to LAN throughput limitation as seen in SmallNetBuilder. Although no info was given for Pace and Aztech routers based on the site, but it is a fact that Singtel is the only Op-Co who cannot offer 1Gbps plan. So it speaks the volume on the router and perhaps even their network's quality Singtel uses.

Source: BroadBand Plans | SingTel

Starhub:

$39.90 for 100Mbps download, 100Mbps upload
$49.90 for 200Mbps download, 200Mbps upload

Router: Dlink DIR865 AC router worth $299

Activation / Installation: $85.60 ($53.50 Installation + $32.10 Activation) - Only waived for Hubber bundled plans

Termination fee: None

ONT collection fee: $12.94

Modem Rental Charge: None (No, not Set-Top Box for Cable TV which has it's charges but OT.)

Extras:

• Unlimited Home Line at discounted price ($2.10 until further notice, U.P $10.49) - Also available to Cable TV users as well. Optional component.

Notes:
No tech support but comes with 3000 reward points for using 3rd party products such as Asus routers. Poor 2.4GHz Wi-Fi quality but 5GHz is reported to be decent / solid for some. Come and think of conspiracy theory if a major ISP provides quality router, then those IT shops like Cyberactive should have bankrupt years ago. Perhaps for those who had bad experience for D-Link ones is due to firmware issue then anything else. (Subjected to confirmation - This note is a result of compiled post from other users)

Source: StarHub - Broadband - Home Broadband

StarHub - Support - Broadband - Terms and Conditions - Fibre Broadband Services


M1:


$39 for 200Mbps download, 200Mbps upload

Router: Asus N56U, upgradeable to AC66U

Activation / Installation: $58.85 (Waived for Weekday normal working hours), $85.60 (Weekday 5pm - 8pm) and $112.35 (Weekends). Logically speaking for all M1 plans, the cost must minus $58.85 and hence it will be $26.75 and $53.50 for Weekday evenings and Weekend respectively.

M1

Modem Rental Charge: None for using M1's Black ONT and $2.10 per month for using White Nucleus Connect ONT (M1 needs to force people to move on from NC so that M1 can offer a greater deal in terms on economics of scale)

Termination fee: $32.10

ONT collection fee:

Weekday before 5pm: $12.84

Weekday 5pm - 8pm: $19.26

Weekend: $25.68

Extras:

Free Digital Home Line

Notes:

Out of contract price for M1 is $99 / $139 for 200Mbps ($39 per month when in contract) / 300Mbps ($49 per month when in contract) plan. All in contract subscribers gets 60% discount. This is more the point should be complained instead despite I support M1.

MR:

$38.88 for 100Mbps download, 50Mbps upload

Router: Asus N15U and upgradeable to Asus AC66U

https://secure.myrepublic.com.sg/pricing.php

Registration / Activation fee: $128.40 (Promotion for 24 month contract: $58 and Promotion for 12 month contract: Waived entirely, but monthly pricing is $59 instead of $38.88)

Termination fee: $48.15 (Only for No contract users for less than 24 months AND monthly pricing is $59 instead of $38.88 for the same plan)

ONT collection fee: Included in Termination Fee, apparently can self-return so it is usually not required.

Modem Rental Charge: None

Extras:

• Teleport for free to watch certain Geo-blocked contents like Netflix and Hulu. Subscription to Netflix, Hulu etc are done separately.
• Free 1000 local outgoing mins / Unlimited Home line (Virtually unlimited, but not portable from Singtel, Starhub or M1. Unlimited refers to calls to another MR's number) for one time $49 installation charges. Optional component.
• Purple Vault aka Groupon for special prices every IT shows (Should be 5 every year, this year first CEE).
• Personalized after sales service like insurance service if you signed with a team. (Like those in HWZ forums one)

ViewQwest:

$65 for 200Mbps Download, 100Mbps upload

Router: Zhone 2426 all-in-one ONT OR Zhone 2301 ONT + Asus AC66U / AC68U.

Zhone 2426 comes with 2.4GHz band Wi-Fi

Zhone 2301 does not have Wi-Fi so VQ gives new signup / existing customers special price for the Asus AC routers.

Registration / Activation fee: $133.75 (Or $5.57 per month for 24 months)

Termination fee: None

ONT collection fee: None

Modem rental charge (Assures warranty for one-to-one swap): $5.35 for No contract / 12 months plan only. Waived for normal 24 month contract

Extras:

• Freedom VPN for 3 months ~ 6 months free (Depending IT shows promotion or during normal days etc) to watch certain Geo-blocked contents like Netflix and Hulu. Subscription to Netflix, Hulu etc are done separately.
• Free Unlimited Home line (Not portable from Singtel, Starhub or M1.)
• 24/7 Helpful tech support that some other ISP such as Singtel is known not to provide. So if Sh!t happens, one can call on a public holiday night to seek help only in VQ and not some other ISP.
• ViewQwest TV (Android TV box like Apple TV) that requires HDMI.

Source: Click on any of the contract application forms to see. Very transparent one.


Performance comparison (Excluding MyRepublic and ViewQwest):

Consumer Broadband Report

Conclusion:

• Singtel has the cheapest startup fee due to being waived
• M1 does not do a proper job in this termination fee / activation fee area, but the performance based on IDA report is better overall (Least latency and packet loss aka the forgotten part in Broadband Quality)
• VQ does not subsidize any part on this and hence able to fully utilize their profits to improve the network. This is why they have the slogan "Fastest Broadband in Singapore" title. Perhaps the world?
• Starhub has the highest activation fee for mainstream ISP, yet the performance is so mediocre that IDA report is never mentioned in promo materials during the show. Singtel and M1 do make reference to it as each has their own strength. (Singtel focused on highest download speed in defunct 100Mbps plan that Singtel never offer liao. So, still M1 the best even without price factor)

I hope this answers your query.

 

[LocalGod]

we should complaint that the installation and termination fees are ridiculous.

i mean.. paying $50+ just to come down for a 30 mins job? and termination do what? click one button in system to terminate in system?

ridiculous. should be approx $20-30 for transport fee will do.

 

[cyberet]

we should complaint that the installation and termination fees are ridiculous.

i mean.. paying $50+ just to come down for a 30 mins job? and termination do what? click one button in system to terminate in system?

ridiculous. should be approx $20-30 for transport fee will do.

travelling time per location, 30mins, 30mins to locate and find, 1hr per job. 9 to 5 = 8hrs. 8 jobs/day.
5 day work week, 8 x 5 x 4 = 160 jobs provided appointments full packed.
160 x $20 = $3200 inclusive of employer cpf, medical coverage, leave, mc, transportation costs, etc..

barely enough to cover a typical sg requirement for pay le.
employ ft, sg not happy.
employ sg, not enough to revenue.
its a business, not charity le..

 

[whaleshark87]

we should complaint that the installation and termination fees are ridiculous.

i mean.. paying $50+ just to come down for a 30 mins job? and termination do what? click one button in system to terminate in system?

ridiculous. should be approx $20-30 for transport fee will do.

They need to locate your fiber point in mdf room and disconnect the cables etc. Fuel and salary no need?

 

[ussr_1991]

Sadly, most people are not able to see these problems and only can see the technician come down to install the ONT and router which is nothing much more than installing the Starhub Cable Broadband service and thought that the issues mentioned here is by OpenNet people do the TP installation, which is supposed to be free (Unless got reject before).

$50+ installation fee is acceptable, but what is there to do with termination fee? Got people to open up the MDF and such?

 

[ry0suk1]

Isn't this termination fee stated clearly in the contract he sign during sign up?? Maybe he just sign blindly.
Btw M1 termination fee had been there for years...

 

[cherry6]

If OpenNet imposes such fees to RSP, what makes TS think other RSP like StarFug, Stinktel, RP & VQ doesn't do the same to customers who terminate upon contract expiry ?

Qn granted, me not using fibre, ADSL is fast and affordable enough for me- then it seems like a case of more haste less speed- is it really so labour intensive/ onerous to delete a fibre broadband account that open net actually has a charge for that? Or is open net just slapping on charges in a totally inequitable way, heedless to ethics, heedless to professionalism, morals all down the drain? Who is the main shareholder of open net- does monopolistic capitalistic interest rule the day? Are the AG chambers in Singapore and the judiciary in Singapore both !major shareholders of opennet such that they turn a deliberate blind eye to unjustifiable/profiteering surcharges by open net? Are the ethic of open net no different form some unethical salesmen at sim lim square who cook up excuses to scam customers and add costs at the drop of the hat?

These concerns have to be quickly answered as I understand that open net has monopoly right over the fibre network in Singapore.

If the tellco won't defend the interest of Singaporeans, then Singaporeans will just have to stand up for themselves. For me, I sticking to my very affordable ADSL plan for now.

Tks.

 

[cherry6]

we should complaint that the installation and termination fees are ridiculous.
i mean.. paying $50+ just to come down for a 30 mins job? and termination do what? click one button in system to terminate in system?
ridiculous. should be approx $20-30 for transport fee will do.

No qualms about $50 for installation, the technician does spend some time connecting up the fibre after all. But to have a fee for account termination after contract completion, that questions the term "contract competion"- makes the whole episode sound more like exploitation and oppression rather than an honourable business- client/customer relationship.

Telcos do after all suspend client accounts for excessive payments in arrears- do the telcos then claim as tax deductibles the 30-50 termination charge (in arrears as well) from the tax man??? If the telcos do so, then I believe that they do have a tax evasion investigation to answer for!!!

 

[ussr_1991]

No qualms about $50 for installation, the technician does spend some time connecting up the fibre after all. But to have a fee for account termination after contract completion, that questions the term "contract competion"- makes the whole episode sound more like exploitation and oppression rather than an honourable business- client/customer relationship.

Telcos do after all suspend client accounts for excessive payments in arrears- do the telcos then claim as tax deductibles the 30-50 termination charge (in arrears as well) from the tax man??? If the telcos do so, then I believe that they do have a tax evasion investigation to answer for!!!

Walau eh.

Why continue use ADSL?

You say OpenNet should not be like gangster to charge all ISP the disconnection fee which is true, in my humble opinion.

But at the end of the day, who owns OpenNet? Mainly Singtel and it is trying to buy out the entire OpenNet via one of its business trust.

Potential OpenNet sale draws flak from SingTel rivals | Techgoondu

So by using ADSL, you are still supporting Singtel in the act of hooliganism by the post / thread you have made.


Understandably, you do NOT require the promised faster speed and etc. Hence, I strongly recommend you to cancel ADSL and jump to:

A) Starhub Cable (NOT Fiber which is sucks). Digital line is optional component of $2.10 per month until further notice, but overall, you still save $$ for higher International bandwidth ($29.90 + $2.10 = $32 for 18Mbps with unlimited Digital home line VS $36.90 + $9.81 = $46.71 for 15Mbps with unlimited Digital home line or pay as use for analog line. Analog line charges $29.43 per 3 months, which is also effectively $9.81 per month for the record.)

StarHub - Broadband - Home Broadband

Home BroadBand | SingTel

Home Line | SingTel

B) Switch to MR's Fiber that cost only $38.88 per month for 24 month contract. For a setup fee of $58 promotion as written in some earlier post, you are effectively only paying installation fee that you are agreeable in the first place. MR is really nice enough to absorb all the unfair cost charged by OpenNet aka Singtel.

PS: Yes, although it is a fact that all one-time cost is totally absorbed by Singtel Fiber, but since Singtel owns part of the OpenNet, who also charges $15 per month for every connection, regardless Singtel Fiber, Starhub Fiber, MyRepublic, M1 or ViewQwest, I find it distasteful for Singtel to return the profits earned by the OpenNet to Singtel subscribers, which I think is discriminatory in nature.

Yes, I agree that there should be a charge to all the ISP for using OpenNet's infrastructure and earn a profit out of it, but I find that OpenNet should rather do a promotion to all ISP about a less connection fee / termination fee sh!t rather than letting Singtel to "subsidize" their fiber subscribers. Ya - I realized that this is also the reason why people like Singtel, which is only penny wise but pound foolish.

OpenNet wins Singapore broadband bid | ZDNet

 

[cherry6]

Walau eh.
Why continue use ADSL?
You say OpenNet should not be like gangster to charge all ISP the disconnection fee which is true, in my humble opinion.
But at the end of the day, who owns OpenNet? Mainly Singtel and it is trying to buy out the entire OpenNet via one of its business trust.
Potential OpenNet sale draws flak from SingTel rivals | Techgoondu
So by using ADSL, you are still supporting Singtel in the act of hooliganism by the post / thread you have made.
Understandably, you do NOT require the promised faster speed and etc. Hence, I strongly recommend you to cancel ADSL and jump to:
A) Starhub Cable (NOT Fiber which is sucks). Digital line is optional component of $2.10 per month until further notice, but overall, you still save $$ for higher International bandwidth ($29.90 + $2.10 = $32 for 18Mbps with unlimited Digital home line VS $36.90 + $9.81 = $46.71 for 15Mbps with unlimited Digital home line or pay as use for analog line. Analog line charges $29.43 per 3 months, which is also effectively $9.81 per month for the record.)
StarHub - Broadband - Home Broadband
Home BroadBand | SingTel
Home Line | SingTel
B) Switch to MR's Fiber that cost only $38.88 per month for 24 month contract. For a setup fee of $58 promotion as written in some earlier post, you are effectively only paying installation fee that you are agreeable in the first place. MR is really nice enough to absorb all the unfair cost charged by OpenNet aka Singtel.
PS: Yes, although it is a fact that all one-time cost is totally absorbed by Singtel Fiber, but since Singtel owns part of the OpenNet, who also charges $15 per month for every connection, regardless Singtel Fiber, Starhub Fiber, MyRepublic, M1 or ViewQwest, I find it distasteful for Singtel to return the profits earned by the OpenNet to Singtel subscribers, which I think is discriminatory in nature.
Yes, I agree that there should be a charge to all the ISP for using OpenNet's infrastructure and earn a profit out of it, but I find that OpenNet should rather do a promotion to all ISP about a less connection fee / termination fee sh!t rather than letting Singtel to "subsidize" their fiber subscribers. Ya - I realized that this is also the reason why people like Singtel, which is only penny wise but pound foolish.
OpenNet wins Singapore broadband bid | ZDNet

Hi ussr1991, tks for the proposition but won't change cos the stinky tel actually comes w free mobileBB, not super fast, but good enough n won't reveal more details abt my inet connections.

About what you said- stinktel using dividend from opennet to subsidise the Singnet fibre end user supply/ connection costs, guess that cannot be helped although I believe that there should be corporate tax rules to:
(1) Disallow opennet, being a subsidiary/separate company from giving singtel any unique discounts for service that other telcos are not privy to as that would be anti-competitive- I.e., any unique benefits granted should NOT be income tax deductible just as say the company giving out dividends to share holders is NOT tax deductible. That said, the fibre connection fee should be something telcos agree to since I understand opennet to be a monopoly in this regard.

(2) Even parent company Singtel should make a loss, the profits of a subsidiary CANNOT be used to of set the parent company's loss in terms of tax rebates just since I assume Singtel's receipt of dividends from subsidiary opennet to be tax free just like the case for a majority of share holder individuals in Singapore. Tax free dividend revenue of singtel also shouldn't exceed 50% of company profit overall. This would be akin to the case where I still have to pay income tax on my salary income REGARDLESS of any losses in the share market I might have suffered- in so far that my main occupation is not that of a stock trader.

I say this because I understand the Singapore govt to be on a search for new of higher sources of govt revenue- with kiv increase in GST.

Ref: 'Taxes must rise for social spending to increase: Ng Eng Hen'.

 

[ussr_1991]

Hi ussr1991, tks for the proposition but won't change cos the stinky tel actually comes w free mobileBB, not super fast, but good enough n won't reveal more details abt my inet connections.

About what you said- stinktel using dividend from opennet to subsidise the Singnet fibre end user supply/ connection costs, guess that cannot be helped although I believe that there should be corporate tax rules to:
(1) Disallow opennet, being a subsidiary/separate company from giving singtel any unique discounts for service that other telcos are not privy to as that would be anti-competitive- I.e., any unique benefits granted should NOT be income tax deductible just as say the company giving out dividends to share holders is NOT tax deductible. That said, the fibre connection fee should be something telcos agree to since I understand opennet to be a monopoly in this regard.

(2) Even parent company Singtel should make a loss, the profits of a subsidiary CANNOT be used to of set the parent company's loss in terms of tax rebates just since I assume Singtel's receipt of dividends from subsidiary opennet to be tax free just like the case for a majority of share holder individuals in Singapore. Tax free dividend revenue of singtel also shouldn't exceed 50% of company profit overall. This would be akin to the case where I still have to pay income tax on my salary income REGARDLESS of any losses in the share market I might have suffered- in so far that my main occupation is not that of a stock trader.

I say this because I understand the Singapore govt to be on a search for new of higher sources of govt revenue- with kiv increase in GST.

Ref: 'Taxes must rise for social spending to increase: Ng Eng Hen'.

1) Please note that due to a few post I have shared about the one-time fee, including termination fee and such, hence I got a gut feeling that why only Singtel is so uniquely to absorb all the charges without being bundled to a full bundle plan (Their Mio TV bundle plan oddly needs another $53.50 Registration fee) and Starhub waives all these charges too only if under Home Hub plan (Pay only Mobile BB ome time registration for $10.70 only). Logically, it is understandable that telcos give rebates to these nuisance as they have earned enough profit as a good will gesture.

I must re-iterate that I do not have solid proof to say Singtel is using OpenNet's dividends to have such a practice other than surface evidence presented.

2) Mobile BB? Do you hit 1GB excess? Why not consider use M1's mobile BB which offers around the same price as Singtel's Mobile BB but with 2GB instead?

M1

Logically, since Singtel now charges $10.70 per excess GB for mobile (3G / 4G) and it costs $19.90 for 5GB (Mobile 7.2), it means that Singtel ADSL is offering a $3.98 per month add on by taking $19.90 / 5 = $3.98 per GB. $3.98 + $10.70 = $14.68, still almost $2 more expensive than M1 BB.

See rates -> Point 2:

FAQs - Laptop - Mobile BroadBand | SingTel


Hence, I still suggest that you go for either Starhub Cable for most cheapest (But not value) or MR Fiber for value option and pair it with M1 Mobile BB, which I am really not aware of such charges. So do check out with M1 then and seriously, Singtel's "Excellent coverage" is a hype. M1 is on par with it for less price and more data (Comparing the top tier mobile BB plans though).

 

[jumpmanz]

didnt know M1 had this termination fee. am with starhub all along.