Profitable Group - is it credible?

Still Advertising 12.5%

If you put Profitable Group into google today you get this google advert coming up

Make 12.5% every 6 months
profitablegroup.com - Profitable Group Strategic Products Land, Property, Art, IT, Energy

So they are still advertising 25% per year interest rates. They should be able to pay you if you are entitled.

I still dont understand what you are actually invested in when you buy into this program.
It seems like its some kind of Boron CLS futures investment from the adverts - Who are the buyers ? The only people I could find on the web claiming to use Boron CLS was a Honda driver in a car forum and his mates were telling him off .

I saw another site where they claimed the UK Government was a buyer - but I cant see them buying an American Lubricant product from a Land Investment company based in Singapore.

Can investors tell what you think the investment actually is and how you get your interest and capital back ?

Asia File Quote on Profitable Group

On this news site

us.asiancorrespondent.com/the-asia-file/2009/06/question-marks-over-newcastle-uniteds.html

Profitable Group chief executive John Gaunt says:-.

“Show me one person that has lost money with us,” . “No-one has lost money. If there was anything illegal about our schemes, one of the most regulated societies in world, Singapore, would have closed us down long ago.”

So John Gaunt might be the man to contact at Profitable if you have genuine and valid concerns about getting your money.

BTW he also said “We don’t take UK business,” he said. “The business regulations in the UK and the manner in which the UK is structured are not conducive to doing business – it’s easier to do business elsewhere.”

I would feel uncomfortable about buying investments in the UK from a company that doesnt do business there as there will no no local regulatory authority enable to act on your behalf in the event that things go wrong.

probono said:

If you put Profitable Group into google today you get this google advert coming up

Make 12.5% every 6 months
profitablegroup.com - Profitable Group Strategic Products Land, Property, Art, IT, Energy

So they are still advertising 25% per year interest rates. They should be able to pay you if you are entitled.

I still dont understand what you are actually invested in when you buy into this program.
It seems like its some kind of Boron CLS futures investment from the adverts - Who are the buyers ? The only people I could find on the web claiming to use Boron CLS was a Honda driver in a car forum and his mates were telling him off .

I saw another site where they claimed the UK Government was a buyer - but I cant see them buying an American Lubricant product from a Land Investment company based in Singapore.

Can investors tell what you think the investment actually is and how you get your interest and capital back ?

Click to expand...

That's right. Was told they have some dealings with the Albania or Algeria government so they have large vol. of boron contracts. They also mentioned they have other pool of companies worldwide buying Boron products from them.
However, I was not shown any proof or whatsoever.

But they also mentioned that this investment has no performance risk. That means even if transaction between companies and PG cannot be realised, investors will still get their 12.5%. So the only possible risk is exchange rate. So I don't bother to check the companies and I bought the idea.

In the end, I still waiting to get back my investment capital from their boron investment. Now is going to be 6 months after expiry

BTW, Rgds to the nxt post you mentioned, their CEO, John G. is no longer with them. Another director, James H. also left the company.
And they had also withdrawn from buying Newcastle abt 1 month after the news article link you put up.

Hi Kelvin,

What you just mentioned (ability to get the money back even if the transaction did not go thru between Profitable Group and the end client) is written in the contract under the clause on Power of Attorney.

I checked online that there are free legal consultation clinics (google for "probono lawyer singapore") around. I have always wanted get some consultation on that clause from professionals. If you have time, you can do that too. 6 months of waiting is really long, you may want to visit them in their office or roadshow to ask about your payment???

belledonne99 said:

Hi Kelvin,

What you just mentioned (ability to get the money back even if the transaction did not go thru between Profitable Group and the end client) is written in the contract under the clause on Power of Attorney.

I checked online that there are free legal consultation clinics (google for "probono lawyer singapore") around. I have always wanted get some consultation on that clause from professionals. If you have time, you can do that too. 6 months of waiting is really long, you may want to visit them in their office or roadshow to ask about your payment???

Click to expand...

Hi BelleDonna, Thanks for the advice. I will go seek the legal consultation.
I do not really want to go their office to ask for my money back, to me it's not right.It feels like I owed money from them like that.
The company shd take the initiative to update the client and pays them on time after the client has given them permission to either renew or surrender his contract..

My CSO has ignored my emails. Its pretty bad.If you manage to get him, he will try to tell you many stories.
Hope I can get back my money soon and I will update you and the rest.

Thanks again

belledonne99 said:

Hi Kelvin,

What you just mentioned (ability to get the money back even if the transaction did not go thru between Profitable Group and the end client) is written in the contract under the clause on Power of Attorney.

I checked online that there are free legal consultation clinics (google for "probono lawyer singapore") around. I have always wanted get some consultation on that clause from professionals. If you have time, you can do that too. 6 months of waiting is really long, you may want to visit them in their office or roadshow to ask about your payment???

Click to expand...

Hi

I have been to this probono lawyer before provided by the Law Society for free. Their consultation is only limited for 20 mins and they may not take cases like ours as it involved personal investment. Time is too short to get any concrete discussion and lawyers there are usually the inexperienced ones who are there to learn, I think. However, you can still try.

Hi all,

My CSO had also resigned and it seems that one by one they are leaving. Something is seriously wrong about this Company. In time to come, we should be able to conclude what will happen. Anyway, we can only hope that PG still possess a bit of conscience to give us an assured accountibility.

Sad to hear that some are caught with such risky investment with high returns. It appears that the company buys "strategic" land and hold it long term or for more than 5 years expecting appreciation.

Imagine, if you put in your money and decided to withdraw, how on earth will the company be able to pay you when your money already sunk in the land unless you want them to sell your lot despite a loss. But they will not sell your lot if it is less than your cost. If it's a loss situation, they allow you to migrate your investment to another piece of land at no charge. So it appears to be a waiting game for the land to appreciate and for you to get back your capital if your are lucky.

I am sure the company have covered themselves well. I am sure the guarantees are conditional and unlikely the CAD can do much except to stop or discourage them from selling more by imposing some conditions that they cant accept.

Companys dont have a conscience only people.

Adeius said:

Hi all,

My CSO had also resigned and it seems that one by one they are leaving. Anyway, we can only hope that PG still possess a bit of conscience to give us an assured accountibility.

Click to expand...

If your CSO (Sales Rep) has gone then the new one will feel no personal obligation to you for any promises made by the old one. Companys dont have a conscience. Some people who work in companys sometimes do. You need to find the person in the company who will help you. If you cant you need to see a lawyer or bring regulatory or public pressure to bear.

If you are genuinely owed money its best to act before there is a queue.

Hi Adeius,

Troubled to hear ur CSO has resigned. Mine is also resigning. I guess they all know what is to come. I jus surrendered one of my boron lots..i still have two more lots of Borons pending for maturity. I had coffee with my CSO recently and he told me some of the management staff were either relocated or had left the company. Maybe the company could not pay them. Anyway it all shows that PPG is not in good shape and my friends who have invested with them are worried they will lose all. Right now..i am playing the game of wait and see because i will give them maximum of two months to pay up before I decide my next course of action. But I advise pple like Kelvin to go down to PPG office and demand for their payout..I find it very unacceptable for someone not to see the managment personally when the payout is delayed for 6 months..sometimes u have to take law into ur hands..dun wait for CAD ..they will take their time...try somethin in the meanwhile..like someone said..go to their road shows..with other frends and demand for ur money...

Hi All,

I just recieved several phone calls from two CSOs, Michael Schuhle and Frederic Gumboc of Profitable Group. After some hard selling, I did a Google search and found this thread.

They claimed that they are going sue some of you here as you have defamed their organisation for not honouring your payment (after I have directed them to this thread). They also claimed that you can sue them if they have not honoured their words (as written in your contract).

To prove that they or you are right or wrong, I am going to openly publish here and monitor this progress before I am convinced.

I hope all of you could keep this information public, i.e., If they have paid you on time and in full as claimed in 12.5%/2Q profit, publish it; If they have not honoured their words, publish it too. Most importantly, to both Profitable Group and the posters here... Make sure the mass media in Singapore gets involved, especially those legal proceedings should this become a legal suit.

For some of you who would like their contact information as recorded in my e-mail and phone:

Tel: +630285633600
michaelschuhle[at]profitablegroup[dot]com
fredericb[at]profitablegroup[dot]com

binggo said:

Hi All,

I just recieved several phone calls from two CSOs, Michael Schuhle and Frederic Gumboc of Profitable Group. After some hard selling, I did a Google search and found this thread.

They claimed that they are going sue some of you here as you have defamed their organisation for not honouring your payment (after I have directed them to this thread). They also claimed that you can sue them if they have not honoured their words (as written in your contract).

To prove that they or you are right or wrong, I am going to openly publish here and monitor this progress before I am convinced.

I hope all of you could keep this information public, i.e., If they have paid you on time and in full as claimed in 12.5%/2Q profit, publish it; If they have not honoured their words, publish it too. Most importantly, to both Profitable Group and the posters here... Make sure the mass media in Singapore gets involved, especially those legal proceedings should this become a legal suit.

For some of you who would like their contact information as recorded in my e-mail and phone:

Tel: +630285633600
michaelschuhle[at]profitablegroup[dot]com
fredericb[at]profitablegroup[dot]com

Click to expand...

Can you also direct CAD and channelnewsasia to this forum since the investment was over CNA.

Mr Bingo, your post is very interesting indeed. I await with keen interest posts from the 2 CSO officers you mentioned, here in this forum.

In particular, I would very much like to be enlightened on which bloody clause in the contract allows the company to delay payment, and not be faulted! If it really exists, then the contractual terms have NOT been explained to us in good faith. C'mon.... I just want to say: when an apology is due, just say sorry, don't threaten to sue.

In that aspect, I must commend (at least for the time being) the manager Simon who is handling my case as he was willing to apologise and admit their oversight. I have given my words to him, that if I get paid on the date he promised me (albeit a 2-month delay), I will post it here for all to see and to the clear the air. Simple. And fair.

One more reply to Mr Bingo

Hi, I know I am not the only one to have reported the matter to CAD (Police). For those who did, it must be because we have not been paid punctually at the end of the maturity period of 6 months. If not, dare we bring the case before the Singapore Police? They will throw out the case and throw us out as well....

Thanks belledonne99!!

Interestingly, could anyone of you post their terms & conditions of their contract online for all of us to scrutinise please? You can remove any private & confidential information if you deem not appropriate.

I have watched the CNA's telecast... I feel it is very much "choreographed", i.e. looks very much like a PR stunt when you see how Suzanne Jung asked those questions.

I doubt CAD or MAS is interested in reading our posts as I have yet to come across any media coverage on their interests/interventions in this sort of investment.

They claimed to be SQC certified. I would like to see their documentations on customer's end-of-contract fulfilment processes. So Michael & Frederic, if you are reading this. Prove that your company has those documents by posting them here in this forum!

Haiz. Just because a company has money to advertise on cable channels doesn't mean they're honest. That's only because the channel has no reason to reject the advertising dollars, yet.

Once upon a time, human beings used mercury (poisonous liquid metal) as ointment for injuries and as contraceptive. That was before people found out mercury caused a bunch of **** damage to the human body. As dangerous as the T1000.

Advertising Standards CNA ?

Is the CNA telecast on line somewhere ? Could someone post a link ?

Google search for "youtube profitable group" shows a CNA advert related to the Profitable Group Concorde Village UK hounslow strategic land investment site. It claims estimated returns of 250% in 3 years. This was posted last year so one year is gone..

Google search for "Concorde Village Hounslow" shows the opinion from the local authority and local newspapers in Hounslow is that permission for building can not happen in the forseeable future. The local authority also claim to have instructed the agents acting for Profitable Group on this many times so PG should be aware of the risks from this investment.

I'm sure PG and CNA will say in 2 years time that the english word "estimate" is not binding in any form which of course it is not. But it does raise a question on advertising standards. By using this word locals could easliy be misled into thinking returns of 250% were highly likely.

Based on my reasearch any return at all appears to be highly unlikely.


.

belledonne99 said:

Mr Bingo, your post is very interesting indeed. I await with keen interest posts from the 2 CSO officers you mentioned, here in this forum.

In particular, I would very much like to be enlightened on which bloody clause in the contract allows the company to delay payment, and not be faulted! If it really exists, then the contractual terms have NOT been explained to us in good faith. C'mon.... I just want to say: when an apology is due, just say sorry, don't threaten to sue.

In that aspect, I must commend (at least for the time being) the manager Simon who is handling my case as he was willing to apologise and admit their oversight. I have given my words to him, that if I get paid on the date he promised me (albeit a 2-month delay), I will post it here for all to see and to the clear the air. Simple. And fair.

Click to expand...

Just to update, I was given a written promise by my CSO that I will get my money back in early December. If my payment is delayed again, I will then further the actions.

I believe wat this manager did is right for him to apologise for the delay. I will also post it here when I have or have not received my money. Thanks BelleDonne for the post.

For the 2 CSOs who put up the posts, I believe they need to talk to their manager regards to what is the exact situations at the moment for their company now. They should behave like belledonne's CS Manager instead of 'threatening' to sue without concrete evidence.

To probono

Here is the CNA link:
profitablegroup[dot]com/group-mediaplayer.aspx?cid=68&media=1

(I have to post the links in this manner as I have not enough rights.)

To Michael & Federic,

Another one of your interesting claims... you claim that Profitable Group is audited by Deloitte. So could you post a the independent auditor's page of your company's audited account in this website please? Here is an example if you cannot understand what I mean. (dbs[dot]com[dot]sg/dbsgroup/annual2008/documents/independent_auditors_report.pdf)

To me, talk is cheap. In fact, it has negative equity. You have wasted my precious time listening to your nonsense.

Case 1:
A Singaporean Government Linked Company defaulting investors in their Hi-Note minibond investments... If you cannot read it well I am going to repeat twice... Government Linked Company
Below are their awards:
dbs[dot]com[dot]sg/dbsgroup/annual2008/Pages/awards_and_accolades_2008.aspx

So Profitable Group's SQC is mediocre. Whatever connection on linking Profitable Group to the government means nothing to me.

Case 2: 4th world largest bank with 158 years of history is audited by Ernst & Young (Big 4) collapsed

Case 3: Enron is audited by Arthur Andersen (Big5)

So have you enough documented cases of renowned companies audited by Big 4/5s?

I am more interested if you can prove to be that Profitable Group is SOX-complianced.

Your customers' feedbacks here in this forum has clearly shown the serious flaws in your customer's SLA. I am very much interested to know who your BE auditor is . If you come clean, you, Profitable Group and your auditors (accounting & BE) will be famous. In fact your customers will flock to you without the need of making any sales pitch. Word-of-mouth will spread like wildfire, i.e. viral marketing.

Finally, don't watse your time and resources (those unwelcomed telephone calls) on me, i.e., dont' waste my time telling me how good your investment tools are...Prove it or I will be your worst customer.

Probono, the CNA link you are looking for was posted by Henrylbh earlier. Just seach back the thread. But it's on land investment, not on Boron, which some of us invested in.

Boron, as explained to us by PG, involves a simple transaction. First, PG secures a contract from an end customer for a certain quantity of Boron (an industrial lubricating oil). For PG to buy the Boron and deliver to the customer, it needs money. That's where our investments come in. They use the money to buy Boron, and in other words, the investors actually own the underlying Boron. When PG delivers Boron to the customer eventually, it will receives payment and make a profit, a portion of which can then be used to pay back the investors. So for PG to make money, its returns from this deal certainly has to be more than 12.5%/6 months, which is easily achievable! In the commercial world, the mark up can be easily 50% if not more! As the transaction is in USD, forex risk is inherent in this investment. Personally, I don't think the promised return for Boron is unrealistic or un-achievable. We aren't talking about 200% or 300% return.

Binggo, I think you can ask to have a copy of the contract from the CSO. After all, they are supposed to explain to you each & every clause. Not so appropriate for us to post it here. In any case, what's important is that CAD has photostated all necessary documents for their investigation.

Kelvin, yes, please keep us informed of the status of payment. So will I. In fact, I replied Simon that if the payment did come true in early Dec, I would post as such here and likewise, if it did not happen, I would also post something else here.