Profitable Group - is it credible?

redkop74 said:

Hi All,

I went down to their office to make a fuss on the delayed payment. Simon was not around but then came another manager call Steven Harris. He gave all sort of excuses on the delayed. He promised to give me a call by 6pm yesterday but he did not. I was also assured that payment will be made to me on 14th Dec 09 but I think it is another lie.

All I can say is that all their manager and directors are all crap. Their common excuses they are giving are:

1) Simon having meeting..
2) Steven with client..
3) Finance director not around, hence can't release cheque.
4) The delayed was caused by the global ecomonic crisis.
5) They are trying their best to resolve the payment issue
6) They will pay out the money but give them more time...

My patience has run out. I am taking actions but I will say what actions as there might be some blacksheep there.

I urge the affected people here to form a group and discuss the issue and come up with actions to take.

As for Concorde Village, it may not be a scam. As for he Trust fund, the lawyer has not replied to me.

I do agree we should write to Spring asking them to strip them of their Quality Class stautus and inform MAS (though they are not regulated) about it.

Having said that, please practice independent thinking and don't just hear rumours or merely hear say..

At the end of the day, even if we can't recover the money, it is due to our own fault for not checking on the company before investing with them or buying their products. No point blaming others.

Let's us keep the faith that the money can be recovered back.

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Based on my experience, its better to appear in their office everyday until you are paid. It seems to be working for my friends who have done that

If you have the time, visit their office evryday until they pay you. My friends have done that for 2 weeks but were paid in full. Its a hassle but its well worth it to get back your money

Hi Belledonne 99 and others,

Just to share, when Liverpool came to Singapore in July, Profitable Plots did have a product call Tour Plot. Client need to invest $8888 for 3 months and they will get 3% interest. I invested in it. The proposed payout date was 7th Sept 09. When the day came, I asked for payment but was delayed.

In the end, I got my payment on the 1st week of October. It was Simon who get the payment ready for me.

I find it weird that while they do made payment for my Tour Plot, they are not afraid of actions taking against them for the delayed for the Borons payment. I believe they must know that they have a defence if we sue them.

Moving forward, apart from suing them, we should considering:

1) Alerting the Press
2) Reporting to CAD
3) Alerting Spring

I heard from a CS manager Steven Harris that he is given the task of looking into the payment. If anyone here wants someone to look for, you may consider looking for him. However he has no integrity at all.

So have you people taking any action? How many of you here have actually been paid?

In simple words, i have lost trust all of the staffs in the company especially the old scheming "old fox" Steven Harris.

Keep the post coming and update the happenings.

Hi Belledonne 99 and others,

Just to share, when Liverpool came to Singapore in July, Profitable Plots did have a product call Tour Plot. Client need to invest $8888 for 3 months and they will get 3% interest. I invested in it. The proposed payout date was 7th Sept 09. When the day came, I asked for payment but was delayed.

In the end, I got my payment on the 1st week of October. It was Simon who get the payment ready for me.

I find it weird that while they do made payment for my Tour Plot, they are not afraid of actions taking against them for the delayed for the Borons payment. I believe they must know that they have a defence if we sue them.

Moving forward, apart from suing them, we should considering:

1) Alerting the Press
2) Reporting to CAD
3) Alerting Spring

I heard from a CS manager Steven Harris that he is given the task of looking into the payment. If anyone here wants someone to look for, you may consider looking for him. However he is a man of zero integrity as far as I am concerned.

So have you people taking any action? How many of you here have actually been paid?

In simple words, i have lost trust all of the staffs in the company especially the old scheming "old fox" Steven Harris.

Keep the post coming and update the happenings.

redkop74 said:

Hi Belledonne 99 and others,

Just to share, when Liverpool came to Singapore in July, Profitable Plots did have a product call Tour Plot. Client need to invest $8888 for 3 months and they will get 3% interest. I invested in it. The proposed payout date was 7th Sept 09. When the day came, I asked for payment but was delayed.

In the end, I got my payment on the 1st week of October. It was Simon who get the payment ready for me.

I find it weird that while they do made payment for my Tour Plot, they are not afraid of actions taking against them for the delayed for the Borons payment. I believe they must know that they have a defence if we sue them.

Moving forward, apart from suing them, we should considering:

1) Alerting the Press
2) Reporting to CAD
3) Alerting Spring

I heard from a CS manager Steven Harris that he is given the task of looking into the payment. If anyone here wants someone to look for, you may consider looking for him. However he is a man of zero integrity as far as I am concerned.

So have you people taking any action? How many of you here have actually been paid?

In simple words, i have lost trust all of the staffs in the company especially the old scheming "old fox" Steven Harris.

Keep the post coming and update the happenings.

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Redkop74,

I do not like to say this but Steven Harris is hopeless and useless. He promised me payment on 11th Nov but today is already 13th Nov i have yet to see the cheque. I called him on 11th Nov asking for payment but he could not pay up. So for PP to assign him to look into payment, he is not looking very hard at all. He promised to call me before 1800 on 11th Nov and guess what? I am still waiting!!

Taking Actions Against Profitable Group

Hi Redkop74 & all,

I have already alerted CAD and SPRING. Will keep all informed of the outcome & follow up actions to take.

I'll pay Profitable Group a visit this week too. Steven Harris? If the Director is around, better still.

As for Henrylbh's suggestion - taking group legal action against Profitable Group, any takers?

desyjean said:

If I were you I wouldn't trust them at all. There are 3 Directors in that company and 2 of them are related ie husband and wife. The husband was the one who told my friend that he is more than "HAPPY TO GET RID OF RID AS A CUSTOMER" and my friend is now seeking legal advise in this matter. If that Director goes by the name Andy Noordmann then I would even touch him with 10 foot pole. A man without integrity.

But like you said what else can you do. Hopefully CAD will take firm action against them.

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Hi Desy,

the director name is Chandra, it's their sales director. I am not sure whether he can help me or not. My purpose is to just get money and that's it. Let's see what he can do to help. Hope he is not like Steven H. who likes to make false promises.

And hope all of us get back our payout asap.

kelvintyy said:

Hi Desy,

the director name is Chandra, it's their sales director. I am not sure whether he can help me or not. My purpose is to just get money and that's it. Let's see what he can do to help. Hope he is not like Steven H. who likes to make false promises.

And hope all of us get back our payout asap.

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Based on what going here, your really believe anyone inside can help? Even CAD may not be able help when they got no money to pay. Go for a writ of seizure and sale.

Hi all,
i am writing in to ask some qns as i am concerned for some of my friends who hv invested loads wt them. Some of them invested a fews yrs bak & they really got bak all their returns upon maturity. last yr 2008 july, they reinvested back into some new plots of AAA & supposed to get bak their annual payout by july 2009 abt 12.5%p.a.. They were approached by their CSO to reinvest their annual payout into some baron oil. However they choose not to reinvest. They have waited patiently from july 2009 till today 14th dec 2009 & they still have not received their annual payout.

Sometime in july 2009, their CSO said they wld received by late july 2009. Then said by aug 2009, then said by sept 2009, then oct 2009, then nov 2009. then latest by first week of dec 2009. The reasons given were:
1)the previous man in charged put the co. in the mess due to some football club purchase, then new guy take over & so need some time to reorganize & process cheque.
2) they were affected by last yr financial crisis; they actually are not obligated to pay the annual payout as the co. did not perform well laz yr. however, they are trying their best to honor the payout.
3)they have a big deal some home building projects coming thru in the phillipnes. So they asked investors to be patience. once this deal is firmed up, all payout + dividends will be paid.
4) PG is still financially strong with very good various biz arms & other assets, etc...

My frenz went dwn personally to talk to a british man who just took over the baton. Cant rmbr his name. He gave this assurance to my friend. gave his off. DID, Hp & email. he said my friends can call jim directly & assured that payments wld be made by early dec 2009. he also said my friends can surrender the plots any time and PG will buy them bak. My friends wld only loose in the exchange rate. he said he wld email the sale form to my friends but till now no email from him.

My friends tried to call him repeatedly & email him since 1st week of dec. Till now, no reply from him. He didnt even bother to reply sms, hp call...

I have some qns here:
1) PG said all clients $ are held in trust fund by their lawyer. If they go bust, client can still get bk $. Is this really true?
2) Shld PG really go bust due to victim of laz yr financial crisis, are my friends' title deeds which they held for the UK land still valid? meaning, are they still the legitimate land owners & still able to find buyers on their own?
4) other then CAD, is there any other authorities to report to?

Thanks & hope everyone here get their $ back..thanks for the community spirit of sharing here...cos my frenz are so convinced by this british manager of PG...delaying payment to investors without given a proper notice & not answering any calls /mails from investors are terrible attitude...

wonder how this british manager feel if PG delayed his salary for even one week????so investors' annual payout have been delayed for mths & yet he still say not to worry...

Dear Babylontrader & all others,

First, the sales director, Mr Chandra is useless. He won't help. I emailed him 3 times and he can't bother to reply.

I have lost trust of all the people in PP. Yes, they gave me exactly the same reasons as per your friends. However I am not prepared to accept or believe their craps they are coming out with. They simply have too much excuses coming. Actions need to be taken against them for default paymentsa and misleading us of the payment dates. This is considered cheating.

As for your question on the Trust matter, the Trust mentioned by PP is Lim & Lim. I did email Lim & Lim and clarify with a lawyer. He claimed that they are not holding on to any monies under their client's account. Then I seek clarification from PP and they advised my email was not written accurately and requested me to email the lawyer again. Now the lawyer has stopped replying to me. There is a big question mark if the Trust really exist. If the lawyer can confirm that they do not have any Trust, then action can be taken against PP for fraud but now it seems hanging on the balance.

As for making a trip down to PP, personally I feel it is useless and they will find excuses to shun you off.

Perhaps we should gather to and demand payment at their office. If they call in the police, it is better for us as it will alert the public and police on the situation we are facing with PP.

I have given Steven until 14.12.09 to make payment failing which I will take legal action of my own.

Do consider my suggestion of getting together and staging a mini-protest at their office.

Remember : Unity is strength and synergy is power.

I am sure PP will take a serious look if we do that.

Few points to add.

Why should the PP worry as it is not their money. They will still be paid salary.

If they are finanically strong, why are they delaying payment? The banks are hit hard as well but they are still paying out to customers.

I understand PP is constantly having meeting. They claimed the meetings are to resolve the payment to us but it could also a meeting to decide winding down the company?

Before they really wind down the company, it is better to seek legal means to recover our monies back and get CAD to investigate.

dear redkop74,
thanks for ur reply. i will refer all my friends to this post & hopefully, they can make some decision rather than sit & wait.

i saw this link on PG website http://www.profitablegroup.com/contactUs.aspx?site=Board of Directors&sid= 7
i wonder if there is any use in contacting the big guns like the group finance director & Group MD directly like tim goldring? ..cos i realised michael dawson & steven harris & the wat muniandy indian guys are just ikan billis in the company even though they are in the executive team. they are just client servicing managers & group sales directors. I think they are all commissioned sales agents... no power to do anything...

I see if i can extract any personal info of the PG shareholders & directors...BTW, from the website PG seems to be LLP or sole proprietor??? dnt see any private ltd sign behind the company name.

last time there was a guy who did a post.then when PG paid out to him for his baron investments, PG wanted to sue him. then the guy disappeared from all postings & never reply any emails anymore...

PG said wat we write on all this postings are defamations. i wonder do they have any rights to sue the public for airing their honest experience...

ACRA site reveals there are 6 private limited companies with the name Profitable and all are at Stanley Street.

Which one are you dealing with?

Tan Kin Lian had a brush with PG.

http://tankinlian.blogspot.com/search?q=profitable

PG also had something to re-butt TKL.

Both exchanges were subsequently taken off the sites.

henrylbh said:

ACRA site reveals there are 6 private limited companies with the name Profitable and all are at Stanley Street.

Which one are you dealing with?

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Hi Henrylbh, these Profitablessss are all at STANLEY I think

title deeds and selling tiny plots of land

babylontrader said:

Hi all,
2) Shld PG really go bust due to victim of laz yr financial crisis, are my friends' title deeds which they held for the UK land still valid? meaning, are they still the legitimate land owners & still able to find buyers on their own?

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If your friends have the real title deeds then they are still valid. The problem would be the actual value of the land may be less than the administrative cost of selling it due to the low potential for planning approval. The open market value for this land makes it pretty much worthless without planning permission. How to get planning permission for one or two plots stuck in the middle of 9000 others?
You would have to get all the other plot owners together to process the sale which would be almost impossible.

When UKLI folded last year most people did have the title deeds for the plots of land they purchased. Investors discovered the land was in most cases worth less than 5% of what they paid. A few companies then came in and offered to process the planning applications in return for up front fees.These were quickly shut down as scams.

If the land isn't maintained you could be liable for costs associated with that. A lot of people who invested with failed land banking plot companies in the UK either abandon the plot or sell them for pennies on the pound on e-bay.

Visit to Profitable Group at Stanley St

Ok, jokes aside, I paid Profitable Group a visit today, at about noon time. Simon was caught by surprise. Apparently, like what most people said here, he is no longer handling Boron payment. Steven Harris has taken over. Nonetheless, Simon brought me to their level 1 conference room and talked to me.

Simon said Profitable has already delivered the Boron shipment to a Dubai customer and did not get paid, hence causing all these delayed payouts. I therefore asked to be showed either (1) my cheque, or (2) evidence that my money has indeed been used to buy Boron for delivery to the Dubai customer. Simon said he could not show me the evidence as it is confidential and the Directors would not allow it. I questioned why he should speak on behalf on his director and asked that he get his director to speak to me. Simon then left to get his Director.

After waiting for about 20mins, Simon arrived with his Sales Director Tim Fogarty. Tim Fogarty repeated the same story about the Dubai buyer to me. I asked to see the evidence. He said the "buyer info and supplier info is confidential" and couldn't show me. Then I asked when was the Boron shipment delivered to the Dubai buyer. He said "6 months ago". I followed by asking how much is the shipment worth. He said "about 10million", I assumed it's in USD. I next asked what actions have been taken by Profitable Group in the past 6 months to try to recoup the money owed to them, Fogarty was not able to answer me directly, and tried to dodge it by saying that their investment in the Philippines would give the company some cash flows soon and they hoped to pay asap. Though I can see how hard he's trying to convince me, I told him I was not satisfied by his reply at all.

Before I left, I asked to have Tim's direct line, and a letter signed by himself stating that Profitable Group will pay me USD5625 at no less than the US-S$ exchange rate as of the maturity date of my contract. Tim was reluctant initially, said he has to check with the board. I told him his Chief whatever is only upstairs at level 3, no need to wait for the board. He then left the room to consult his boss & agreed to my request upon return.

Tim said he would personally handle my case & provide weekly update on payout. I sarcastically told him that he is "better than Simon" in the sense that he did not even promise a payout date!

Anyway, I will give him a week to call me. If I am not satisfied with his reply, I am taking them to court thru' small claim tribunal. I don't believe they will file for bankruptcy, and definitely not over USD5625!

Actions Against Profitable Group

1. SPRING.
Still no reply yet.

2. CAD.
Constantly updating them & jeo jeo them on actions to take (I can understand they have to be careful & thorough in their investiagation).

3. Press.
No close contact working there. Perhaps someone can help?

4. "Protest".
Make sure it is NOT publicly-held, if not you need license from police. Meeting at Profitable Group's office is ok (I think. Private what....)

5. Legal.
If criminal offence, CAD will take it up & we will all be happy.
If not, Small Claim Tribunal for those with small investment amounts, or civil suits for others.

6. Protecting yourselves.
Try to post only facts. Don't do personal attacks. Name calling is not advisable. I understand all of us are frustrated. Who wouldn't be? But try to protect yourselves too.

Dubai ever mentioned before ?

belledonne99 said:

Profitable has already delivered the Boron shipment to a Dubai customer and did not get paid,

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I thought your approach on asking for proof of shipment was spot on.
I wonder if you had ever heard Dubai mentioned as a PG customer before the Dubai crisis? Sounds like a perfect excuse. I would think if PG really had a $10M order they would be singing about it from the top of Fort Canning hill and would be happy to show you proof.

Profitable group investment

Hi all,

I also made a USD10k Boron investment in April. In Oct, when it matured, I thought I will wait for the company to snail mail about collection of cheque. But by first week of November, when there was notification, I called the compliance officer's extension, Jon Lium, and was told it was not in use.

I called my sales agent, Simon Dawson, he said Jon had already left and he claimed he was in sales, and did not know who was in charge of my case now. Later on a guy called Amran spoke to me, tried to convince me to renew but I didnt want. So he let me sign a form on 11th Nov to indicate I want to cash out. He said he will call me when my cheque is ready, probably 2 week's time. He also said he will make a photocopy of the form I signed and send it to me. I did not get the form.

I waited till 1st week of Dec, then I called him. He is always not at his extension, call his mainline, the receptionist will say they are out on tea break. I call his hp, nobody picks up.

Last week, I managed to get him at his extension once. He claimed my case has been sent to Steven Harris to follow up, so he does not have details on when I will get my cheque. Steven not at his desk, Amran says will get him to call me and he will sms me Steven's ext, but I did not get call or sms.

I have been calling Amran without success. Today I called Simon Dawson again, to tell him I am delayed getting my payment but alarmingly Amran is not returning my calls. He gave me the story of Dubai investors, I said thanks for telling me this but how come Amran did not return my calls? Now he claims Amran is under him and he will tell him off. And he asks me to give them 1 month to come up with the money.