Insurers' par fund CAGR FY2008 onwards

[Shion]

AIA data is based on Group 1 ($SGD)
Currently the best is GE

Thanks for the chart

 

[akwl88]

cui, none hit above 4.75%

maybe insurers need revised their IB

under promise, over deliver will get more clients for sure

 

[Shion]

cui, none hit above 4.75%

maybe insurers need revised their IB

under promise, over deliver will get more clients for sure

Unless someone can provide a 25-year duration, maybe still possible, I don't know

 

[icyboiz]

just to illiterate that par performance does NOT fully determine the bonuses credited to policies.

 

[soneat]

Reiterate not illiterate. The short/long term par fund performance will eventually have impact on insurer's payout. As most insurers have allocate a significant amount to local equities/bonds/properties and SG has experienced low growth in the past decade, par fund returns are expected to be on the low end. The surplus built up prior to 2000 should help to buffer a bit.

 

[icyboiz]

Reiterate not illiterate. The short/long term par fund performance will eventually have impact on insurer's payout. As most insurers have allocate a significant amount to local equities/bonds/properties and SG has experienced low growth in the past decade, par fund returns are expected to be on the low end. The surplus built up prior to 2000 should help to buffer a bit.

opps phone's autocorrect. yeah, but the data's not long enough to provide any substantial conclusion. afterall, we're looking at an on average 20-25 years par. on your last statement yeap right, that's the method they like to call it dollar cost averaging.

The reason why i want to reiterate it is that some people might look at the data and thinks that that's the % returns credited as bonuses to their policies, which is completely wrong as i have already seen someone making such statement few replies(#42) back.

 

[Mecisteus]

just to illiterate that par performance does NOT fully determine the bonuses credited to policies.

You are right. This is common sense.

1) The amount of bonuses must be less than the realized gains net of expenses from invested funds.

2) Even if the insurance company declares a one time high bonus, the total bonuses in the long term cannot be more than the long term realized gains from invested funds.

 

[icyboiz]

You are right. This is common sense.

1) The amount of bonuses must be less than the realized gains net of expenses from invested funds.

2) Even if the insurance company declares a one time high bonus, the total bonuses in the long term cannot be more than the long term realized gains from invested funds.

point number 1: not necessary if you're talking about per year basis.

point number 2: yeap that's for sure.

 

[soneat]

opps phone's autocorrect. yeah, but the data's not long enough to provide any substantial conclusion. afterall, we're looking at an on average 20-25 years par. on your last statement yeap right, that's the method they like to call it dollar cost averaging.

The reason why i want to reiterate it is that some people might look at the data and thinks that that's the % returns credited as bonuses to their policies, which is completely wrong as i have already seen someone making such statement few replies(#42) back.

Just my 2cents....

"The surplus built up prior to 2000 should help to buffer a bit"...this should be known as "bonus smoothing" rather than "dollar cost averaging".

Par fund return is quite simply, the returns for the par fund.

If the par fund can meet its 5.25% / 4.75% projection, then it is more likely to payout as per projected in that product. Other factors such as ethics will also determine how likely they will honour what they projected/promised.

Personally, if I look at AXA's past 3/5/10 years par fund return, I would be very reluctant to get AXA's life or endowment or annuities policies. Also, looking at TM's (formerly Asia Life) recent performance after they have been bought by TM, their par fund performance has been pathetic and if this persists, it will be a matter of time where they have to cut their bonus too.

And I also recall in the past, insurers do not publish (nor inform policyholders) their par fund returns. They only start informing their policyholders after MAS made it a requirement (sometime after 2000) to have provide greater disclosure.

 

[akwl88]

SPDR STI ETF Fund Performance
MONTH END AS OF 30 JUN 2016 QUARTER END AS OF 30 JUN 2016
1 YR -11.40% -11.40%
3 YR -0.47% -0.47%
5 YR 0.94% 0.94%
10 YR 4.71% 4.71%

Inception
11 Apr 2002 6.61% 6.61%

 

[icyboiz]

Just my 2cents....

"The surplus built up prior to 2000 should help to buffer a bit"...this should be known as "bonus smoothing" rather than "dollar cost averaging".

Par fund return is quite simply, the returns for the par fund.

If the par fund can meet its 5.25% / 4.75% projection, then it is more likely to payout as per projected in that product. Other factors such as ethics will also determine how likely they will honour what they projected/promised.

Personally, if I look at AXA's past 3/5/10 years par fund return, I would be very reluctant to get AXA's life or endowment or annuities policies. Also, looking at TM's (formerly Asia Life) recent performance after they have been bought by TM, their par fund performance has been pathetic and if this persists, it will be a matter of time where they have to cut their bonus too.

And I also recall in the past, insurers do not publish (nor inform policyholders) their par fund returns. They only start informing their policyholders after MAS made it a requirement (sometime after 2000) to have provide greater disclosure.

As mentioned, i just want to reiterate my point as stated earlier. i'm afraid i'm not in the position to discuss deeper into all this. thanks for your insights

 

[Shion]

Upz for 2016 figures

 

[SBC]

Not many will cross 2%, looking at last year economy conditions.

 

[akwl88]

Upz for 2016 figures

When published?

 

[Shion]

Not many will cross 2%, looking at last year economy conditions.

Agreed

When published?

Should be after mid of the year, 3Q

 

[soneat]

Agreed



Should be after mid of the year, 3Q

Income 2016 Par Fund Returns: 4.49%
http://www.income.com.sg/about-us/r...tails/participating-fund-update-for-2016.aspx

 

[blurpandasg2014]

If last yr when downturn they hoot gao gao, this yr sure huat. My stocks got saved by last yr oil downturn

 

[Shion]

Income 2016 Par Fund Returns: 4.49%
http://www.income.com.sg/about-us/r...tails/participating-fund-update-for-2016.aspx

Nice

 

[soneat]

Nice

Yup the return is not too bad...

 

[SBC]

Vast improvement for NTUC last-year return of 1.69%.

Well done.