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wealth_farmer

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If I understand this correctly, it means that they didn't allow you to make any withdrawals since you didn't deposit the full $10k at first, but once you added the remaining $4k, you could start withdrawing? So as long as one makes that initial $10k deposit, there will be no more restrictions, meaning that I can withdraw $5k after opening the account, buying some shares and then ensure I have the minimum + buffer?

I don't want to speculate on what are the conditions before IBKR will allow you to withdraw your cash because what I'm sharing is from personal experience, and I've not tried withdrawing funds from my account such that it falls below USD 10k.

What I'm suggesting is that you only put in the minimum to activate the account and lets you trade, and that you wouldn't need to initiate withdrawals.
 

proton91

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IWDA trades on LSE but in USD currency and LSE trades for USD commission is $5 minimum or 0.005%. So it is correct. The report shows SWDA incorrectly, you can ignore it. GBP minimum commission is 6 GBP. So you are better off trading the IWDA which is in USD.

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Question on this, if both IWDA and SWDA are similar ETF but in different currencies, why are the returns for both so different?

Referring to this:
IWDA: https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/IWDA:LN
SWDA: https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/SWDA:LN

For e.g. the 5 year returns for IWDA is 10.74% while it is 15.26% for SWDA.

Is that an effect of the currency difference?
 

revhappy

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Yeah, I've been looking up articles and reviews of IBKR vs Stanchart and it does seem that it's more worth it to go with IBKR in the long run. As for a margin account, I'm a bit iffy about using money that's not mine and I think I'll just open a normal account for now.



If I understand this correctly, it means that they didn't allow you to make any withdrawals since you didn't deposit the full $10k at first, but once you added the remaining $4k, you could start withdrawing? So as long as one makes that initial $10k deposit, there will be no more restrictions, meaning that I can withdraw $5k after opening the account, buying some shares and then ensure I have the minimum + buffer?



So as long as the value of my shares stay above $2k, I don't need to have a minimum cash balance in the account? Or is the minimum cash balance of $2k required no matter how many shares you have?
2k can be cash and/or shares in total, this is my interpretation of average equity balance. Equity as in like when you buy a home, your equity in the home is the down payment + whatever principal you have repaid. Same way average equity balance is the value that you will receive if you were to liquidate your portfolio immediately.

Regarding margin, it is like having a credit card. You don't have to use it but it gives you flexibility. In case of IB, advantage of margin is you can maintain cash in SGD for example and trade in USD, you will be charged interest but it is very small for USD. Also you can buy and sell shares multiple times without waiting for settlement, in a margin account. But I agree for the purpose of just buy and hold forever you probably won't need a margin account.

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revhappy

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Question on this, if both IWDA and SWDA are similar ETF but in different currencies, why are the returns for both so different?

Referring to this:
IWDA: https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/IWDA:LN
SWDA: https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/SWDA:LN

For e.g. the 5 year returns for IWDA is 10.74% while it is 15.26% for SWDA.

Is that an effect of the currency difference?
Yes, it is because sterling has fallen against USD, the returns in sterling appear to be higher. Both ETFs don't pay out dividends, rather accumulate them, so other than currency they should be the same.

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burger87

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IWDA trades on LSE but in USD currency and LSE trades for USD commission is $5 minimum or 0.005%. So it is correct. The report shows SWDA incorrectly, you can ignore it. GBP minimum commission is 6 GBP. So you are better off trading the IWDA which is in USD.

I see. So I should be looking under UK commissions, LSE International Order Book and USD-denominated stocks charges. Thanks!
 

proton91

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Yes, it is because sterling has fallen against USD, the returns in sterling appear to be higher. Both ETFs don't pay out dividends, rather accumulate them, so other than currency they should be the same.

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In Shiny's book, he has advocated building our overseas portfolio through IWDA. Given the better returns for the pound, should we be going with the SWDA instead?

Or would it be the case that the currency appreciation / deprecation has no impact on the underlying assets, so we can still stick to IWDA as per Shiny's advice?
 

revhappy

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In Shiny's book, he has advocated building our overseas portfolio through IWDA. Given the better returns for the pound, should we be going with the SWDA instead?

Or would it be the case that the currency appreciation / deprecation has no impact on the underlying assets, so we can still stick to IWDA as per Shiny's advice?

It is like this; if you buy 1 unit of IWDA and 1 unit of SWDA. If IWDA goes up 1% but pound falls 1% against USD then SWDA will go up by 0%. So it appears optically that IWDA has gone up, but if you convert to another 3rd currency say SGD, IWDA and SWDA value will be the same. So you should stick to IWDA, since USD commissions are lower than GBP commission, other than that there is no difference.
 

Shiny Things

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Thanks, Shiny! I'll do a 78-22 split on IWDA/CORP then. I'm guessing I can then diversify into local stocks and bonds once I've finally settled somewhere?

Yep, that'd be the plan.

Another question, this time IBKR-related. Can I deposit US$10,000 to open the account, buy US$750 worth of IWDA (as that's approx S$1,000, which is my current monthly allocation for investing), and then withdraw USS$7,250, leaving behind the minimum US$2,000? Or do I need to use up all US$10,000 that's in the account?

The reason for doing so is that I can "borrow" the amount for the account opening from my emergency funds. If I can't, I suppose I'll hold off on buying anything first until I've saved up the minimum deposit. Or should I just stick with Standard Chartered as it's much more straightforward? Just trying to see what the best long-term option would be with regard to SC's higher FX spread vs IBKR's monthly activity fee.

Mmm... in your case it's tricky. I think it's actually worth paying the IBKR monthly activity fee in your case, but I'd still wait until you've got $10k put together, otherwise you'll be paying $20 a month (because your balance is below $10k).


For all IB users currently, does that mean I must always maintain a minimum $10K USD in the account? So after buying my monthly worth of IWDA stocks, I will have to top-up every time to meet the 10k? Or is this simply a lump sum required to open the account?

Also, it states on the website that if Average Equity Balance is less than USD 2,000, the commission will be $USD 20 instead. What do they mean by average equity balance? Is that cash that is sitting in the account? Or it includes as well the total value of stocks that I hold with them?

In every case with IBKR, the "account minimums" refer to the total balance you've got with them: cash, plus stocks, plus bonds (minus any margin borrowings, but most of us aren't going to be using margin accounts anyway). So if you've got zero cash, but $15,000 in stocks, you'll only pay the $10 minimum activity fee, not $20.

Yesterday night I sold my 600 IWDA that I had invested a week ago as I saw $400 profit and markets at all time high and too many factors that can create a fall anytime, gave me cold feet.

You came in here looking for recommendations for a long-term investment, but so far your holding periods have been one day and one week.

I'll bet you a dollar that as soon as IWDA goes higher you're going to pile back into it because you regretted selling. And that's the absolute worst thing you can do: you're chasing things because they've gone up, and you'll sell things when they've gone down.

The other thing is: you know that all-time highs tend to lead to more all-time highs, right? Selling at an all-time high is usually a bad move.

Here's what I'd like you to do. You're trying to retire early, yeah? And you don't want to retire in Singapore? Take that $30k lump you keep trading back and forth. Stick half of it in IWDA, and half of it in CORP (a corporate bond fund)... and then stop looking at it. Delete Trader Workstation if you have to. Come back in six months and see how it looks.
 

Shiny Things

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Shiny, can you please help me understand this. In stock markets for every buyer there is a seller. Then why do people say people are "buying" heavily or people are "selling". In aggregate, shares are just changing hands, so what does it mean when they say, "cash is at record levels" or people are fully invested or leveraged? If we exclude IPOs and share buy backs, then the total number of shares is same and when one person is deploying cash another person is cashing out. Then how can it be a case of "cash levels are high

When markets are going up people are paying more and more to buy those same shares, but then someone is also getting paid more and more to sell those same shares isnt it? As people earn and save money obviously there will be more money chasing stocks and then they will pay someone to buy their stocks and that someone now has more money. So this seems to be an infinite loop as long as there is cash generation in the system.

So this is a good question, and it gets to the heart of a lot of criticisms of lazy financial journalism. "Cash on the sidelines" is a very silly way of looking at things - one person's "moving cash into the market" is, as you've pointed out, another person's "selling to raise cash".

A better way to think of it is: what valuations are people prepared to put on stocks?

If people are optimistic about stocks, they want to pay higher prices for the same company. So that drives the market up—on balance, people are trading at higher and higher prices, even though there's still one buyer and one seller per trade.

If people are pessimistic, they want to pay lower prices for the same company. So they lower their bids, or they start hitting offers; again, there's still one buyer and one seller, but the transactions happen at lower prices.

This is why price/earnings ratios are a useful metric (not CAPE though, that thing is a bit silly). If a stock goes from 10x earnings to 15x earnings, it's still the same stock, but people are more optimistic about its future growth prospects, so they're prepared to pay a higher multiple of current earnings—or, equivalently, a higher price for a stake in the company.
 

kingofkings86

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just want to clarify some doubts.
for e.g. i want to invest 3500sgd every mth
at age 30, it will be 80% stocks, 20% bonds.

es3 40% - 1400sgd
iwda 40% - 1400sgd = 1039.19usd
a35 20% - 700sgd

es3 and a35 will be pretty standard as its in sgd, my qn will be for iwda:
Am I right to say that I have to invest usd equivalent of 1400sgd instead of 1400usd in order to get the correct ratio?
which will be est. 1039.19 US Dollar as of right now?
because i realised that I will have to keep selling iwda every May/Nov if I were to invest 1400sgd of es3 and 1400usd of iwda as the ratio will be off.
I hope that I am doing the right thing by doing the conversion "1400sgd to usd" using google before purchasing iwda.
Please advise, thank you.
 

salmonella

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just want to clarify some doubts.
for e.g. i want to invest 3500sgd every mth
at age 30, it will be 80% stocks, 20% bonds.

es3 40% - 1400sgd
iwda 40% - 1400sgd = 1039.19usd
a35 20% - 700sgd

es3 and a35 will be pretty standard as its in sgd, my qn will be for iwda:
Am I right to say that I have to invest usd equivalent of 1400sgd instead of 1400usd in order to get the correct ratio?
which will be est. 1039.19 US Dollar as of right now?
because i realised that I will have to keep selling iwda every May/Nov if I were to invest 1400sgd of es3 and 1400usd of iwda as the ratio will be off.
I hope that I am doing the right thing by doing the conversion "1400sgd to usd" using google before purchasing iwda.
Please advise, thank you.

Yup. Compare allocations in the same currency.

Not sure if anyone encountered this. I bought the IWDA LSEETF in IB Trader Workstation, but the trades in my account management shows "SWDA", and I got charged USD5 for the comm instead of 0.005USD/share or min USD1, whichever is higher.

I understand that SWDA is traded in GBP so the min comm is USD5, but why is my trade under SWDA? Trader Workstation shows ticker as IWDA.

Also, switch from fixed pricing to tiered pricing, and the minimum commission per trade.goes down to usd 1.93 or so. Tiered is better for iwda, up till purchases of ~6k usd per trade.
 
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wealth_farmer

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How to account for dividend reinvestment?

Hi ST and fellow investors

I have a question on dividend reinvestment.

Let's say my monthly investment amount to split across my three ETFs is $1,000. And my 3-ETF portfolio just gave out a total of $100 dividends for the month (this is at portfolio level, not individual ETF level).

My question is: what should my fresh funds investment amount for the next month be?
a.) $900 in fresh funds, and top up with the $100 dividends to be total of $1,000, or
b.) $1,000 in fresh funds as usual and then adding the $100 dividends for a total of $1,100?

I want to adopt the method that is the generally accepted way that investors use in order to generate comparable "with-dividends-reinvested" returns metrics.

In both cases, I would still just use the total sum of money to buy the necessary ETFs to hit my target allocation ratio (i.e. whatever I'm short of), and not try and allocate the dividend to buy whichever ETF gave rise to that dividend, right?

Thanks for the advice as always!
 

Rhaegar

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I don't want to speculate on what are the conditions before IBKR will allow you to withdraw your cash because what I'm sharing is from personal experience, and I've not tried withdrawing funds from my account such that it falls below USD 10k.

What I'm suggesting is that you only put in the minimum to activate the account and lets you trade, and that you wouldn't need to initiate withdrawals.

2k can be cash and/or shares in total, this is my interpretation of average equity balance. Equity as in like when you buy a home, your equity in the home is the down payment + whatever principal you have repaid. Same way average equity balance is the value that you will receive if you were to liquidate your portfolio immediately.

Regarding margin, it is like having a credit card. You don't have to use it but it gives you flexibility. In case of IB, advantage of margin is you can maintain cash in SGD for example and trade in USD, you will be charged interest but it is very small for USD. Also you can buy and sell shares multiple times without waiting for settlement, in a margin account. But I agree for the purpose of just buy and hold forever you probably won't need a margin account.

Got it, thanks!

Yep, that'd be the plan.

Mmm... in your case it's tricky. I think it's actually worth paying the IBKR monthly activity fee in your case, but I'd still wait until you've got $10k put together, otherwise you'll be paying $20 a month (because your balance is below $10k).

In every case with IBKR, the "account minimums" refer to the total balance you've got with them: cash, plus stocks, plus bonds (minus any margin borrowings, but most of us aren't going to be using margin accounts anyway). So if you've got zero cash, but $15,000 in stocks, you'll only pay the $10 minimum activity fee, not $20.

Yeah, I think I'll put the $10k together first. Would it be worth buying a bit of IWDA and CORP first on SC and then spend some time building up that pool of money? I foresee it will take me several months to build that up. Since time spent in the stock market seems to be key, I was thinking it might be a good idea to just get that initial foot in the stock market door first.
 

salmonella

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So, I've mentioned previously that SCB charges USD 13 per counter for outward share transfer of USD-denominated assets on foreign markets... which is true for the usual suspects of IWDA, VUSD, VWRD, etc. This could be useful for folks to buy all their shares on SCB, get to SCB priority banking faster for lower trading fees and no minimum commissions, and perhaps to do a transfer to IBKR to get to 100k AUM at one go instead of paying $10 monthly activity fees.

I've also chatted with Aiko O on IBKR to confirm that they have no fees for inbound transfers (and also no fees for outbound transfers of UK shares).

Since it's cheaper to transfer than to sell and buy back, I'm testing the waters with my VWRD. The needed details are here:

Standard Chartered's Share Transfer Form
Name of Counterparty: Interactive Brokers LLC [UK CREST ID: 6DKAV]
Name of Contact Person: Clearing Operations
Email: assettransferservice@interactivebrokers.com
Telephone/Mobile Number: +41 41 726 9500
Fax: +41 41 726 9678

IB's Position Transfer Instruction
Account Management > Funding > Position Transfers
Transfer Method: International Assets
Type: Deposit
Instruction: Add New Instruction

Brokerage Firm / Bank Address Line 1: Wealth Management Operations, Standard Chartered Bank at Changi
Brokerage Firm / Bank Address Line 2: 7 Changi Business Park Crescent, Level 2
Brokerage Firm / Bank City: Singapore 486028
Brokerage Firm / Bank State/Province: Singapore
Brokerage Firm / Bank Country: Singapore
Contact Name: Eric Chow / Li Kay
Contact Email: sgwm.assettransfer@sc.com
Contact Phone: +65 6242 5333 SC says they coordinate transfers over email and do not provide a phone number but Aiko O says this is mandatory, so I've inserted the SCB online tradinge general enquiries hotline
Contact Fax: Left blank as it is optional, and SCB could not provide it


Yeah, I think I'll put the $10k together first. Would it be worth buying a bit of IWDA and CORP first on SC and then spend some time building up that pool of money? I foresee it will take me several months to build that up. Since time spent in the stock market seems to be key, I was thinking it might be a good idea to just get that initial foot in the stock market door first.

The US$20 fee is when Average Equity Balance is below US$2000, not US$10000. https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=4969

Since you have no need to trade on SGX, I think you should proceed with IB if you
- can put together the $2k
- can commit to at least one trade every month
- do not need to withdraw it (you should already have emergency funds set aside anyway)

On the other hand, you can buy on SCB first and transfer later, and the $26 fees to transfer 2 counters aren't that much in absolute terms, but it's still a significant percent of $2k.

My question is: what should my fresh funds investment amount for the next month be?
a.) $900 in fresh funds, and top up with the $100 dividends to be total of $1,000, or
b.) $1,000 in fresh funds as usual and then adding the $100 dividends for a total of $1,100?

I want to adopt the method that is the generally accepted way that investors use in order to generate comparable "with-dividends-reinvested" returns metrics.

Both options meet the definition of "with-dividends-reinvested" since the $100 dividends are reinvested. The amount of fresh funds you put in is outside the ambit of "with-dividends-reinvested", but the idea espoused here is to maintain the investments.

In both cases, I would still just use the total sum of money to buy the necessary ETFs to hit my target allocation ratio (i.e. whatever I'm short of), and not try and allocate the dividend to buy whichever ETF gave rise to that dividend, right?

Aye. This helps you keep you closer to your desired ratio and reduces the need to rebalance subsequently.

(Unless, of course, the $1100 is split over so many counters that the trading fees are too high)
 
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w1rbelw1nd

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Thanks, Shiny. I find it very hard to get my eyes off the markets. Kind of my favorite hobby right now. I just bought shares worth 2k each of Wells Fargo and Ahold Delhaize. So now I have 4 long term counters which I am not going to sell and the amount I have invested is really small, 2K each; RDS, Total, Ahold and WFC. I want to really build a portfolio and manage it. To me it is more than just making money, I want to be involved with it.

Well perhaps I cannot understand you just like how you cannot understand me...

To me investing or even more broadly financial planning is just to ensure that I have financial security and comfort for my entire life, with some money for my beneficiaries when I pass away.

I personally dont give a flying f*** what investments I hold, how they are doing, whether they are undervalued, whether they are in a sunset industry etc etc. To me, the markets dont give two hoots about my opinion, and wont pay me additional risk-adjusted returns for taking a concentrated position. To me investing is to have the best certainty to a reasonable return figure, which is why I choose to index.

Stock picking is just a way to add more uncertainty to our returns projections. It is utility diminishing.

Edit: Hope this doesnt come across as criticism, I am more than happy to agree on disagreeing with people of different opinions and principles :)
 
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w1rbelw1nd

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My question is: what should my fresh funds investment amount for the next month be?
a.) $900 in fresh funds, and top up with the $100 dividends to be total of $1,000, or
b.) $1,000 in fresh funds as usual and then adding the $100 dividends for a total of $1,100?

I would just go with the principle of "I want all my money working hard for me at any point of time, provided it is cost efficient" principle.

I do the same for bonuses, sudden higher expenses for the month (just paid for my gf trip to come to London to visit me xD) etc.
 

Shiny Things

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Got it, thanks!



Yeah, I think I'll put the $10k together first. Would it be worth buying a bit of IWDA and CORP first on SC and then spend some time building up that pool of money? I foresee it will take me several months to build that up. Since time spent in the stock market seems to be key, I was thinking it might be a good idea to just get that initial foot in the stock market door first.

Mmm... yeah, that's not a bad idea. You'll have to jump through the hoops that Salmonella so kindly described to transfer your stock holdings from Stanchart to Interactive, but as I say, it's never too early to start, as long as you can put a few hundred dollars a month together to invest.

My question is: what should my fresh funds investment amount for the next month be?
a.) $900 in fresh funds, and top up with the $100 dividends to be total of $1,000, or
b.) $1,000 in fresh funds as usual and then adding the $100 dividends for a total of $1,100?

Option B. Treat the dividends as bonus cash.

In both cases, I would still just use the total sum of money to buy the necessary ETFs to hit my target allocation ratio (i.e. whatever I'm short of), and not try and allocate the dividend to buy whichever ETF gave rise to that dividend, right?

Thanks for the advice as always!

De nada! And yep, you're right; just treat the dividends as bonus cash to invest and you'll do it right.

es3 and a35 will be pretty standard as its in sgd, my qn will be for iwda:
Am I right to say that I have to invest usd equivalent of 1400sgd instead of 1400usd in order to get the correct ratio?

Exactly right. As people pointedout upthread, you want to convert everything to a common currency to measure your portfolio.
 

revhappy

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Well perhaps I cannot understand you just like how you cannot understand me...

To me investing or even more broadly financial planning is just to ensure that I have financial security and comfort for my entire life, with some money for my beneficiaries when I pass away.

I personally dont give a flying f*** what investments I hold, how they are doing, whether they are undervalued, whether they are in a sunset industry etc etc. To me, the markets dont give two hoots about my opinion, and wont pay me additional risk-adjusted returns for taking a concentrated position. To me investing is to have the best certainty to a reasonable return figure, which is why I choose to index.

Stock picking is just a way to add more uncertainty to our returns projections. It is utility diminishing.

Edit: Hope this doesnt come across as criticism, I am more than happy to agree on disagreeing with people of different opinions and principles :)
Thanks, no we are all sharing ideas here, so everything is constructive, so no offense taken. I deleted my original post before you replied, reason, this is Shiny's thread about ETFs and a particular strategy and I am not sure if my trade related posts are going to confuse/annoy people.

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