Insurers' par fund CAGR FY2008 onwards

[maple96]

0.82?! Wow the sell off probably will hit all players badly.

i just did a quick estimate, still got more than 2% bonus on my policy

 

[xtwis7]

It’s all smoothing so a lot of people just think the bonuses they get are based on that year’s returns.

i just did a quick estimate, still got more than 2% bonus on my policy

 

[SBC]

When is bonus payout into the policy?

Does the surrender value of a policy rise linearly for the 12-mth period within the year?

 

[Shion]

Prudential FY18

-2.12%

https://www.prudential.com.sg/-/med...05797B2A3448535FEB9808B9D650FB1692B83847348C0

 

[Shion]

Updated

Let me know if the figures are wrong

Thanks

 

[SBC]

Is 2018 really that difficult year?

Looking like 2019 will be going.

 

[tangent314]

Is 2018 really that difficult year?

Yes, I explained it earlier on this thread https://deluxeforums.hardwarezone.com.sg/119239479-post381.html

 

[Shion]

You are all seriously way over optimistic.

MSCI World was down 8.2% in 2018 last year.
Expect PAR funds to be down about 2%.

We are indeed overly optimistic...

 

[hwmook]

Is 2018 really that difficult year?

Looking like 2019 will be going.

End of year got a big dip. 2019 will be good since the starting point is low.

 

[romeo88]

Hi Clubbie, fantastic job you’re doing there capturing the returns.

Is there a reason why before 2008 is not captured?

I’ve an AXA policy that started 1996 and I’m watching very closely what to do with it. This is top on the radar because AXA would in one fell-swoop, erase all the future projected bonuses and also not fulfilling bonuses in the BI (lower-case column) for past years.

Updated
Let me know if the figures are wrong
Thanks

 

[blurpandasg2014]

Hi Clubbie, fantastic job you’re doing there capturing the returns.

Is there a reason why before 2008 is not captured?

I’ve an AXA policy that started 1996 and I’m watching very closely what to do with it. This is top on the radar because AXA would in one fell-swoop, erase all the future projected bonuses and also not fulfilling bonuses in the BI (lower-case column) for past years.

Can share what axa plan did u get and what's the current value as compared to the projection?

I also have AXA policies and hope they mean what they project

 

[romeo88]

Yes, high time to take a very close look at AXA.

This remaining one is CI policy, and I was going to ask as well what's the usual years to break even (as in just premiums paid vs surrender).

I've said in another thread that another AXA policy I only got 1% return upon maturity, which was a straight endowment savings policy. Their maturity letter they even got the enjoyment to tell me 1% return is not bad what!

You should also look at what they're projecting now vs what was in the original BI.

When did you take up ?

Can share what axa plan did u get and what's the current value as compared to the projection?

I also have AXA policies and hope they mean what they project

 

[romeo88]

I'll share later when I got hold of the original BI.

Question to all: For CI policy (taken up in 1996), what's the usual (typical) year to break even (specifically premium paid vs surrender value) ?

Can share what axa plan did u get and what's the current value as compared to the projection?

I also have AXA policies and hope they mean what they project

 

[moejoseph]

I'll share later when I got hold of the original BI.

Question to all: For BI policy (taken up in 1996), what's the usual (typical) year to break even (specifically premium paid vs surrender value) ?

I heard AXA PAR Fund only started around 2006 or 2008, not sure if i'm correct, which is probably why returns are low for policies taken before that.

It was quite high based on their recent years return illustration.

 

[Shion]

Hi Clubbie, fantastic job you’re doing there capturing the returns.

Is there a reason why before 2008 is not captured?

I’ve an AXA policy that started 1996 and I’m watching very closely what to do with it. This is top on the radar because AXA would in one fell-swoop, erase all the future projected bonuses and also not fulfilling bonuses in the BI (lower-case column) for past years.

I do not have the figures before 2008

However based on my understanding, for the 3 years prior to 2008, the returns were on average 10+% across the insurers ?

 

[romeo88]

You meant before 2006, they didn't have PAR (participating) fund ? But my CI policy was taken in 1996

The screenshot is too low res to be discernible. Do you have the link ?

Thanks.

I heard AXA PAR Fund only started around 2006 or 2008, not sure if i'm correct, which is probably why returns are low for policies taken before that.

It was quite high based on their recent years return illustration.

 

[moejoseph]

You meant before 2006, they didn't have PAR (participating) fund ? But my CI policy was taken in 1996

The screenshot is too low res to be discernible. Do you have the link ?

Thanks.

Try this https://ibb.co/23WBRf2

It shows a constant 4.20% - 4.75% bonus (The higher tier illustrated).
Table is provided by AXA btw


https://www.asiaone.com/business/does-it-pay-stick-big-name-insurance
"Insurers that are doing well may not be generous with the bonus as distribution policies are not transparent, said a veteran. So even if some insurers are not frequently in the top quartile, they could be doing better with their bonuses."


I read it here, unless u are telling me this website is wrong
https://sgcompareinsurance.com/insurance-participating-fund-performance/
"AXA insurance participating fund started around 2006. Before 2005, AXA focused on term insurance, health insurance and investment link plans."

 

[blurpandasg2014]

You should also look at what they're projecting now vs what was in the original BI.

When did you take up ?

I took up in 2016. Surprisingly their projection currently in statement is more than what is projected in BI

Later go back I post pic of my 2 policies and the most recent statement

 

[romeo88]

Got it. Thanks.

Try this https://ibb.co/23WBRf2

It shows a constant 4.20% - 4.75% bonus (The higher tier illustrated).
Table is provided by AXA btw

As one who’s got burnt, it certainly is true. As many have said, nothing is guaranteed. Not even the lower-end scenario (3.25% column). The policy wordings always state it as “bonus is not guaranteed” – this would mean the insurer contractually does not need to pay you any bonus throughout the policy.

That makes me wonder what’s the use of the MAS guidelines of 3.25 & 4.75% (previously much higher).

Coming back, we all know any investments have it’s ups and downs. What will be disgusting is when the insurer had one bad year, they wipe out all future projections from its original BI, AXA is one big example. So it’s certainly important to see how well insurers value its goodwill and its forums like this that we can share.

Below actually happened to me and the revised bonus never got reverted back even though they had good years subsequently:

[For instance, in 2009, "AXA adjusted downwards the reversionary bonuses of selected products in response to the severe economic downturn in 2008, as well as the lower expectation on future interest rates", said AXA Singapore chief financial officer Sean Yang.]

https://www.asiaone.com/business/does-it-pay-stick-big-name-insurance
"Insurers that are doing well may not be generous with the bonus as distribution policies are not transparent, said a veteran. So even if some insurers are not frequently in the top quartile, they could be doing better with their bonuses."

I got the AXA policies in the mid 90s and they are definitely participating. So I’d say the statement is factually wrong or phrased wrongly.

I read it here, unless u are telling me this website is wrong
https://sgcompareinsurance.com/insurance-participating-fund-performance/
"AXA insurance participating fund started around 2006. Before 2005, AXA focused on term insurance, health insurance and investment link plans."

 

[xtwis7]

Track record of companies all play a part. Newer companies can come in to give you much nicer projections and people start comparing dollars and cents, then one bad year and all these fancy figures get brought back down to earth.

You want a peace of mind, go for track record, not whichever gives you the highest projections.