Planning next move after selling HDB

pytha6ora$

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Aim to sell our hdb away when mop next year.

If all goes according to plan, probably end up with 600k+ (500k cash + 100k sg stocks). Both us have $0 cpf since self employed.

We plan to use this money to study and get a regular pay job for the next step of life.

Suppose we buy a old resale small unit ~300k to live off, not looking to big space. That's left with around 300k. Should we use the left over cash to buy more stocks or is there a better option?

Both us just aim to have a stable simple living with less worry on the finances. Ty.
 

BBCWatcher

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Aim to sell our hdb away when mop next year.

If all goes according to plan, probably end up with 600k+ (500k cash + 100k sg stocks). Both us have $0 cpf since self employed.
I think you mean zero in your CPF Ordinary and Special Accounts, right? CPF MediSave contributions are still compulsory for self-employed Singaporean citizens and PRs in Singapore who have turnover.

Your CPF OA and SA balances don’t have to be zero! Just because something is compulsory or not doesn’t indicate anything about whether it’s a good deal or not. You could be passing up as much as 5% interest plus tax relief, and you’ve got a couple more days (via PayNow QR contribution/top up channels) to claim tax relief for 2020 (Year of Assessment 2021). Since you seem to have plenty of liquidity, and more coming, I think I would.

We plan to use this money to study and get a regular pay job for the next step of life.

Suppose we buy a old resale small unit ~300k to live off, not looking to big space. That's left with around 300k. Should we use the left over cash to buy more stocks or is there a better option?
OA can be used for housing and education in Singapore, and SA+OA+MA contributions qualify for tax relief when you’re self-employed, assuming you have enough remaining taxable income. I wouldn’t buy “too old” though. My point of view is that you take the age of the younger spouse, subtract it from 105, and buy a flat with a modest leasehold that’s no less than that number. That’s because you could end up needing to live in it for the rest of your lives. In the current interest rate environment I would finance it.

So let’s suppose the youngest spouse is age 30, thus 75 years or more would be the result of that formula — i.e. 1996 or later build. Could you get such a 3 room resale flat for ~$300K? Let’s take a look at PropertyGuru for asking prices.... Yes, it probably works. There are some young (even very young) 3 room resale flats listed with asking prices starting at $320,000. If you want a 2 room flat then there are even more choices.
 
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Project_Xco

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Aim to sell our hdb away when mop next year.

If all goes according to plan, probably end up with 600k+ (500k cash + 100k sg stocks). Both us have $0 cpf since self employed.

We plan to use this money to study and get a regular pay job for the next step of life.

Suppose we buy a old resale small unit ~300k to live off, not looking to big space. That's left with around 300k. Should we use the left over cash to buy more stocks or is there a better option?

Both us just aim to have a stable simple living with less worry on the finances. Ty.

What's your monthly expenses, debts and commitments? Plus how are old are you?
 

zoneguard

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I just want to add a suggestion to diversify beyond sg stocks and buy overseas stocks.

There's plenty of threads on which overseas stocks to get.
 

BBCWatcher

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I just want to add a suggestion to diversify beyond sg stocks and buy overseas stocks.
As a general matter, yes, agreed. Reasonable global diversification is important. For near-term savings to support educational pursuits — for that portion of total household wealth — stocks of any sort are not appropriate.
 

pytha6ora$

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I think you mean zero in your CPF Ordinary and Special Accounts, right? CPF MediSave contributions are still compulsory for self-employed Singaporean citizens and PRs in Singapore who have turnover.

Your CPF OA and SA balances don’t have to be zero! Just because something is compulsory or not doesn’t indicate anything about whether it’s a good deal or not. You could be passing up as much as 5% interest plus tax relief, and you’ve got a couple more days (via PayNow QR contribution/top up channels) to claim tax relief for 2020 (Year of Assessment 2021). Since you seem to have plenty of liquidity, and more coming, I think I would.


OA can be used for housing and education in Singapore, and SA+OA+MA contributions qualify for tax relief when you’re self-employed, assuming you have enough remaining taxable income. I wouldn’t buy “too old” though. My point of view is that you take the age of the younger spouse, subtract it from 105, and buy a flat with a modest leasehold that’s no less than that number. That’s because you could end up needing to live in it for the rest of your lives. In the current interest rate environment I would finance it.

So let’s suppose the youngest spouse is age 30, thus 75 years or more would be the result of that formula — i.e. 1996 or later build. Could you get such a 3 room resale flat for ~$300K? Let’s take a look at PropertyGuru for asking prices.... Yes, it probably works. There are some young (even very young) 3 room resale flats listed with asking prices starting at $320,000. If you want a 2 room flat then there are even more choices.

Grateful for your reply. Yes we have very little in OA and SA. Have regular payment to MA which is a must for self-employed.

Now that we can afford a small house without loan. Will start to look to add into OA and SA for next move.

We prepare to have little or no income for the next couple of years if we start to study. The money save during all these years should tide us through for awhile.

Picking next place to stay is our concern. We try to live within our means.
 

pytha6ora$

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What's your monthly expenses, debts and commitments? Plus how are old are you?

The only debt we have is the hdb mortgage loan. We in the mid 30s are spending ard 3k per month including the loan we have to pay.

Without the mortgage loan will give us more leeway and flexibility.
 

pytha6ora$

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I just want to add a suggestion to diversify beyond sg stocks and buy overseas stocks.

There's plenty of threads on which overseas stocks to get.

Been very careful with stocks since the beginning. Only started buying during the covid-19 period as a starting point.

I'm reading comments and opinions on overseas stocks. Going with the safe options of Appl, alibaba in hk if possible. May start to buy in lion-ocbc hktech etf in small portion.

Have standard char trading account, but have not find out if I can buy hk stock because I only have usd settlement acc,dont have hkd settlement account. Possible to buy hk stock without hkd settlement account?
 

zoneguard

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Have standard char trading account, but have not find out if I can buy hk stock because I only have usd settlement acc,dont have hkd settlement account. Possible to buy hk stock without hkd settlement account?

I only do ETFs. There's also a Standard Chartered trading thread where you can pose your question. I don't trade HKD myself so I don't know if they can do non-SGD settlement without the matching account - probably not. There's a LiveFX function as well.
 

Nofear40

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The only debt we have is the hdb mortgage loan. We in the mid 30s are spending ard 3k per month including the loan we have to pay.

Without the mortgage loan will give us more leeway and flexibility.
That is very little... do you have kids and insurance?
 

chrisloh65

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Cannot.
You have to open a HKD Securities Settlement account and deposit your HKD into there. How much HKD shares you can buy is determined by how much HKD you deposited into the HKD Securities Settlement account.


Been very careful with stocks since the beginning. Only started buying during the covid-19 period as a starting point.

I'm reading comments and opinions on overseas stocks. Going with the safe options of Appl, alibaba in hk if possible. May start to buy in lion-ocbc hktech etf in small portion.

Have standard char trading account, but have not find out if I can buy hk stock because I only have usd settlement acc,dont have hkd settlement account. Possible to buy hk stock without hkd settlement account?
 

gnoes85

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300k if u buy sg stocks, cannot retire.
If buy US stock, can retire late.
If buy top 10 crypto, can retire 2 years later
 

skpuppy

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Been very careful with stocks since the beginning. Only started buying during the covid-19 period as a starting point.

I'm reading comments and opinions on overseas stocks. Going with the safe options of Appl, alibaba in hk if possible. May start to buy in lion-ocbc hktech etf in small portion.

Have standard char trading account, but have not find out if I can buy hk stock because I only have usd settlement acc,dont have hkd settlement account. Possible to buy hk stock without hkd settlement account?

You need hkd to buy hkd stocks. You also need access to hang seng market.
 

Project_Xco

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The only debt we have is the hdb mortgage loan. We in the mid 30s are spending ard 3k per month including the loan we have to pay.

Without the mortgage loan will give us more leeway and flexibility.

considering your situation where you are living off savings for a few years, i will put that few years sum on safer investment esp and more bonds.

the excess I will put on mid risky portfolio so if markets not behaving, you won't be worried as you have your few years sum in safer portfolio.
 

reddevil0728

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Thats what my anti-crypto peers told me and laugh at me when I all in bitcoin when it was 5k.

Now I just laugh at them, no face given.

Still one wrong move and it can all gone then the joke will be on you.
 

hwmook

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Thats what my anti-crypto peers told me and laugh at me when I all in bitcoin when it was 5k.

Now I just laugh at them, no face given.

You can afford to gamble but not everybody can do so, don't go around advocating people to gamble like you.
 

BBCWatcher

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Grateful for your reply. Yes we have very little in OA and SA. Have regular payment to MA which is a must for self-employed.

Now that we can afford a small house without loan. Will start to look to add into OA and SA for next move....
I want to focus a moment on this comment you made, that you will be able to afford a ~$300K HDB resale flat without a loan. That's great, congratulations! But that doesn't mean you should pay all cash for your HDB resale flat. You really shouldn't, not if you're a financially responsible couple. Last I checked (recently) you can borrow money from DBS at 1.5% interest with a 5 year rate lock -- pretty impressive for Singapore, actually. If you were to borrow $250K (i.e. the flat costs $333K with 25% down) with a 25 year mortgage then your monthly payment would be under S$1K. Even if you were to put that S$250K in Singapore Savings Bonds you could pay a S$1K/month mortgage for over 20 years! You maintain S$250K more liquidity, which is very nice indeed. You're prepared for lots of family emergencies, and you can stay in your flat for a long, long time.

OK, so let's suppose you were to (foolishly, in my view, in these market conditions) pay all cash. What happens when there's a family emergency? Well, you have S$250K less liquidity. That means if you don't have enough other cash -- and remember, you're embarking on an unpaid educational sabbatical, so there's no more income from work coming in presumably, so you're drawing down assets -- you'll be forced to sell the HDB resale flat you just bought, maybe quickly. You cannot borrow against HDB leasehold equity. Once it's in the flat, the only way to get it back out is to sell the flat.

In my view the much smarter play is to take the cheap loan, and the 5 year rate lock also matches up well with your M.O.P. and your educational sabbatical, presumably. Then invest the ~S$250K. Invest it prudently, in an age and risk appropriate way, in a couple low cost vehicles, and with ample diversification, I'd advise. Over the medium to long term you should have absolutely no trouble whatsoever beating 1.5% interest. Heck, even your CPF Ordinary Accounts beat 1.5% like a drum, albeit with less liquidity than general investing (still with housing liquidity, though). This way you'll have much more liquidity to deal with any family emergencies, you're far more likely to become wealthier faster, and you're far less likely to be forced to sell your home to cope with an emergency.

If interest rates were to soar after the 5 year rate lock, no problem, you've got the liquidity to pay off the loan if it makes sense. "Soar" doesn't mean 2.0%, for example -- that's still cheap money.
 

Jay9999

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I suppose the main problem for most people would be to invest the large amount at one go or multiple tranches along the way, assume the amount to be $250k.

By conventional knowledge, we know its good to invest and take a loan, but in actual fact, most of the people that I know will choose to pay back early, or place the said amount in FD earning 0.5%p.a.

Just my $0.02
 
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