Challenging ShinyThing assumptions.

ExtremeWays

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ST strategy encourages people to invest their money frequently since they cannot beat the market. This is generally good enough for people. However, we need to find a way to optimise how much leverage and ratio of our savings used on investing.
 

limster

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leverage will multiply your gains and losses. if you do not have a solid and consistent track record of profits including surviving a market crash, you shouldn't even consider leverage.

during the last GFC cheap sale, after I ran out of cash, I used CPF-OA to the limit , and then used CPF-SA to continuing investing. maybe investors should consider using CPF rather than leverage.
 

Mecisteus

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The approach and strategy are sound. But the allocation is entirely up to you.

If you are a CEO, you can choose to invest all of your monthly disposable income.
 

AMD_FREAK

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Is there anywhere I can find summarized ST strategy? Too many pages to go through :o
 

Perisher

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Good to always challenge and question any strategy to see if it can be improved.
 

flikmy

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leverage will multiply your gains and losses. if you do not have a solid and consistent track record of profits including surviving a market crash, you shouldn't even consider leverage.

during the last GFC cheap sale, after I ran out of cash, I used CPF-OA to the limit , and then used CPF-SA to continuing investing. maybe investors should consider using CPF rather than leverage.

Actually, on top of just leverage multiplying your gains and losses, using leverage also costs. Unless you're able to get cheap funding for a very long time, leverage will eat into your gains. The way investing is talked about on the Shiny Things thread, it's a buy and hold strategy for multi decades. It'll be harder (and more expensive) to get leverage with that kind of tenor.

One possible option though is for a cash rich person that might be buying a property. Instead of putting cash on the property, he/she gets a loan and the cash at hand is used for investing. But you might call this false as the leverage at the end of the day is on the property and not the investment.
 

wealth_farmer

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Interesting question by TS.

So buying every month is because we usually won’t have a lump sum to invest. We know the importance of setting aside a sum of money each month (whether for savings or investments) otherwise we will never be able to retire or meet our goals. Therefore unknowingly, we are all using DCA when doing our investments.

TS has asked the same question about ratio between savings and investments and his definition of both. I think the prudent answer is: it depends. The only constant is that investment is a long-term thing so you should only invest money that you won’t need for a long time, measured in decades. Speculation/trading is another story that I won’t touch on here but suffice to say that speculation money you must be prepared to lose. In terms of ratio between savings/investment, that number depends on your changing circumstances. A single person with no financial or family commitments and with a fair amount of self-discipline can set aside more for investment. However he or she will also need to consider if they want to buy a property or set money aside for wedding, so it depends on what life events one is expecting. There is no hard and fast rule for that ratio and you have to decide (prudently) for yourself.

Short answer: have an adequate rainy day fund set aside, add an additional layer of savings for life events you foresee, factor in reasonable and realistic living expenses and the rest you can chuck into the investment bucket.

And when you’ve done it right, you’ll find that you can sleep comfortably at night and when the market tanks hard, you’ll feel a slight tightening of your stomach but you remain in emotional control; in fact if you’ve been prudent, you’ll even feel a small glee at the prospect of blood on the market for some Great Singapore Sale-type cheap purchases. That’s my personal yardstick for how I know I’ve got the right mix for my own financial matters.
 

ExtremeWays

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You guys still trap in ensemble average way of looking at things????? Risks of ruin? Time irreversibility?
 

ExtremeWays

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Can you elaborate more? Otherwise it sounds like you’re just trolling.

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ExtremeWays

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Basically, why people say invest in stock market is good? Because overall on averge the market had grown. But this is an ensemble view. In real life, When time is lost, we cannot regain back. we are individuals living across time. We should avoid over leveraging our money on investing. Hence an optimal leverage must be derived.
 

w1rbelw1nd

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TS question is meaningless without any figures on cost of debt. Cost of debt varies for individuals, and can lead to an "optimal" solution of a huge range of leverage.
 

limster

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Leverage is a different concept. I don't think ST recommends leverage. Why do you even bring this word in the discussion here?

I'm not even sure that the TS knows anything about investing. :s13:
 

frenchbriefs

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Basically, why people say invest in stock market is good? Because overall on averge the market had grown. But this is an ensemble view. In real life, When time is lost, we cannot regain back. we are individuals living across time. We should avoid over leveraging our money on investing. Hence an optimal leverage must be derived.

Over leverage?so how much cash or gold, property or safe assets should one have?200k enough?
 
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