ElderShield committee proposes scheme be made compulsory, members to start paying premiums at age 30

[crimsontactics]

If an insurance is not necessary, can opt-out, and will not cause most to go bankrupt even if you hit it (just pay $28k only, won't even cause a dent to most people who have >$171k in their CPF RA accont), then it is unnecessary and a waste of money!

Nope.

Insurance is meant for society's good.

It ensures that people don't fall too far if any unfortunate thing were to happen to them.

Just because most people don't use them doesn't mean it isn't good.

Because people with problems have a disproportional larger negative effect on our community.

 

[crimsontactics]

Dun just give words. . Give me numbers like what i did. . Can you?

Can.

$4549 cost to get $28800 benefit.

633% returns.

 

[crimsontactics]

Just like Medishield Life? Premium goes up >200% but payout increases a little bit? Better not! We rather for-go

Payout increase by a lot, especially for how cheap the insurance is even after the increase!

You now no longer have a lifetime limit.

People with existing illness can also join in.

If this isn't a lot, I don't know what is lol!

 

[BBCWatcher]

You now no longer have a lifetime limit.

Nor any age limit. Previously your coverage dropped to $0 at age 92, even if you were willing and able to pay premiums.

 

[buaytuckchek]

Put money aside, if I were to suffer 3/6 criteria, I rather die than live in such a condition.

 

[fr33d0m]

The thing about eldershield is it is more comparable to tpd rather than disability insurance.
To claim disability .one dun need 3/6 thing cannot do. So claiming disability is much easier than eldershield which explains why only 100m payout.
To be able to claim eldershield 3/6.. is either bedridden or coma vegetable.. extreme disability. . Which if u can claim eldershield. . Then tpd u definately can claim. . So eldershield claim is more comparable to tpd. N comparing tpd premium. . It def cost lesser n gives higher payout n in one lump sum.

TPD stops at 65.

Eldershield is for life.

A person has much higher chance of disability after 65 than before 65.

 

[laksa2003]

TPD stops at 65.

Eldershield is for life.

A person has much higher chance of disability after 65 than before 65.

U need more money before 65 cos of your dependants if you tio tpd. 100k upfront at 4.10 monthly is better value than $400 monthly which does not help much
After 65.. your dependant can earn his living n can support u. On top of that. . U got your cpf life payout n also your savings. I m worried if one dun even have $28k at 65..
Meanwhile. .at 65. You got $9.3k in your medisave pocket physically which can be used for other purpose.
Eldershield cover extreme disability. .not simple disability. Simple disability cannot claim cos of the super strict 3/6 criteria. That explains why only 100m payout only from 2.6b premium

 

[laksa2003]

Also, Mindef Aviva Insurance only cover you till 70.

Total premiums between 66 to 70 is a shocking $5244, not inclusive of premiums paid from starting age to 65.

It is way more expensive than Eldershield, hence the better benefits.

one only needs to cover till 65. The rest after 65 should be cover by savings n cpf life n children support.

 

[laksa2003]

Put money aside, if I were to suffer 3/6 criteria, I rather die than live in such a condition.

Ya.... extreme disability is very depressing. .

 

[BBCWatcher]

Put money aside, if I were to suffer 3/6 criteria, I rather die than live in such a condition.

1. Who's going to help you commit suicide? (Which isn't actually legal in Singapore.)

2. Do you feel that everyone should be financially pressured to commit suicide (and with assistance) in such circumstances? Is that the public policy you recommend?

 

[BBCWatcher]

The rest after 65 should be cover by savings n cpf life n children support.

1. Would you agree that most parents don't want to burden their children with financial and other such responsibilities for their own care -- that they don't view their children as insurance policies, and that they want to provide for their own needs and risks?

2. Did it occur to you that many children cannot bear such burdens? For example, they might be disabled.

3. Have you noticed the reality of modern Singapore that the birthrate is 1.2 (competing for the title of world's lowest birthrate), and that there are large and increasing numbers of adults who have no children? (And there have always been adults who physically cannot have children, even if they want to have children.)

As it happens, I think the government ought to do more to encourage and support adoptions, both domestically and from other countries. For some strange reason there's still a social and cultural stigma attached to adoption in Singapore, and frankly I don't understand it. That said, children ought not be insurance policies. That approach already doesn't work.

 

[fr33d0m]

After 65.. your dependant can earn his living n can support u.

That's wishful thinking. Your dependent has his/her own financial liability, such as housing, kids, etc. Don't give more burden to him/her.

On top of that. . U got your cpf life payout n also your savings. I m worried if one dun even have $28k at 65..
Meanwhile. .at 65. You got $9.3k in your medisave pocket physically which can be used for other purpose.

With or without disability, people need these money for retirement. Eldershield is meant to supplement the unfortunates so that the retirement money will not deplete too fast.

 

[laksa2003]

1. Would you agree that most parents don't want to burden their children with financial and other such responsibilities for their own care -- that they don't view their children as insurance policies, and that they want to provide for their own needs and risks?

2. Did it occur to you that many children cannot bear such burdens? For example, they might be disabled.

3. Have you noticed the reality of modern Singapore that the birthrate is 1.2 (competing for the title of world's lowest birthrate), and that there are large and increasing numbers of adults who have no children? (And there have always been adults who physically cannot have children, even if they want to have children.)

As it happens, I think the government ought to do more to encourage and support adoptions, both domestically and from other countries. For some strange reason there's still a social and cultural stigma attached to adoption in Singapore, and frankly I don't understand it. That said, children ought not be insurance policies. That approach already doesn't work.

yes, I will agree, that's why I say savings, cpf life, passive income (investment or rental income) and children support.. different people have different source of income after 65.
I did not say.. "children support" only.

 

[laksa2003]

That's wishful thinking. Your dependent has his/her own financial liability, such as housing, kids, etc. Don't give more burden to him/her.



With or without disability, people need these money for retirement. Eldershield is meant to supplement the unfortunates so that the retirement money will not deplete too fast.

U did not quote my full sentence. I say children support. . Cpf life. Savings. .. whichever apply to you. .since when i say only children? ?
Eldershield is gd concept i agree but too strict criteria. . Too high premium n too low payout.
If u withdraw from medisave.to pay premium . U have less medisave for your hospital bill n other medisave usage. How easy is one to claim that 400 monthly? Only extreme disability. . Not just simple disability. If one does not strike extreme disability. .that's tens thousands of medisave gone..

 

[BBCWatcher]

Eldershield is gd concept i agree but too strict criteria. . Too high premium n too low payout.

There's the conundrum. If you make it easier to qualify for disability benefits, then the cost (premium) increases. If you increase the payout amount, then the cost (premium) increases. There are some efficiencies that can be achieved in the shift to a public non-profit insurer and compulsory coverage, but that only gets you so far.

In my view we (Singapore) ought to "bite the bullet" and just get it done. Change the benefit qualification rules to "2 out of 6 ADLs" -- relax them at least that much -- and increase the payouts to $1,000/month (2018 dollars, automatically adjusted annually for elder inflation). Coverage begins from birth and with no pre-existing condition qualifications. Payouts are treated as ordinary income for income tax purposes. (Almost nobody would actually owe income tax on benefits, but most well-to-do individuals would. That's fair. Income tax collected on benefits would be earmarked and plowed back into the program.) Make the program compulsory, and provide premium subsidies to lower income citizens. Premiums start from age 25 and end at age 50, 60, or somewhere in between. There's a transition program for older Singaporeans to get into the new "DisabilityShield Life." There's no 72 month cap on benefits. Benefits last as long as the disability lasts. There is, however, a 3 month waiting period before benefits start, so short-term disability is not covered. (There's room there for an "Integrated Disability Shield" private sector top-up, plus a monthly benefit amount top-up, for those who are interested in buying up.) Benefits are coordinated with a (subsidized, if necessary) CPF LIFE Escalating Plan cutover at age 65.

....And that's that, done and dusted. Yes, it'll be "expensive," but disability plus poverty = major suckage. Let's just do it.

 

[fr33d0m]

U did not quote my full sentence. I say children support. . Cpf life. Savings. .. whichever apply to you. .since when i say only children? ?
Eldershield is gd concept i agree but too strict criteria. . Too high premium n too low payout.
If u withdraw from medisave.to pay premium . U have less medisave for your hospital bill n other medisave usage. How easy is one to claim that 400 monthly? Only extreme disability. . Not just simple disability. If one does not strike extreme disability. .that's tens thousands of medisave gone..

Why do you have to withdraw Medisave to pay for ElderShield premium? You have this saving and that saving, blahblah.

That's tens thousands of money went to another unfortunate person. Not gone.

If you are so self-centered, you ought not to have any insurance because you are surely giving your money to the unfortunate ones.

 

[fr33d0m]

There's the conundrum. If you make it easier to qualify for disability benefits, then the cost (premium) increases. If you increase the payout amount, then the cost (premium) increases. There are some efficiencies that can be achieved in the shift to a public non-profit insurer and compulsory coverage, but that only gets you so far.

In my view we (Singapore) ought to "bite the bullet" and just get it done. Change the benefit qualification rules to "2 out of 6 ADLs" -- relax them at least that much -- and increase the payouts to $1,000/month (2018 dollars, automatically adjusted annually for elder inflation). Coverage begins from birth and with no pre-existing condition qualifications. Payouts are treated as ordinary income for income tax purposes. (Almost nobody would actually owe income tax on benefits, but most well-to-do individuals would. That's fair. Income tax collected on benefits would be earmarked and plowed back into the program.) Make the program compulsory, and provide premium subsidies to lower income citizens. Premiums start from age 25 and end at age 50, 60, or somewhere in between. There's a transition program for older Singaporeans to get into the new "DisabilityShield Life." There's no 72 month cap on benefits. Benefits last as long as the disability lasts. There is, however, a 3 month waiting period before benefits start, so short-term disability is not covered. (There's room there for an "Integrated Disability Shield" private sector top-up, plus a monthly benefit amount top-up, for those who are interested in buying up.) Benefits are coordinated with a (subsidized, if necessary) CPF LIFE Escalating Plan cutover at age 65.

....And that's that, done and dusted. Yes, it'll be "expensive," but disability plus poverty = major suckage. Let's just do it.

It could cost more than thousand a year to have such benefit in the late years.

Almost everyone eventually will develop some kind of disability before they die, especially with longer life. Alzheimer easily kicked in after 80, 90 years old.

 

[Perisher]

Why do you have to withdraw Medisave to pay for ElderShield premium? You have this saving and that saving, blahblah.

That's tens thousands of money went to another unfortunate person. Not gone.

If you are so self-centered, you ought not to have any insurance because you are surely giving your money to the unfortunate ones.

Think the issue is, it's not actually going anywhere but the insurance company's pocket. At least, the 90% bulk of it.

 

[laksa2003]

Why do you have to withdraw Medisave to pay for ElderShield premium? You have this saving and that saving, blahblah.

That's tens thousands of money went to another unfortunate person. Not gone.

If you are so self-centered, you ought not to have any insurance because you are surely giving your money to the unfortunate ones.

How many unfortunate person benefit so far. .lets see.. 100m payout from 2.6b premium. ..hmmm

 

[fr33d0m]

Think the issue is, it's not actually going anywhere but the insurance company's pocket. At least, the 90% bulk of it.

You can say that the money is still on the account of the insurance company and to be dispersed as most of the insured are not dead yet. Not the insurance company's pocket.