Do Roman "Catholic" dogmas contradict the Bible?

[codemasterguy]

Do Roman "Catholic" dogmas contradict the Bible?

There are two types of person asking these kind of questions;because you seem to understand/read some bible passages.
1. the real chatolic who asking questions to understand more
2. just another protestants who wants to argue about chatolic teaching.

You are very likely #2.

If you are #1, read more some readings in Chatecism of the Chatolic Church and many apologist such as Scott Han. There are many apologetics source out there to read.

If you are #2, don't waste every one time. Just like any other debate, you read from your own version of bible, chatolic read from its own bible.

It's the same as debate between islam and christians. One read from bible, the other read from alquran. We will never meet common ground.

Do you want to convert/argue, try converting other religion which is not believer of Jesus, or consolidate your thousands of denomination church who has its own teaching, its own bible and interpretations. Which denomination are you?

Do you believe in Prosperity gospel, the modern church teaching? Seems very popular among protestants.

If you do, please pray and read your bible again, before looking at Catholic to kepo.

If you don't, you are not the same as other protestants. So you want to come out with different teaching if you dont' believe it?

And what's your point of view about LGBT? Some denomination already can bless LGBT marriage. SHM.

 

[ProLogic]

Doesn't matter. There are different parts of the body of christ, performing different functions.

There is only one criteria.

Whosoever believe Jesus is the son of God who paid your sin penalty, he goes heaven. John 3:16. He is part of the body of christ.

Doesn't matter whether he writes Roman Catholic or Christian in his iC.

Jesus did not ask the thief hanging beside him, Are you roman Catholic or Christian, before admitting him into heaven.

My common sense ish telling moi that while it ish sound very noble, loving and inclusive to use just one criteria and one lowest common denominator the issue ish whether the Gospel ish have been compromised when a person ish notch really believe in the all-sufficiency of the finished work on the cross and ish believe that he ish also need a co-redemptrix? Ish it really dontch matter that the Bible ish says there ish one mediator ergo Jesus but yet the RC ish saying there ish another co-mediator and co-redeemer? Ish it really moemuntai to add to what Christ ish done on the cross for our salvation?

https://www.gotquestions.org/Mary-redemptrix-mediatrix.html

 

[ProLogic]

Having said that, this verse appears in both the Catholic and Protestant bible.

Ecclesiastes 9:7
Go, eat your bread with joy,
And drink your wine with a merry heart;
For God has already accepted your works.

How often is it when you attend a catholic mass that eucharist is a sombre affair, when clearly their bibles tell them it is not?

It is to be taken with joy! And be merry! Laugh!

Acts 2:46
They worshiped together at the Temple each day, met in homes for the Lord’s Supper, and shared their meals with great joy and generosity

Ish true ish true. My common sense ish telling moi to agree with chiu that in many churches today the Lord's Supper ish a sombre time as if it ish the Lord's funeral. Some people faces look sho sad and serious and some may have constipated look as though the little piece of bread or wafer ish make them have tummy ache.

 

[aceventura27]

Acts 2:46
They worshiped together at the Temple each day, met in homes for the Lord’s Supper, and shared their meals with great joy and generosity

Ish true ish true. My common sense ish telling moi to agree with chiu that in many churches today the Lord's Supper ish a sombre time as if it ish the Lord's funeral. Some people faces look sho sad and serious and some may have constipated look as though the little piece of bread or wafer ish make them have tummy ache.

But this quote below by FSG about Catholic mass communion is taking things to a whole different level.

“John O’Brien: The third great power of the priestly office is the climax of all. It is the power of consecrating. “No act is greater” says St. Thomas, “than the consecration of the body of Christ.” In this essential phase of the sacred ministry, the power of the priest is not surpassed by that of the bishop, the archbishop, the cardinal or the pope. Indeed it is equal to that of Jesus Christ. For in this role the priest speaks with the voice and the authority of God himself .

When the priest announces the tremendous words of consecration, he reaches up into the heavens, brings Christ down from His throne, and places Him upon our altar to be offered up again as the Victim for the sins of man

. It is a power greater than that of saints and angels, greater than that of Seraphim and Cherubim. Indeed it is greater even than the power of the Virgin Mary. While the Blessed Virgin was the human agency by which Christ became incarnate a single time, the priest brings Christ down from heaven, and renders Him present on our altar as the eternal Victim for the sins of man —not once but a thousand times! The priest speaks and lo! Christ, the eternal and omnipotent God, bows his head in humble obedience to the priest’s command. Of what sublime dignity is the office of the Christian priest who is thus privileged to act as the ambassador and the vice-gerent of Christ on earth! He continues the essential ministry of Christ: he teaches the faithful with the authority of Christ, he pardons the penitent sinner with the power of Christ, he offers up again the same sacrifice of adoration and atonement which Christ offered on Calvary. No wonder that the name which spiritual writers are especially fond of applying to the priest is that of alter Christus . For the priest is and should be another Christ. John A. O'Brien, The Faith of Millions: The Credentials of the Catholic Religion, Our Sunday Visitor, 1974, pg. 255-256 (O’Brien, The Faith of Millions, 255-256)”

 

[codemasterguy]

Having said that, this verse appears in both the Catholic and Protestant bible.

Ecclesiastes 9:7
Go, eat your bread with joy,
And drink your wine with a merry heart;
For God has already accepted your works.

How often is it when you attend a catholic mass that eucharist is a sombre affair, when clearly their bibles tell them it is not?

It is to be taken with joy! And be merry! Laugh!

I never felt any sombre mood. Quiet yes, but not sombre. Nobody is crying, for sure, like those in funeral.

It is just a standard procedure, everyone suppose to be quiet, remember the day Lord said it, and remember the meaning of eucharist. Everyone suppose to pray, to be ready to accept Jesus in a form of bread (and wine). You suppose to check/reflect what you did in past one week, before you accept the bread.

We don't make noise, first to concentrate what Jesus said, and second is to pray. It is just being respectful, and Catholic really believes that Jesus really is present during eucharist.

Seriously, we are have been doing busy life, with so many external noises. Now we have the time to be quiet (just one or two hours only) in mass, and do our own reflection, you want people there to be dancing around you and make noises?

Personally i prefer quiet kind of church, and that's why i return to Catholic mass, after attending many christian services. There are lots of occasions, after my own reflection during mass, i could see myself the one creating mistakes, disputes, because of ego, etc.

 

[MoeLanYong]

My common sense ish telling moi that while it ish sound very noble, loving and inclusive to use just one criteria and one lowest common denominator the issue ish whether the Gospel ish have been compromised when a person ish notch really believe in the all-sufficiency of the finished work on the cross and ish believe that he ish also need a co-redemptrix? Ish it really dontch matter that the Bible ish says there ish one mediator ergo Jesus but yet the RC ish saying there ish another co-mediator and co-redeemer? Ish it really moemuntai to add to what Christ ish done on the cross for our salvation?

https://www.gotquestions.org/Mary-redemptrix-mediatrix.html

Then Jesus is unfair. Unfair is a sin. Please accuse Jesus of bias for admitting the thief that hung beside him (on just a belief) whereas others have to fulfill more criterias.

God makes things easy. It is us men that like to complicate things.

My bible tells me John saw a multitude no one can number being saved Rev 7:9.

Some rogue preachers like to make you think heaven has space for only a classroom of 40.

 

[MoeLanYong]

Best thing I read so far, +1 for you

Kum xia

 

[Kuudere]

Kum xia

Yeah the never-ending catholic vs protestant arguments just get pretty tiring to read.

Protestant: Emphasis on Paul Catholic: Emphasis on Peter

Protestant: Faith only Catholic: Faith together with works

Protestant: Sola scripture Catholic: Prima scriptura

I have went to both and neither identify with both. I don't need to score brownie points from God by trying to prove which is right or wrong. I believe faith is exactly as this verse says. And I agree with you wholeheartedly that men over-complicate things. We are all fallen, sinful beings and therefore do not deserve to judge each other except for God.

(Hebrews 11.1) "Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see."

 

[MoeLanYong]

I never felt any sombre mood. Quiet yes, but not sombre. Nobody is crying, for sure, like those in funeral.

It is just a standard procedure, everyone suppose to be quiet, remember the day Lord said it, and remember the meaning of eucharist. Everyone suppose to pray, to be ready to accept Jesus in a form of bread (and wine). You suppose to check/reflect what you did in past one week, before you accept the bread.

We don't make noise, first to concentrate what Jesus said, and second is to pray. It is just being respectful, and Catholic really believes that Jesus really is present during eucharist.

Seriously, we are have been doing busy life, with so many external noises. Now we have the time to be quiet (just one or two hours only) in mass, and do our own reflection, you want people there to be dancing around you and make noises?

Personally i prefer quiet kind of church, and that's why i return to Catholic mass, after attending many christian services. There are lots of occasions, after my own reflection during mass, i could see myself the one creating mistakes, disputes, because of ego, etc.

By this alone, "check/reflect" you may have misinterpreted certain teachings. We are told to remember HIM. Not remember what WE did.

Nvm. Yup, as long as you like the peace and quiet, please carry on. Different parts of the same body cater for different preferences. Enjoy!

 

[ProLogic]

Then Jesus is unfair. Unfair is a sin. Please accuse Jesus of bias for admitting the thief that hung beside him (on just a belief) whereas others have to fulfill more criterias.

God makes things easy. It is us men that like to complicate things.

My bible tells me John saw a multitude no one can number being saved Rev 7:9.

Some rogue preachers like to make you think heaven has space for only a classroom of 40.

My logic ish telling moi that it ish very cui to accused Jesus of sin and being unfair when chiu ish have notch addressed the question of compromising the Gospel with the need for a co-redemptrix.

 

[invigo79]

being free is a self deception, u are govern by your own set of conduct, moral code and beliefs.




Read HWZ Forum Rules!

Sure, but at least I dont feel the need to justify whatever I do or say as being the will of God.

Sent from Home using GAGT

 

[MoeLanYong]

My logic ish telling moi that it ish very cui to accused Jesus of sin and being unfair when chiu ish have notch addressed the question of compromising the Gospel with the need for a co-redemptrix.

Not going there haha

 

[TehOPengSiuDai]

Sorry, this is not really related but i'm curious to know, are Catholics allowed to gamble, see feng shui, buy and place "lucky idol statues" at home or in the office, go to temple...??

I have a few friends who are Catholics and they all attend mass regularly and they practice all these things above. I am quite confused because Christians are not allowed to do any of those things...

Appreciate if anyone can enlighten me..

 

[MoeLanYong]

Sorry, this is not really related but i'm curious to know, are Catholics allowed to gamble, see feng shui, buy and place "lucky idol statues" at home or in the office, go to temple...??

I have a few friends who are Catholics and they all attend mass regularly and they practice all these things above. I am quite confused because Christians are not allowed to do any of those things...

Appreciate if anyone can enlighten me..

The correct version is you are allowed to do anything. You just need to believe Christ is the son of God that paid for your sins. That's all.

Anyone who tells you Christians cannot do this & that or must do this & that is not telling you the correct version.

 

[ProLogic]

The correct version is you are allowed to do anything. You just need to believe Christ is the son of God that paid for your sins. That's all.

Anyone who tells you Christians cannot do this & that or must do this & that is not telling you the correct version.

Matt 23:9
And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.

My logic ish telling moi that all it ish take to refute chiur "correct version" ish just one verse that tells believers what they should notch do and the above "do notch do this" ish come from no other than Jesus Himself. This verse ish telling believers notch to call any man on earth with a religious or spiritual title "Father" which in moi view ish speaking directly to those who address a man with such a religious title as Papa ergo Pope. My common sense ish telling moi to ask if chiu ish calling Jesus' teachings the incorrect version or ish chiurs the cui version?

https://www.gotquestions.org/father-Matthew-23-9.html

 

[fsg316]

There are two types of person asking these kind of questions;because you seem to understand/read some bible passages.
1. the real chatolic who asking questions to understand more
2. just another protestants who wants to argue about chatolic teaching.

You are very likely #2.

If you are #1, read more some readings in Chatecism of the Chatolic Church and many apologist such as Scott Han. There are many apologetics source out there to read.

If you are #2, don't waste every one time. Just like any other debate, you read from your own version of bible, chatolic read from its own bible.

It's the same as debate between islam and christians. One read from bible, the other read from alquran. We will never meet common ground.

Do you want to convert/argue, try converting other religion which is not believer of Jesus, or consolidate your thousands of denomination church who has its own teaching, its own bible and interpretations. Which denomination are you?

Do you believe in Prosperity gospel, the modern church teaching? Seems very popular among protestants.

If you do, please pray and read your bible again, before looking at Catholic to kepo.

If you don't, you are not the same as other protestants. So you want to come out with different teaching if you dont' believe it?

And what's your point of view about LGBT? Some denomination already can bless LGBT marriage. SHM.

What official capacity does Scott Hahn have to speak on behalf of your church and upon whose authority does he or any "apologist" promulgate teaching?

Do you agree with this?

Vatican II: But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Moslems, these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day. Nor is God Himself remote from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, since he gives to all men life and breath and all things (cf. Acts 17:25–28), and since the Saviour wills all men to be saved (cf. 1 Tim. 2:4). Those who, who through no fault of their own, do not know the gospel of Christ or His Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may achieve eternal salvation.Vatican Council II The Conciliar and Post Conciliar Documents, Austin Flannery, O.P., General Editor (Boston: St. Paul Editions, 1980), Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, Lumen Gentium II:16, p. 367.


http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-te...can-council-and-papal-statements-on-islam.cfm

https://www.catholicculture.org/news/features/index.cfm?recnum=10415


At the end of the audience the Pope bowed to the Muslim holy book, the Qu'ran, presented to him by the delegation, and he kissed it as a sign of respect. The photo of that gesture has been shown repeatedly on Iraqi television and it demonstrates that the Pope is not only aware of the suffering of the Iraqi people, he has also great respect for Islam.

Or this?

The Council of Florence (1441) Bull*Cantata Domino:*It firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart “into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels” [Matt. 25:41], unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church. See Henry Denzinger,*Enchiridion Symbolorum, The Sources of Catholic Dogma, trans. Roy J. Deferrari, Thirtieth Ed. (Powers Lake: Marian House, published in 1954 by Herder & Co., Freiburg), #714, p. 230.

So which contradictory Council do you follow? Nothing to see, let's move on.

 

[EDMWer=StrawberryCharSiew]

Best thing I read so far, +1 for you

So nice of you to massage people's ego.

 

[fsg316]

Doesn't matter. There are different parts of the body of christ, performing different functions.

There is only one criteria.

Whosoever believe Jesus is the son of God who paid your sin penalty, he goes heaven. John 3:16. He is part of the body of christ.

Doesn't matter whether he writes Roman Catholic or Christian in his iC.

Jesus did not ask the thief hanging beside him, Are you roman Catholic or Christian, before admitting him into heaven.

Look at this:

Boniface VIII , Unam Sanctam: ………….This authority, however, (though it has been given to man and is exercised by man), is not human but rather divine, granted to Peter by a divine word and reaffirmed to him (Peter) and his successors by the One Whom Peter confessed, the Lord saying to Peter himself, "Whatsoever you shall bind on earth, shall be bound also in Heaven" etc., [Mt 16:19]. Therefore whoever resists this power thus ordained by God, resists the ordinance of God [Rom 13:2], unless he invent like Manicheus two beginnings, which is false and judged by us heretical, since according to the testimony of Moses, it is not in the beginnings but in the beginning that God created heaven and earth [Gen 1:1]. Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff. Pope Boniface VIII , November 18, 1302, Unam Sanctam

Jesus, Peter and Paul would condemn such teachings.

Galatians 1:8*-‬9
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

Matthew 20:25*-‬28
But Jesus called them to him and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles Lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them. It shall not be so among you. But whoever would be great among you must be your servant, and whoever would be first among you must be your slave, even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

Acts 10:25-26
When Peter entered, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I too am a man.”

 

[asymmetric]

Do Roman "Catholic" dogmas contradict the Bible?

being from a catholic sch, i just know they a bit weird and think highly of themselves....not humble.

 

[fsg316]

Yeah the never-ending catholic vs protestant arguments just get pretty tiring to read.

Protestant: Emphasis on Paul Catholic: Emphasis on Peter

Protestant: Faith only Catholic: Faith together with works

Protestant: Sola scripture Catholic: Prima scriptura

I have went to both and neither identify with both. I don't need to score brownie points from God by trying to prove which is right or wrong. I believe faith is exactly as this verse says. And I agree with you wholeheartedly that men over-complicate things. We are all fallen, sinful beings and therefore do not deserve to judge each other except for God.

(Hebrews 11.1) "Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see."

On what basis do you say this?

Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.”
John 7:24 ESV