Why can't China aim to take back Taiwan peacefully and make everyone including USA 心服口服?

[NTB2DO]

As far as the taiwanese people seem to be concerned, they are alike to you, can't be bothered either and instead enjoying their lives.

Notice that all the whine and noise to ask Taiwan to declare the independence blah blah are from the ccpib camp, which seems to be the only one bothered about this point since they need something meagre to hold on to for the pitiful purpose of supporting their hope that they can say "OH Taiwan is not independent phew...."

But for all intents and purposes as per reality, Taiwan doesn't have to be bothered about this. So instead now, we are just here being entertained by the ccpibs who think everyone else should be caring and they push forward these weak arguments about Taiwan, when the reality is completely contradictory to their understanding hehehe

Huh?

I thought we are responding to TS's thread topic :

Why can't China aim to take back Taiwan peacefully and make everyone including USA 心服口服?​

Does it mean that we must adopt a single stance, or risk kena labelled by the other camp if we don't?

 

[Ethan_]

If referendum fail, will China diam diam and admit Taiwan as independent country?

Think if the matter is simply for TW itself to decide alone, its easier. But its not, it involve both places, since both are viewed as one greater China. Thus the referendum probably won't be limited to TW alone but all including CN. And TW probably won't like the result of that also. Thus might as well don't go that way.

 

[YKT^95]

autonomy sovereignty 傻傻分不清楚

So if autonomy means is defined as a country?

 

[NTB2DO]

my understanding is that these investment r reciprocated by similar size chinese investment here. its also relatively in smaller proportion compared to those from the west.

Which is why it doesn't benefit us by alienating ourselves from China.. (Or the west including US).

 

[cal127]

I don't want to agree or disagree with your statement. I just want to point out a few points.

Firstly, a country is not formed just because the people want it so.
Secondly, a country is not formed just because they are self-governing/they have a govt.
Thirdly, a country is not formed just because it set up its own military or currency.

A country can only be formed if it went thru the proper process and is official.
Eg Singapore. Did SG gain independence just because LKY or the people of SG say so? No. We gained independence because M'sia officially rejected us (with this they don't have the official right to take us back anymore, regardless of historical, legal or whatever reasons), and LKY gone thru the proper process and officially declared SG independence.

Those things are exactly what make a country. Why didn't Taiwan go thru the proper process? Because the rules that may lead to Taiwan independence and make it official simply don't exist as China won't allow it with the threat of war. Tsai will hold a referendum on reunification the moment PRC greenlights it and China knows Taiwan will overwhelming vote against reunification so that simply won't happen and its a moot point.

Scotland had a referendum and decided to stay part of the U.K. if they voted to separate they would have separated.

The U.K. had a Brexit vote and decided to leave the EU and for better or worse it did leave the EU without a war and anyone trying to stop it by force.

They have been independent for over 70yrs for all intents and purposes. I’m sure the Taiwanese will be impressed by the view that they must be part of China because red guard yokels in say Hebei have been relentlessly propagandized that Taiwan is part of china though they know little of its history, culture, the arguments for its independence, have never visited Taiwan and never will.

Not to be disrespectful of Taiwan’s right to self determination as expressed in general election after general election and in the most recent one where the DPP won a landslide for greater autonomy for Taiwan.

 

[dannytan87]

So if autonomy means is defined as a country?

of course not...... autonomy is self governing..... autonomous university.....

california also got their own law and governor different from texas, other states........

 

[SquallLH]

TW has been self governing, so yes in all intents and purposes, it is a country. Again a fact. - This is not how a piece of land can be recognised and fit into the definition of a country. So that's your opinion, not a fact. A fact is something that cannot be disputed, just like the independence of SG (which cannot be disputed cos it went thru proper procedures and became officially - not because we are self-governing or because LKY or the citizens of Singapore say so).

But oh well, if you want to insist on your own definition of a country then okay bah

What proper procedure are you talking about, you mean that's an international government that processes a country's registration?
A country is considered a country when officially recognized in black and white by vast majority of the other countries and their government on this globe.
Problem for Taiwan now is because China is making the claim on their territory and will financial embargo any other countries that recognizes Taiwan as a country, else no one will dispute Taiwan is its own country.

 

[luvbitez]

Which is why it doesn't benefit us by alienating ourselves from China.. (Or the west including US).

boh bian its a pain we must take while anti china is taking shape in the world.
we hv to 斷臂求生..

 

[aspenco]

how to take back peacefully when most of the taiwanese do not even want to be part of chai nah?

 

[sacredrays]

so.. how does a civil war end?

can end up one party give up remaining control, or parties breaking up the country right?

 

[dannytan87]

so.. how does a civil war end?

can end up one party give up remaining control, or parties breaking up the country right?

break up country is separatist.....
civil war is war within a single country.....

they are 2 different thing......

civil war end maybe is one governing entity take over the whole country lor....

 

[blong]

TW has been self governing, so yes in all intents and purposes, it is a country. Again a fact. - This is not how a piece of land can be recognised and fit into the definition of a country. So that's your opinion, not a fact. A fact is something that cannot be disputed, just like the independence of SG (which cannot be disputed cos it went thru proper procedures and became officially - not because we are self-governing or because LKY or the citizens of Singapore say so).

But oh well, if you want to insist on your own definition of a country then okay bah

Definition -
1. a nation with its own government, occupying a particular territory.

What proper procedures and how to become official? Official by who?
If we are self governing aka with our own government, we are a country.
TW cannot go declare independence because if it did, China will mostly invade.

 

[dannytan87]

Definition -
1. a nation with its own government, occupying a particular territory.

What proper procedures and how to become official? Official by who?
If we are self governing aka with our own government, we are a country.
TW cannot go declare independence because if it did, China will mostly invade.

donetsk declare independence already ma..... just to mention tsai havent...... TW separatist must expect the cost of independence lor.........

 

[blong]

donetsk declare independence already ma..... just to mention tsai havent...... TW separatist must expect the cost of independence lor.........

Did they follow the 'procedure' and is it 'official' as indicated by someone in the forum?

 

[cal127]

so.. how does a civil war end?

can end up one party give up remaining control, or parties breaking up the country right?

How about this: China gets rid of its autocratic (failed Communist) system and rejoins Taiwan (ROC). No need for a war or invasion then. Better yet: let’s have an open and honest referendum in China itself about who they would rather be ruled by and what system they would rather have.

 

[YKT^95]

Those things are exactly what make a country. Why didn't Taiwan go thru the proper process? Because the rules that may lead to Taiwan independence and make it official simply don't exist as China won't allow it with the threat of war. Tsai will hold a referendum on reunification the moment PRC greenlights it and China knows Taiwan will overwhelming vote against reunification so that simply won't happen and its a moot point.

Scotland had a referendum and decided to stay part of the U.K. if they voted to separate they would have separated.

The U.K. had a Brexit vote and decided to leave the EU and for better or worse it did leave the EU without a war and anyone trying to stop it by force.

They have been independent for over 70yrs for all intents and purposes. I’m sure the Taiwanese will be impressed by the view that they must be part of China because red guard yokels in say Hebei have been relentlessly propagandized that Taiwan is part of china though they know little of its history, culture, the arguments for its independence, have never visited Taiwan and never will.

Not to be disrespectful of Taiwan’s right to self determination as expressed in general election after general election and in the most recent one where the DPP won a landslide for greater autonomy for Taiwan.

Yes for this reason I would agree. But Scotland UK etc are able to do so because they are all democratic countries and they respect the essence of democracy in which all parties are agreeable to allow that someone to leave or thru voting etc. However if we try to use the same democratic lens to view China Taiwan, then the whole issue will never be solved. Assuming we don't bring in other political reasoning (such as US vs China, democracy vs communism etc), insisting that Taiwan is an independent country using our own democratic lens will only stroke more tensions. If it can be solved so easily, it wont be until now already.

 

[tyhand39]

how you make a 土匪，黑社会 behave like a normal human being ????

 

[blong]

break up country is separatist.....
civil war is war within a single country.....

they are 2 different thing......

civil war end maybe is one governing entity take over the whole country lor....

There are civil wars that lead up two countries.

 

[NTB2DO]

boh bian its a pain we must take while anti china is taking shape in the world.
we hv to 斷臂求生..

To use an analogy. Let's say you have a property for sale. 2 buyers offered. The first buyer is rude and guai lang and you dislike him a lot. The second buyer is nice and considerate and you like him. First buyer offers $2m, second buyer offers $1.8m. Would you choose to sell your property to 2nd buyer just because you dislike the first buyer?

Anyway in the above example, property is yours so it's really up to you. But our govt has to put our country's interest (the economy) before their personal preference (assuming they too, like you, dislike China).

 

[dannytan87]

Yes for this reason I would agree. But Scotland UK etc are able to do so because they are all democratic countries and they respect the essence of democracy in which all parties are agreeable to allow that someone to leave or thru voting etc. However if we try to use the same democratic lens to view China Taiwan, then the whole issue will never be solved. Assuming we don't bring in other political reasoning (such as US vs China, democracy vs communism etc), insisting that Taiwan is an independent country using our own democratic lens will only stroke more tensions. If it can be solved so easily, it wont be until now already.

scotland independence referendum need to go through british government...... there is a process.....