Singapore Treasury bills (T-bills)

[reddevil0728]

1-yr TBill
Issue date: 31 Jan 2023
Maturity date: 30 Jan 2024

So 31 Jan funds credited to cpfis
Manually transfer via IB/ATM to CPF OA on 31 Jan
1 Feb funds credited to CPF OA

Transacted date will be 31 Jan or 1 Feb? Thanks!

You will likely lose 14 months instead of 13 months of interest

 

[Squaredot]

You will likely lose 14 months instead of 13 months of interest

how to calculate the BE yield for coming 1YR tbill?

 

[BernardWYF]

any suggestion what is the better bid for the coming 18 Jan T-bills?

 

[dreamwork7878]

Bid higher to help the poor
Higher yield to finance your medical bills.

> 5%

 

[reddevil0728]

any suggestion what is the better bid for the coming 18 Jan T-bills?

Higher than the COY so that wouldn’t be termed as low baller

 

[reddevil0728]

how to calculate the BE yield for coming 1YR tbill?

Same way you will for 6m

 

[Squaredot]

Same way you will for 6m

never calculate before

 

[henrylbh]

1-yr TBill
Issue date: 31 Jan 2023
Maturity date: 30 Jan 2024

So 31 Jan funds credited to cpfis
Manually transfer via IB/ATM to CPF OA on 31 Jan
1 Feb funds credited to CPF OA

Transacted date will be 31 Jan or 1 Feb? Thanks!

Very likely Feb's interest down the drain. Best is to avoid such risk as movements of fund involve MAS, CPFIA, yourself and CPF.

 

[henrylbh]

how to calculate the BE yield for coming 1YR tbill?

BE depends on 13 or 14 months of OA interest forgone.

 

[reddevil0728]

never calculate before

2.5% X (number of months interest loss) / (number of months of t-bill)

Very likely Feb's interest down the drain. Best is to avoid such risk as movements of fund involve MAS, CPFIA, yourself and CPF.

Technically just have to add a premium you are willing to accept to the higher breakeven

 

[konan~]

Higher than the COY so that wouldn’t be termed as low baller

Then bid like no bid

 

[reddevil0728]

Then bid like no bid

Based on the logic of those calling out low ballers

 

[xy2010xy]

My experience is that CPF OA money will be deducted one day after auction date which is before issue date, so Jan 2023 interest will be forfeited since interest is not earned in the month of withdrawal.

Maturity date for DBS usually will be credited back to CPFIA within 1 business day after maturity date. If you transfer back to CPF OA before/on 31 Jan, will start earning CPF interest again in Feb 2024. If you forget to transfer back, will stay in CPFIA not earning interest for 2 months of inactivity before it gets transferred back to OA.

for Tbill purchased by cash, it will return back to bank account automatically after maturity? cash returning to bank account is on maturity date or next day? Thanks a lot.

 

[vsvs24]

for Tbill purchased by cash, it will return back to bank account automatically after maturity? cash returning to bank account is on maturity date or next day? Thanks a lot.

Same day after 5pm (DBS) to the bank account linked to your CDP

 

[dork32]

Based on the logic of those calling out low ballers

take the case of total tbill amount = 5000
A bid 0% 1k
B bid 1% 1k
C bid 2% 1k
D bid 3% 1k
E bid 4% 1k
f bid 5% 1k
G bid 6% 1k
COY = 4%

1. D scold A : you stupid lowballer. if you bid higher we could get a higher COY.
True? If A bid 4%, COY is still 4%

2. is A a lowball guy? yes he is. if he did not bid, the COY would have risen to 5%. his bid helped to bring the COY to 4%

3. is E a lowball guy, yes he is, if he did not bid, the COY would have risen to 5%. his bid helped to bring the COY down to 4%.

Is it wrong to say that everyone that is allocated are lowballers based on the above example?

 

[BernardWYF]

take the case of total tbill amount = 5000
A bid 0% 1k
B bid 1% 1k
C bid 2% 1k
D bid 3% 1k
E bid 4% 1k
f bid 5% 1k
G bid 6% 1k
COY = 4%

1. D scold A : you stupid lowballer. if you bid higher we could get a higher COY.
True? If A bid 4%, COY is still 4%

2. is A a lowball guy? yes he is. if he did not bid, the COY would have risen to 5%. his bid helped to bring the COY to 4%

3. is E a lowball guy, yes he is, if he did not bid, the COY would have risen to 5%. his bid helped to bring the COY down to 4%.

Is it wrong to say that everyone that is allocated are lowballers based on the above example?

if the COY is 4%, bidders A, B, C, D will benefit from their tactic since if they get full allocation, they are actually collecting 4% and not their 0-3% ... that's why low-balling bidders will benefit ... right?

 

[milkfish]

Yeah. Scolding low ballers is basically saying "I should get, you should not get". So I think it's kinda dumb.

Unless you can collude with significant portion of bidders, low ball or high ball makes no difference. It boils down to who get vs who don't get. Don't blame people who bid smarter than you can?

 

[surefire888]

take the case of total tbill amount = 5000
A bid 0% 1k
B bid 1% 1k
C bid 2% 1k
D bid 3% 1k
E bid 4% 1k
f bid 5% 1k
G bid 6% 1k
COY = 4%

1. D scold A : you stupid lowballer. if you bid higher we could get a higher COY.
True? If A bid 4%, COY is still 4%

2. is A a lowball guy? yes he is. if he did not bid, the COY would have risen to 5%. his bid helped to bring the COY to 4%

3. is E a lowball guy, yes he is, if he did not bid, the COY would have risen to 5%. his bid helped to bring the COY down to 4%.

Is it wrong to say that everyone that is allocated are lowballers based on the above example?

"Lowballer" is not a complimentary term so i wouldn't suggest calling everyone who is successful a lowballer. It is true that everyone successful has a part in fixing the COY but this does not make him a lowballer. More important is the intention and frame of mind of the bidder. If say, by freak chance the COY is 10%, it would not be correct to call someone who bid 9.9% a lowballer. And what if the issue was not fully subscribed and there were no bids above 10%?

Rather, i would say the real lowballers are those who bid at a level that they themselves would not be happy to accept. For eg, a person using cash may be happy only if he gets 4% but he still bids 0.5%. Or a person using CPF may be happy only if he gets 2.9% but he bids 0.1%

If everyone bids at the minimum level that they honestly are happy to be successful at taking into account alternative investment options and personal preferences, you wont have any complaints when COY suddenly drops to say 2%. Right now, these real lowballers are exposing themselves to exactly this risk

 

[dork32]

"Lowballer" is not a complimentary term so i wouldn't suggest calling everyone who is successful a lowballer. It is true that everyone successful has a part in fixing the COY but this does not make him a lowballer. More important is the intention and frame of mind of the bidder. If say, by freak chance the COY is 10%, it would not be correct to call someone who bid 9.9% a lowballer. And what if the issue was not fully subscribed and there were no bids above 10%?

glad you understand that everyone that is allocated has done their part in preventing the coy on going higher.

on your freak example of coy at 10%. the effect of a guy 9.9% is the same as the effect of a guy that bid 1% on the coy. so if a 9.9% guy is not lowballing, then the 1% guy is not lowballing. so stop calling the guy that bid 1% a low ball guy

 

[dork32]

Rather, i would say the real lowballers are those who bid at a level that they themselves would not be happy to accept. For eg, a person using cash may be happy only if he gets 4% but he still bids 0.5%. Or a person using CPF may be happy only if he gets 2.9% but he bids 0.1%

this is not just lowball, this is stupid. this guy that you are talking about is just a stupid lowballer.

if he bid 4%, he is just a lowballer, not stupid