The Buddha and his Teachings, according to Suttas in the Pali Canon

[mrBooBoo]

coz buddha live 2,000 years ago. The epistemology makes sense during Buddha (vedic) era. Although pass on 2,000 years later many things may have lost in translation, that's why to the modern people it may sound goofy at times.

 

[BennyQ]

coz buddha live 2,000 years ago. The epistemology makes sense during Buddha (vedic) era. Although pass on 2,000 years later many things may have lost in translation, that's why to the modern people it may sound goofy at times.

Well said bro. Means if buddha was around at this time, he would not use the words Buddhists are repeating now. He might even be a modern best selling philosophy or self improvement author that people won't quote and repeat.

 

[bigrooster]

Thanks for sharing.

Yes, every component fits nicely within the framework.

Do you think your next drawing could be the flowchart that links all of these together in the context of causality and kamma?

Maybe I will do something like that after releasing the standard Dependent Origination 12-component chart ...

 

[ouroboroso]

Means if buddha was around at this time, he would not use the words Buddhists are repeating now. He might even be a modern best selling philosophy or self improvement author that people won't quote and repeat.

Even during his time, Buddha would tailor what he was communicating to the profiles of the recipients.

He was careful about the context of his transmission and optimised the content for the majority of the audience.

That's one of the reasons why sometimes certain concepts may seem at odds with others across suttas (apart from translation and interpretation causes).

There were different granularities of explanations and analogies that he used.

 

[mrBooBoo]

Well said bro. Means if buddha was around at this time, he would not use the words Buddhists are repeating now. He might even be a modern best selling philosophy or self improvement author that people won't quote and repeat.

I mean history is never so direct bah. I won't wanna hypothesize too much, and that is the job of buddhist academic scholar which does many translation and historian work. I just take what I can comprehend and experience, and maintain a "don't know" (zen reference) mind to ideas that I still can't grasp.

Here is a book I highly recommended. The author himself is atheist but is deeply trained in tibetan buddhism. Very interesting read for sceptic.

​

Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality Without Religion​

https://www.amazon.com/Waking-Up-Spirituality-Without-Religion/dp/1451636024

 

[BennyQ]

I mean history is never so direct bah. I won't wanna hypothesize too much, and that is the job of buddhist academic scholar which does many translation and historian work. I just take what I can comprehend and experience, and maintain a "don't know" (zen reference) mind to ideas that I still can't grasp.

Here is a book I highly recommended. The author himself is atheist but is deeply trained in tibetan buddhism. Very interesting read for sceptic.

​

Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality Without Religion​

https://www.amazon.com/Waking-Up-Spirituality-Without-Religion/dp/1451636024

Ah yes Sam Harris I watched lot of his youtube videos liao. I lazy to read. Anyway I feel very much at peace with my understanding of the world now. Granted it is an advantage that mainly comes from not having to work. But I'll cross whatever bridge I have to if and when I ever get there.

 

[Ironside]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahasi_Sayadaw

 

[TerryPower]

Above is morning chanting. Below is evening.

 

[Ironside]

Even during his time, Buddha would tailor what he was communicating to the profiles of the recipients.

He was careful about the context of his transmission and optimised the content for the majority of the audience.

That's one of the reasons why sometimes certain concepts may seem at odds with others across suttas (apart from translation and interpretation causes).

There were different granularities of explanations and analogies that he used.

Well said bro. Means if buddha was around at this time, he would not use the words Buddhists are repeating now. He might even be a modern best selling philosophy or self improvement author that people won't quote and repeat.

There are a lot of new age gurus now and in the last half century. Their methods may seem very glamorous and cool, but they usually fail in one or two areas: morality and right view. This has never changed since the time of the Buddha till present.

In certain suttas, there are individuals or group of monks where they simply became enlightened after the Buddha briefly spoke to them because they are have certain prerequisites.

 

[ouroboroso]

There are a lot of new age gurus now and in the last half century. Their methods may seem very glamorous and cool, but they usually fail in one or two areas: morality and right view. This has never changed since the time of the Buddha till present.

In certain suttas, there are individuals or group of monks where they simply became enlightened after the Buddha briefly spoke to them because they are have certain prerequisites.

Thanks for sharing.

I believe much of this is due to the motivation that underpins their endeavours. Be it to build a revenue generator, develop a brand, or even foster a form of new-age spiritual following (or cult), these are all rooted in the glorification or extension of the ego.

It's necessary to note though that to an observer, an individual may achieve enlightenment. But from the perspective of the enlightened, there is no individual that has attained enlightenment.

 

[BennyQ]

There are a lot of new age gurus now and in the last half century. Their methods may seem very glamorous and cool, but they usually fail in one or two areas: morality and right view. This has never changed since the time of the Buddha till present.

In certain suttas, there are individuals or group of monks where they simply became enlightened after the Buddha briefly spoke to them because they are have certain prerequisites.

I dunno. That sounds abit like u believe in magic. I also don't believe in morality leh. It's depending on system and conditions leh.

Believing in morality always leads to violence and judgement and comparison, which is clearly subjective.

Most of the time when people talk about morality, they assume we cannot change the conditions or the system. And yet the system has changed over time and will be able to change even more.

One day the system we live in will make it impossible to kill another person or steal or hurt another person because of technology.

 

[ouroboroso]

I also don't believe in morality leh. It's depending on system and conditions leh. Believing in morality always leads to violence and judgement and comparison, which is clearly subjective.

Morality is often subjective. What's considered moral to one person may be immoral to another of a different background or culture.

Wherever and whenever there's subjectivity, there will be disagreements and, thus inevitably, conflict and violence.

A thousand people have a thousand different definitions of morality though most of them think that they share the same exact code.

 

[Zorroh]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahasi_Sayadaw

Wow thanks! I have only seen his pictures and never saw his video before!

 

[Ironside]

Wow thanks! I have only seen his pictures and never saw his video before!

Did you see he like to "rock" front and back when he was sitting?

 

[Ironside]

Thanks for sharing.

I believe much of this is due to the motivation that underpins their endeavours. Be it to build a revenue generator, develop a brand, or even foster a form of new-age spiritual following (or cult), these are all rooted in the glorification or extension of the ego.

It's necessary to note though that to an observer, an individual may achieve enlightenment. But from the perspective of the enlightened, there is no individual that has attained enlightenment.

I dunno. That sounds abit like u believe in magic. I also don't believe in morality leh. It's depending on system and conditions leh.

Believing in morality always leads to violence and judgement and comparison, which is clearly subjective.

Most of the time when people talk about morality, they assume we cannot change the conditions or the system. And yet the system has changed over time and will be able to change even more.

One day the system we live in will make it impossible to kill another person or steal or hurt another person because of technology.

The definitions are of course limited to what was taught by the Buddha. Sure, everyone will have their own definitions of things. That is why you are free to believe in what you choose to.

 

[BennyQ]

The definitions are of course limited to what was taught by the Buddha. Sure, everyone will have their own definitions of things. That is why you are free to believe in what you choose to.

Have u tested your beliefs in different conditions, culture and era? Try to imagine a future world where everyone lives in virtual reality getting whatever they want for free or at no cost to others? Its like testing science vs bomoh. VR is best test for realising what comes from within u and what comes from the world outside of u.

 

[bigrooster]

Have u tested your beliefs in different conditions, culture and era? Try to imagine a future world where everyone lives in virtual reality getting whatever they want for free or at no cost to others? Its like testing science vs bomoh. VR is best test for realising what comes from within u and what comes from the world outside of u.

Whether the conditions, culture or era are different or not, sentient beings face the same problems of unsatisfactoriness or suffering, manifested via birth, old age, sickness, death, getting unpleasant scenarios and experiences against one's wish. Whether your stated "tests" was done or not, these things still carry on uninterrupted. If the Buddha pointed a way for one to transcend these unsatisfactoriness or suffering, which already worked for many, do you want to give it a try, or you want to remain skeptical and ask about the "tests" instead? Of course, it's your personal choice, you can treat all these as BS (as you said yesterday) and leave it as that.

Also, on the "subjectivity" of morality, though there are some grey areas that depends on socialisation, contexts, etc, but if a certain kind of actions hurt others intentionally, then that is immoral.

Reminds me of this discourse with the parable of the poison arrow that I have to post here.

Excerpt:
“If anyone should say thus: ‘I will not lead the holy life under the Blessed One until the Blessed One declares to me “the world is eternal”…or “after death a Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist,”’ that would still remain undeclared by the Tathāgata and meanwhile that person would die. Suppose, Mālunkyāputta, a man were wounded by an arrow thickly smeared with poison, and his friends and companions, his kinsmen and relatives, brought a surgeon to treat him. The man would say: ‘I will not let the surgeon pull out this arrow until I know whether the man who wounded me was a noble or a brahmin or a merchant or a worker.’ And he would say: ‘I will not let the surgeon pull out this arrow until I know the name and clan of the man who wounded me;…until I know whether the man who wounded me was tall or short or of middle height;… …until I know what kind of arrowhead it was that wounded me—whether spiked or razor-tipped or curved or barbed or calf-toothed or lancet-shaped.’ “All this would still not be known to that man and meanwhile he would die."

Online reference: MN 63 - Cūḷamālukya Sutta, Bhikkhu Bodhi translation

 

[ouroboroso]

Also, on the "subjectivity" of morality, though there are some grey areas that depends on socialisation, contexts, etc, but if a certain kind of actions hurt others intentionally, then that is immoral.

Thanks for sharing.

There are many grey areas when we expand our gaze to other parts of the world and across creed and culture.

If you have time, please do a quick read of this article on New Guinea tribespeople known as the Korowai:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/sleeping-with-cannibals-128958913/

They practise cannibalism, and in their culture, that is moral and acceptable behaviour.

That is of course an extreme example but it is just to highlight the fact that morality is more of a continuum of subjective boundaries than a clear-cut universal standard.

 

[BennyQ]

Whether the conditions, culture or era are different or not, sentient beings face the same problems of unsatisfactoriness or suffering, manifested via birth, old age, sickness, death, getting unpleasant scenarios and experiences against one's wish. Whether your stated "tests" was done or not, these things still carry on uninterrupted. If the Buddha pointed a way for one to transcend these unsatisfactoriness or suffering, which already worked for many, do you want to give it a try, or you want to remain skeptical and ask about the "tests" instead? Of course, it's your personal choice, you can treat all these as BS (as you said yesterday) and leave it as that.

Also, on the "subjectivity" of morality, though there are some grey areas that depends on socialisation, contexts, etc, but if a certain kind of actions hurt others intentionally, then that is immoral.

Reminds me of this discourse with the parable of the poison arrow that I have to post here.

Excerpt:
“If anyone should say thus: ‘I will not lead the holy life under the Blessed One until the Blessed One declares to me “the world is eternal”…or “after death a Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist,”’ that would still remain undeclared by the Tathāgata and meanwhile that person would die. Suppose, Mālunkyāputta, a man were wounded by an arrow thickly smeared with poison, and his friends and companions, his kinsmen and relatives, brought a surgeon to treat him. The man would say: ‘I will not let the surgeon pull out this arrow until I know whether the man who wounded me was a noble or a brahmin or a merchant or a worker.’ And he would say: ‘I will not let the surgeon pull out this arrow until I know the name and clan of the man who wounded me;…until I know whether the man who wounded me was tall or short or of middle height;… …until I know what kind of arrowhead it was that wounded me—whether spiked or razor-tipped or curved or barbed or calf-toothed or lancet-shaped.’ “All this would still not be known to that man and meanwhile he would die."

Online reference: MN 63 - Cūḷamālukya Sutta, Bhikkhu Bodhi translation

Maybe I was a little harsh. But maybe also u dunno me. I have always said the suffering is hardwired in us and so we cannot trust our feelings and judgements about the world around us. I didn't need to read budhha and the noble truths or whatever to get it.

Now, my attitude to reading and religion is that it is still better to learn from experience than from religion or reading.

So many people only know how to repeat quotes but based on their opinions I know they didn't learn the really important part which is that u can't trust your feelings or instincts. It feels more like they are not learning for utility but for mere competition. So I think reading actually made real learning even harder for these people.

 

[Elnoxv]

Morality is often subjective. What's considered moral to one person may be immoral to another of a different background or culture.

Wherever and whenever there's subjectivity, there will be disagreements and, thus inevitably, conflict and violence.

A thousand people have a thousand different definitions of morality though most of them think that they share the same exact code.

What you mentioned is spot on. Definition of Morality is indeed varies across cultures and environments.

However, in Buddhism, morality takes a unique stance. It's not about fitting norms or creating order or for self-benefit. Instead, it's rooted in cause and effect. When the Buddha attained supernormal insight, he perceived the consequences of actions clearly. He discerned that certain deeds lead to adverse outcomes, while abstaining from them cultivates lasting happiness both now and in the future.

To guide laypeople, he advocated the adoption of five precepts as fundamental moral guidelines. For those aspiring to higher spiritual goals, additional precepts are recommended.

Embracing virtues and adhering to precepts, which encompass the practice of morality, is ultimately for our own benefit. However, certain moral guidelines, like the endorsement of cannibalism in certain tribe (especially if it entails killing), don't align with Buddhism's moral framework. This misalignment stems from the understanding that killing generates negative karmic consequences, potentially leading to harm for both the perpetrators and others involved.

The Shorter Analysis of Deeds​

A small compiled list to paint the cause and effect:

1. Longevity and Short Lives:
   • Cause of Short Lives: Killing and violence towards living beings.
   • Effect: Rebirth in lower states or short human life.
   • Cause of Long Lives: Abstaining from killing and showing compassion.
   • Effect: Rebirth in higher realms or long human life.
2. Sickness and Health:
   • Cause of Sickness: Harming beings.
   • Effect: Rebirth in lower states or prone to disease.
   • Cause of Health: Non-harming.
   • Effect: Rebirth in higher realms or good health.
3. Appearance (Ugly and Beautiful):
   • Cause of Ugliness: Anger and ill-temper.
   • Effect: Rebirth in lower states or ugly appearance.
   • Cause of Beauty: Absence of anger and ill-temper.
   • Effect: Rebirth in higher realms or beautiful appearance.
4. Influence and Insignificance:
   • Cause of Insignificance: Envy and resentment.
   • Effect: Rebirth in lower states or insignificance.
   • Cause of Influence: Absence of envy.
   • Effect: Rebirth in higher realms or influence.
5. Wealth and Poverty:
   • Cause of Poverty: Lack of generosity.
   • Effect: Rebirth in lower states or poverty.
   • Cause of Wealth: Generosity.
   • Effect: Rebirth in higher realms or wealth.
6. Social Status (High and Low Born):
   • Cause of Low Birth: Arrogance and disrespect.
   • Effect: Rebirth in lower states or low birth.
   • Cause of High Birth: Humility and respect.
   • Effect: Rebirth in higher realms or high birth.
7. Intelligence (Stupidity and Wisdom):
   • Cause of Stupidity: Neglecting to seek wisdom.
   • Effect: Rebirth in lower states or stupidity.
   • Cause of Wisdom: Seeking knowledge and guidance.
   • Effect: Rebirth in higher realms or wisdom.