AMD Zen 5 Discussion Thread ( 5% IPC improvement )

Phen8210

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sala.. play all platforms (Intel, AMD, MacOS and snap dragon) .. FTW, good or bad.. does not matter can always switch, no headache which to choose. :censored:
No, I gonna apply job to AMD, make new cpu just change the print number +2000 can already, easy job and can hold head up high.

7000+2000, if you can solve this you are amd certified engineer
 

kimsix

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intel ftw, all go buy intel
image.png

9700X so loW. 2nd last wor.

Amd changed the temp sensors location in zen5, so is not apples to apples :o
 

xiaofan

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Why only HWZ say it's good.

only positive is wattage and heat

1. Thermal performance improvement can be important for some use cases, example, high performance small factor desktops.

2. Actually I watched a few videos from Chinese reviewers and they are in general positive about the two new Zen 5 desktop processors. Then again they also mention that they are eagerly awaiting for the next two higher end ones.

One example: Geekwan review (of course gaming can not compare with 7800x3d)


3. LTT review is also positive


4. The other thing is that the perspective from different reviewers may be different. HWZ compares using the launch price. The following reviewer uses the current price -- the older processors may be better. In this case, the reviewer is quite disappointed about the new mid-tier AMD Zen 5 based Ryzen 9600X/9700X.
 

iceblendedchoc

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1. Thermal performance improvement can be important for some use cases, example, high performance small factor desktops.

2. Actually I watched a few videos from Chinese reviewers and they are in general positive about the two new Zen 5 desktop processors. Then again they also mention that they are eagerly awaiting for the next two higher end ones.

One example: Geekwan review (of course gaming can not compare with 7800x3d)


3. LTT review is also positive


4. The other thing is that the perspective from different reviewers may be different. HWZ compares using the launch price. The following reviewer uses the current price -- the older processors may be better. In this case, the reviewer is quite disappointed about the new mid-tier AMD Zen 5 based Ryzen 9600X/9700X.

if compared against 7600x and 7700x then not much performance jump in gaming.

But for content creation, yes there is improvement but whether worth the price for upgrading or buying a new 9600x/9700x, then not really.
 

xiaofan

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if compared against 7600x and 7700x then not much performance jump in gaming.
But for content creation, yes there is improvement but whether worth the price for upgrading or buying a new 9600x/9700x, then not really.

Basically those jump on the latest generation chips will usually need to pay more. After a while the price will go down and the chip may become quite worth then.

But it could be next year it will be more interesting with the next evolution of the Zen 5 architecture, probably with AI enhancement for the desktop version CPU as well (now only the mobile AI 300 has the AI enhancement).

I guess the people in this thread are mostly gamers so they are more likely to be disappointed.
 

ragnarok95

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To be honest, i don't know why people want to upgrade from 7000 to 9000. If you already have a 7600/7700 then no point for you to change. The only changes you should go for is either 7800X3D or 9800X3D.

But coming from me who is using a 11 gen intel, then going for 9700X makes more sense.
 

Ferolare

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For me it's more of a platform update: Want to play around with WiFi7/MLO and BTH/LC3 but uh...yeah.

O/S and Motherboard are both a 404 at this point in time.
 

xiaofan

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For me it's more of a platform update: Want to play around with WiFi7/MLO and BTH/LC3 but uh...yeah.

O/S and Motherboard are both a 404 at this point in time.

1) The upcoming Windows 11 24H2 release is supposed to have support for WiFi 7 with MLO. But you also need a good WiFi 7 router which is still not cheap now, especially those 10G capable ones (cheapest is probably TP-Link Archer BE805 dumped by MR users).

Motherboard on the AMD side -- new boards should have WiFi 7 support.

But for older motherboard, you can also use WiFi 7 add-on card based on Qualcomm QCNCM865 WiFi 7 chipset (MTK MT7927 based card is still rare and expensive). It should be a bit better than Intel BE200 (only for Intel platform as of now).

2) Bluetooth LE Audio and LC3 codec should have already been supported by Windows 11. Not so sure about the device side since I am still using 3.5mm jack headphones like the old Sony MDR-100A if I need to listend to Music, or old Creative bluetooth speakers.
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/bluetooth/bluetooth-low-energy-audio
 

kimsix

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Zen5 like suffer same problem like apple, tsmc 4nm has under achieved. Why amd lock down to 65w at default. When see enabling full pbo, zen5 efficiency goes out of window!

So Pat is right on another prediction, intel can catch up tsmc!

To be honest, i don't know why people want to upgrade from 7000 to 9000. If you already have a 7600/7700 then no point for you to change. The only changes you should go for is either 7800X3D or 9800X3D.

But coming from me who is using a 11 gen intel, then going for 9700X makes more sense.

Tiagong simlim will have tonight! Please give fr
 

Phen8210

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Looks like i'll stick to the 7900. Now to wait for price drop lol

In the context of content creation. I also don't think getting a 9000 series is worth it for content creation over 7000 series. I don't know why the videos say that it will help.

When we look at benchmarks, we should decide for ourselves how meaningful those CPU benchmarks for content creation are. I will take this in the context of video editing with Premier Pro 24.5.



1. Export Settings​

I made this comparison with the latest version of Adobe Premier Pro 24.5 and the settings below. On the left, the export setting is to export with CPU, and on the right, with GPU. This is shown in Figure 1.
Y1qitOD.png

Figure 1 - Illustration of Software/Hardware Encoding on Premier Pro 24.5


2. File Size Comparison

ZPsKgCM.png

Figure 2 - File Size Comparison of Hardware vs Software Export.

Figure 2 shows
1. CPU-exported (software) video clip takes way longer than GPU-exported (hardware).
2. CPU-exported video clips have a much larger file size.

Points 1 and 2 determine that CPU export should never be used unless there is an absolute reason to do so. GPU export is the preferred way to go, and the CPU does not play a significant part during GPU export.



3. Benefits of CPU in Editing​

https://www.pugetsystems.com/soluti.../adobe-premiere-pro/hardware-recommendations/
F7YklcV.png

Figure 3 - Benefits of CPU in Video Editing

Figure 3 by Pugetsystems describes how a CPU with more cores helps with export times. However, Section 2 of Figure 2 shows that there's already no reason to use CPU export, as it is majorly disadvantageous in terms of both export times and file size. So even if the CPU does help with export time, it is only significant when performing CPU export, which isn't going to be preferred.

PugetSystems further states that having a CPU with more cores is not that impactful when it comes to dealing with live playback, which is true, as live playback is a real-time processing task.

That's something to think about when looking at such benchmarks. Is it relevant?



4. Buying CPU for Editing​


There are some things to consider when it comes to getting a better CPU for editing.
1) Your CPU absolutely sucks, and it's a very old gen CPU (this will affect daily tasks that are outside of editing too).
2) You don't have hardware acceleration support (both software and hardware need to have support).
3) You know you have a specific workload that is completely unsupported by hardware acceleration. Refer to Figure 4.
4) Not operating in a codec supporting GPU acceleration. Refer to Figure 5.
5) Unlimited funds, can buy just about anything anything.

https://helpx.adobe.com/sg/premiere-pro/using/effects.html#gpu_accelerated_effects
iYYSYHT.png

Figure 4 - List of Accelerated Effects in Premier Pro (Last updated on 12 Apr 2023)

https://helpx.adobe.com/sg/x-productkb/multi/gpu-acceleration-and-hardware-encoding.html
pzKDXwa.png

Figure 5 - Hardware Acceleration Decoding/Encoding Support in Premier Pro



4. Conclusion

Key Takeaways
1) GPU acceleration significantly reduces export times and file size, so there is no reason to use CPU export unless one absolutely has to.
2) GPU acceleration completely eliminates issues during live playback and editing, which is necessary for a smooth workflow. To further improve this, you will need a CPU with better per-core performance, not more cores (see point 3).
3) That's assuming you already have a healthy number of cores (at least 8 full cores, e cores don't count). CPU upgrades will only matter if there is a further improvement in its per-core performance, as also mentioned in Figure 3.
4) This is all in the assumption that you are not heavily multi-tasking while performing video editing, and of 4k60 videos that are of high bitrate.

With all these presented facts, it's very unlikely that getting a 9000 CPU will be better over a 7000 series one unless the condition falls within Section 4, which really means trying to makie hell a lesser hell due to the environment not being properly set up (the real problem).
 
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