jogging and motivation thread

[GlassDoor]

By right a snug fit should better to prevent movement of the feet. So a little tightness is helpful in theory to prevent the feet moving inside the shoes as opposed to a loose fit. But lately all these super shoes, in pursue of breathability and lightness, their upper have very weak structures. Even with nice wrap around feet, the structure collapse easily to give way to feet movement. Just look at those athleisure shoes , they are the opposite, lack breathability, heavy weighted upper, but structure wise is strong and firm once you able to lock it down to your feet. All compromise here and there. Ultimately resign to fate and live with the problem.

I use runner's knot by default after my last black toe nail. It really holds down the foot to be back of the shoe. Side effect is that some shoes will rub achilles badly and have to resort to leukoplast. No sure win solution

 

[Kuudere]

9 mins for temperate vs tropical in reality is insane actually, or 1 min per 4.6km. That means even for 5k it bare minimum can shave us 30 seconds diff over here liao.

Yah good scaling, probably train at that distance majority of the time. 2:50 for FM is 4:02 pace, but then the converse is also true ba, if 5k can only manage something like 19:30 but you are a comfortably sub-3 runner, then........the muscle fibres be like. But of coz, i guess for middle aged folks that could still be a possibility due to age......im seeing on letsrun forums that there are 19:xx sub 3 middle aged runners.
On reddit or similar forums, there are even some 16:xx folks ( not talking about 16:59 lol) who cant go sub-3 even . Of coz youngsters collegiate / cross country type runners who are running that distance more for fun and without specific long distance aerobic training ....also unknown factors like cramps / bone or simi pain / fuelling. You dont train for it of coz bo huat.....same goes for ultra distances like Mont Blanc 175km and humongous elevation gain.

I remember last time we were wondering what 2.4 / 5k timing that sprinters like Shanti can run. heh.......

edit - i gai siao you if you love racing and dont mind a bit of danger (controlled danger), come over to cycling and do duathlons. I think you'd love multi displine sports. Last weekend i came across Quantum racing team @ Sentosa. Not say racing per se, but really the pace is no joke and it's very dynamic in nature, not just racing on PCN kinda condtions. Quite addictive with the adrenaline. There are also other rides that are racy in nature, but involves beating red lights sometimes, so...... better not, not asking you to go those types. Sentosa quite a fair number of fast fellas sometimes that you can meet, coz over there also got triathletes training.
How much cycling can carry over to running, i think we cannot say for sure as it is quite individualised based on so many factors, but lately got 2 good examples in which it works for them. (generally cycling does not really carry over to running much, but we'll never know, esp if the volume is high + there is some specificity in some areas). Anyway, running can carry over more to cycling also ba.

It's about 9-10 minutes difference for the marathon. For the 5k, it's definitely more than 30s difference, around 44s - 57s even for 13 min 5k (overseas), 14 min 5k (tropical).

https://worldathletics.org/athletes/philippines/yacine-guermali-14697159

Let's look at SEA games silver medallist for 5k.

He ran two 5k in US at 13.50, 13.51. And then two 5k in Philippines and Thailand 14.35, 14.47.

The lowest % difference for the silver medallist 5k: 13.51 min/14.35 min = 5.29%

The highest % difference for silver medallist 5k: 13.50 min/14.47 min = 6.87%

For regular 19.30 runner in Singapore, the absolute time difference will be more massive.

The lowest % difference (5.29%) 5k: 18.28 (-62s difference)

The highest % difference (6.87%) 5k: 18.10 (-80s difference)

I wouldn't trust forumers too much, best to get from official times. They can falsify info. easily. If you are not 18.40 5k, then it's highly unlikely to break sub 3-marathon. Either they didn't do their 5k recently and their fitness improved along the way or they were based in warmer climate and then ran overseas or they could be not going all out for the 5k. Shing Ling marathon time still makes sense to run 2:59 in tropical since she ran 18.33 5k.

Cycling is out of the question for me since running already takes up too much time.

I have seen her trained at SK pcn frequently. Her regular daily runs are like my threshold, probably in the sub 4:45 min pace. And she also do her intervals there on pcn. Not sure if any where done at the stadiums.

Sub 4.45 min might be stretching it even for her pace, I tried 4.59 min/km for normal runs for some time and while I can do it easily, but it wasn't good for my legs in the long run.

Maybe she can recover fast, but unlikely to be recovery pace for 4.45 min/km.

already age group 7...

11.00 flat is quite good for your age, a lot of ppl can't run those times, especially with life commitments.

 

[Ender]

Sub 4.45 min might be stretching it even for her pace, I tried 4.59 min/km for normal runs for some time and while I can do it easily, but it wasn't good for my legs in the long run.

Maybe she can recover fast, but unlikely to be recovery pace for 4.45 min/km.

I once asked on SRY's page what is the quick and dirty way to guesstimate one's LT1 pace, if there is no laboratory. He said a race pace that last 3 hours. Goh Sing Ling's Sea game at 2:59:++ gives us a convenient way to guesstimate her LT1 pace. Round her time to 3hours, would give an estimate LT1 pace of 4:16 min/km. So 4:45 which is at more than 11% slower than her LT1 is safely in the zone 2 for her.

 

[Ender]

Is this related to distance? Just curious.....never kena this issue before and seriously speaking i have never paid much attention all these shoe wrapping feet correctly kind of good wrapped fit. Of coz, not incorrectly sized until the heel counter can move up and down the heels lah. I have a somewhat slim feet, normal arch.
But issues like metatarsal bone behind the toes pain lah, PF, shin splint (but way last time before real run training), ITBS, upper tendon of hamstring pain all kena before.

I would think so. I know I will kenna when my training block for SCSM reach it peak phase. During off season, even if I run 50 to 60km a week, low chance of it happening. I think distance and intensity. I wish I could nail the exact cause, but give up liao. Shoes also. Like the QD PG series all will give me toe problem for any interval training with insole on. SO now use without insole, they are fine. But the last round is it just happened during SCSM training, can't pinpoint which shoes.

 

[kaisin82]

Minus 15degrees Celsius day run, still trying out. Not bad run.

No choice, treadmill broke down, need to go figure out how to fix it.

 

[kaisin82]

Could be new shoes, new/old insole, how you run, causing your toes to press again the upper and front of shoe.

I even got it from a slightly longer shoe. There's empty space so the foot slide in front which cause the toe to hit the front part constantly.

On the other hand, some shoes that fit tighter with barely any space left are fine.

It's a mixed bag really.

I face a similar problem lately, during a long run. At the 24-25th km mark in my cheap Adidas shoe, I feel my big toe pressing to the front of the shoe and kinda bruised it. The shoe wasn't a tight shoe and has been broken in. Maybe I need to get a shoe that is more snugged.

 

[kaisin82]

first time using saf issued NB running shoe. very springy and fast, didn't expect that was the case. the only issue was it's quite heavy.

What new balance model are they using, I thought they have moved on from New Balance

 

[WussRedXLi]

BTW, just sharing for those who are interested. At least now there is a benchmark in a test to shoot for.
I also came across any PT who was testing Ben is Running YT ch and he was saying bare minimum is no less than 30 (i believe it was for FM distance). His standard is also rather decent, 1 rep must take at least 3 seconds. So, i guess dont need to over do it and aim for 50-60 reps (which is crazy endurance actually).

Below got one vid stating 20 reps as mimimum.

Personally, i think this is a very good tool for agaration, since PF, AT, SS and possibly posterior tibialis tendon pain so bloody common for recreational amateurs. No more "i think i am strong enough coz i have been doing my calf raises during my running club sessions" , you need to test and there is a minimum standard.


For runners, the absolute bare minimum, or baseline, for a single-leg calf raise strength test is generally considered to be 20 to 25 quality repetitions on each leg.

RunningPhysio +2
While 25 is often cited as the minimum threshold for injury prevention, many studies and physiotherapists set higher targets for active runners.
Facebook +1

Recommended Benchmarks for Runners

• Minimum (Baseline): 20–25 reps per leg.
• Recreational Runners: 25–30 reps per leg.
• Endurance/Marathon Runners: 30–40+ reps per leg.
• Age-Specific: While 25 is a general baseline, a 20-29 year old male should aim for ~37, while a 20-29 year old female should aim for ~30.
  Health & High Performance +6

Keys to a Valid Test
To ensure the test is accurate, you must follow strict form, as improper technique makes the test too easy:

• Full Range of Motion: Rise as high as possible on your toes and lower your heel completely (preferably with your heel hanging off a step).
• Tempo: Maintain a steady pace, such as 1 second up and 1 second down.
• No "Cheating": Keep the knee straight (do not bend it) and do not use the wall for more than light balance.
• Symmetry: There should not be a difference of more than a few reps between your left and right sides.
  MGS Physiotherapy +4

If you cannot achieve 20-25 reps, it is recommended to focus on calf strength training to prevent common injuries like Achilles tendinopathy or shin splints.

 

[dev_stg_prd]

 

[WussRedXLi]

 

[WussRedXLi]

Your Legs Weaken First - Do These 5 Exercises to Keep Them Strong (men over 40)​

 

[WussRedXLi]

For Ben Felton, seems like he has gotten a good balance that works.

~ 5hrs a week of cycling

For me is 8-10hrs of semi structured cycling, 2-2.5hrs running, but distance of interest is much shorter at 3-8km, and middle aged. Not sure what are the differences in strength training, plyo, other conditioning, recovery/nutrition emphasis.
End result, lost (ran slower) around 45 seconds for the 5k vs peak when solely running (~ 6-7 hrs of pure running then). But these 6-7 hrs i did get much more injuries/pain.

 

[sph777]

9 mins for temperate vs tropical in reality is insane actually, or 1 min per 4.6km. That means even for 5k it bare minimum can shave us 30 seconds diff over here liao.

Yah good scaling, probably train at that distance majority of the time. 2:50 for FM is 4:02 pace, but then the converse is also true ba, if 5k can only manage something like 19:30 but you are a comfortably sub-3 runner, then........the muscle fibres be like. But of coz, i guess for middle aged folks that could still be a possibility due to age......im seeing on letsrun forums that there are 19:xx sub 3 middle aged runners.
On reddit or similar forums, there are even some 16:xx folks ( not talking about 16:59 lol) who cant go sub-3 even . Of coz youngsters collegiate / cross country type runners who are running that distance more for fun and without specific long distance aerobic training ....also unknown factors like cramps / bone or simi pain / fuelling. You dont train for it of coz bo huat.....same goes for ultra distances like Mont Blanc 175km and humongous elevation gain.

I remember last time we were wondering what 2.4 / 5k timing that sprinters like Shanti can run. heh.......

edit - i gai siao you if you love racing and dont mind a bit of danger (controlled danger), come over to cycling and do duathlons. I think you'd love multi displine sports. Last weekend i came across Quantum racing team @ Sentosa. Not say racing per se, but really the pace is no joke and it's very dynamic in nature, not just racing on PCN kinda condtions. Quite addictive with the adrenaline. There are also other rides that are racy in nature, but involves beating red lights sometimes, so...... better not, not asking you to go those types. Sentosa quite a fair number of fast fellas sometimes that you can meet, coz over there also got triathletes training.
How much cycling can carry over to running, i think we cannot say for sure as it is quite individualised based on so many factors, but lately got 2 good examples in which it works for them. (generally cycling does not really carry over to running much, but we'll never know, esp if the volume is high + there is some specificity in some areas). Anyway, running can carry over more to cycling also ba.

Ben Khoo got analyse marathon timing diff for Singapore vs other cool climates previously

 

[Tudo88]

Ben Khoo got analyse marathon timing diff for Singapore vs other cool climates previously

Think Malaysia will be tougher, their courses all got rolling hills one haha

 

[Peanut15]

I would think so. I know I will kenna when my training block for SCSM reach it peak phase. During off season, even if I run 50 to 60km a week, low chance of it happening. I think distance and intensity. I wish I could nail the exact cause, but give up liao. Shoes also. Like the QD PG series all will give me toe problem for any interval training with insole on. SO now use without insole, they are fine. But the last round is it just happened during SCSM training, can't pinpoint which shoes.

yes. My 2 black toe appeared twice. 1 during SCSM training and another during SCSM half marathon. My QD shoe fit has a very good fit and my feet doesnt even slide around.

But when i wriggle my toe, the toe does touches the shoe easily (more than my other shoe from puma/addidas). So i suspect the long distance causing the toe to rub/hit the top easier than other shoe causing the black toe.

 

[Tudo88]

yes. My 2 black toe appeared twice. 1 during SCSM training and another during SCSM half marathon. My QD shoe fit has a very good fit and my feet doesnt even slide around.

But when i wriggle my toe, the toe does touches the shoe easily (more than my other shoe from puma/addidas). So i suspect the long distance causing the toe to rub/hit the top easier than other shoe causing the black toe.

Most long distance runners will have black toes one. Part and parcel of the game. I saw some china influencers, they got 3-4 black toes per foot haha

 

[Ender]

Most long distance runners will have black toes one. Part and parcel of the game. I saw some china influencers, they got 3-4 black toes per foot haha

After a while, most who just learn to live it. I even bought a cheap manicure kit from china, to trim and file the edges of the nail. Sometime even try to dig out those stuff like dried blood underneath the broken nail.

 

[WussRedXLi]

Sam Ruthe

 

[WussRedXLi]

Ben Khoo got analyse marathon timing diff for Singapore vs other cool climates previously

Singapore T100 is also basically one of the slowest, heck.....it IS the slowest out there. Based on the pro timings.
Quite significant also, off the back of my hand it's ~ 10 mins range.

Yes got places like Qatar and Dubai but then that's during their cooler months which also have very low RH%. Really need to look at the heat index temperature.
Then SG T100 is during April, which if one is into local meteorology, is when we have the %#$#$ highest temps and RH% no thanks to intermonsoon season. (no, our warmest months are not in June/July but it aint that far off to be fair). We have another intermonsoon season when we transition from SW to NE monsoon but that one usually not as hot.
And of coz, they juuussst gotta start at 2pm and 3pm for Pro women and men , coz LLST got the age group races in the morning. The only silver lining is that for the run leg, 5pm+ for women and men, a wee bit "cooler", but then the bike leg would still be terok. I think they might have constraints shifitng 3 hours later and doing evening + night racing.


Actually, just quick AI check ba....

Singapore experiences its highest heat index (or "real feel" temperature) during the inter-monsoon months of April and May, with high heat stress conditions frequently extending into June and October. Afternoon temperatures often peak between 3 pm and 6 pm, with high humidity and intense solar radiation causing heat index values to exceed on extreme days

Key facts about high heat in Singapore:

• Peak Months: April and May are historically the warmest months. In 2023, high heat stress days occurred mostly in April, May, June, and October.
• Highest Temperature:The highest daily maximum temperature ever recorded in Singapore is
  
  , recorded on 17 April 1983 and again on 13 May 2023.
• Factors: The high heat index is driven by high humidity, light winds, and intense sunshine between the Northeast and Southwest monsoon seasons.
• Daily Peaks: The highest heat index typically occurs in the afternoon (12 pm – 4 pm).
  The National Environment Agency +4

In 2023, the highest 15-minute average Wet-Bulb Globe Temperature (WBGT), which measures heat stress, was

, recorded on 24 October.
Meteorological Service Singapore

 

[WussRedXLi]

Ben Khoo got analyse marathon timing diff for Singapore vs other cool climates previously

Anyway i dont run SG SCSM being a more international race (but also early morning, so ever so slightly lower impact) , but for ang mohs age groupers (some fly in overseas to race and vacation), SG T100 you can hear expletives.
Lucky thing is for duathlon, they start and end much earlier than the triathlon (ends noon time @$#@$), so less of an impact.

Overseas athletes competing in the T100 Singapore triathlon have consistently described it as one of the most brutal, challenging, and "savage" races on the world circuit, primarily due to extreme heat and humidity. Despite the physical toll, they have praised the event for its unique, iconic urban course, excellent safety standards, and high-quality organization.
TRI247 +3
Here are specific comments from international athletes regarding the T100 Singapore:
On the Brutal Conditions

• Hayden Wilde (NZL - 2025 Winner): Described the conditions as "impossible" to fully prepare for, noting that the humidity "eats your body from within". He added that the heat made for "massive time gaps" and forced him to focus purely on his own pacing rather than chasing others.
• Marten Van Riel (BEL): Called it "the professional race in the world with the hardest conditions" and admitted to being "a little bit afraid" of the combination of heat, humidity, and the challenging course.
• Kate Waugh (GBR - 2025 Winner): Described the run as "so savage" and "twice as brutal" as she struggled with cramping, stating it was a, "fight to the very end".
• Ashleigh Gentle (AUS - 2024 Winner): Described her win as "gritty and hard," revealing it was a much more demanding battle than the previous year.
• Youri Keulen (NED - 2024 Winner): Suffered so much from exhaustion due to the heat that he did not remember the last 500 metres of his race and required an IV drip.