Profitable Group - is it credible?

[joyjoyhope]

Profitable Group

Later on, I called Amran, managed to get him at his extension, and asked him when I can expect my cheque. He told me it was Steven who is supposed to handle this, and he doesnt know. I told him he said Steven will call me, and he will sms me Steven's no, but both did not happen, and that he has not picked up his calls although I callled him everyday. I got quite angry, I told him I will stay on the line and he will go and ask Steven now when I can expect my cheque. He said Steven was with Simon, and then he hung up on me.

After that, I received a call from Steven, who claimed he was in his car and he had just received my case and will need to go back to office to check out when I can get my cheque. I asked him what he needs to check in his office that he cant do in the car by calling Amran, and thus give me a definite date. He got angry, said it was Amran who had delayed giving him the case and I cannot expect a straightaway answer. He promised to call me back in one hour. It is now 2 hours and I have tried calling him, 1st time, the phone was not switched on, 2nd time, the call went unanswered.

I have spoken to my friend's wife who is a lawyer, she says it will cost cap $500 to send a lawyer's letter to demand payment. Altho there is no promise they will pay up. I am prepared to send the letter. I called the police, who referred me to Ministry of Law, who referred me to FIDREC, who referred me to probono clinics, who referred me to Singapore mediation centre. I also called CAD, but they say I have to go down personally to make the report, which I am prepared to.

I am going down to PG office tomorrow, is there anyone else who would like to come also?

I will ask for a letter like what bella did.

 

[belledonne99]

[/QUOTE]I thought your approach on asking for proof of shipment was spot on.
I wonder if you had ever heard Dubai mentioned as a PG customer before the Dubai crisis? Sounds like a perfect excuse. I would think if PG really had a $10M order they would be singing about it from the top of Fort Canning hill and would be happy to show you proof.[/QUOTE]

Precisely, they would be more than happy to show me. Furthermore, I asked them to show me something that is sufficient proof but not confidential. Surely they can find, can't they???? Obviously, everything just DOES NOT gel. I told Tim that I am not satisfied with his reply at all.

Just 2 months ago, the reason for delay was "shorting of finance staff to process payment". How did that manpower shortage in Profitable Group transform into a Middle East debt crisis??? Chaos Theory also not so chaotic right. Their replies don't make sense at all.

 

[belledonne99]

I will let the court handle Profitable Group

After some thoughts, I decided that Profitable Group is not deserving of my waiting for another week. I am going to proceed to lodge my case at Small Claim Tribunal this week.

The reason is I don't know when they are gonna pay me. And I want Profitable Group to answer to Singapore authorities. See how ya ya they can be.

The cost is below $30 for claims between 5k to 10k. For claims up to 20k, Small Claims Tribunal will still handle, but I think you need the other party (Profitable Group in this case) to also agree to settle it at Small Claim Tribunal. Please visit Subordinate Court website.

 

[joyjoyhope]

filing at tribunal

Dear belledonne,

I have sent you a private message, pls check your inbox, thanks!

 

[redkop74]

Dear JoyJoy hope & Belledonne,

Personally I feel that we should not wait for another week for them to call as they will never do so. Looking at the posts here and one can see that they are offering excuses to delay payments. Why let them delay time after time? Those monies are our hard earn money!!

I will lodge my case with CAD and have already seek legal advice. My lawyer will advise if I can refer to case to Small Claims Tribunal. I have called FIDREC and our case is not under their jurisdiction, they are unable to handle the claim. Only finanical companies regulated by MAS can refer to FIDREC. The two options left for us are to engage lawyer to demand payment or refer to Small Claim which I have not check if they handle such cases.

I will not call PP or even visit their office even though my workplace is just opposite PP. I will let the law handle my case. No point in wasting our time visiting their office, calling them or sms-ing them.

In any case, we must get back out payout by 2010. There will be another crisis which will hit the world hard in 2012. PP will use that as an excuse for delay payment again.

Have anyone here already seek legal advice or refer the matter to Small Claims?

 

[henrylbh]

In any case, we must get back out payout by 2010. There will be another crisis which will hit the world hard in 2012. PP will use that as an excuse for delay payment again.

PP no need excuse. World ends in 2012.

 

[pp-vic]

Hi, all..
I have read through all the content regarding the topic and found out that i am not the only one who has problem on Boron payout.
My Boron supposed to mature on August09 & i have yet to received the payment. Sad to say, I also have bad experience with Steven.
I have yet to pay a visit at their office. After reading all the thread, I don't know whether it helps by going down to their ofice or not.
By the way, my tactics at the moment is keep on callng PP or Steven for payment date. It is not working at all!!!

 

[kelvintyy]

Hi, all..
I have read through all the content regarding the topic and found out that i am not the only one who has problem on Boron payout.
My Boron supposed to mature on August09 & i have yet to received the payment. Sad to say, I also have bad experience with Steven.
I have yet to pay a visit at their office. After reading all the thread, I don't know whether it helps by going down to their ofice or not.
By the way, my tactics at the moment is keep on callng PP or Steven for payment date. It is not working at all!!!

We are on the same boat. I believe there are many more investors out there. I do not understand why Profitable Group want to put their reputation and credibility at risk.

If they have the initiative to pay us on time, we will not be here voicing our grievances, or taking our time to go to Commercial Affairs. I believe all of us are good people with generous tolerance limits. Too bad, they forced us to break the limits.

Poor management.

 

[belledonne99]

Actions Against Profitable Group

SPRING.
Good news, SPRING replied today, saying that they will look into this case immediately and give me a reply by this week.
I was just about to forward my email to Head Certification of SPRING before I saw their reply.
You can find email addresses of relevant SPRINT management staff at Government Online Directory.
I feel Profitable Group's is not deserving of their SQA title. Let's see how our dear Mr Nordmann can defend his case. I don't think he can bulldoze over singapore authorities.

Small Claim Tribunal SCT
Trying to sort out the papers required today. The tricky issue here is:
Boron contract is between investor & Profitable Group Ltd (incorporated in Dubai), and to file at SCT, I need to provide business profile of the company.
I am gonna buy the business profile for Profitable Plots Ptd Ltd, Registration no. 200502453D, since they are the one who sold this product & its compliance office produced the contract. It costs about $5 and can be purchased at www.smecreditbureau.sg, according to Dun & Bradstreet, one of the 3 SCT-appointed companies.
I think there is still a case here even though the contract is with Dubai-based Profitable Group because the following 2 clauses are provided in Boron contract:

DISPUTES
Any dispute arising between the parties on any matter arising out of this schedule may be referred by either party to an independent arbitrator agreed upon by the parties or in default of agreement in accordance with the Singapore Arbitration Act 2001.

POWER OF ATTORNEY
In the event that either party fails to complete the sale or purchase of the Property in accordance with the terms of this schedule within 30 days of service of an Option Notice, that party hereby appoints the other party as its lawful attorney with full power to deal with and complete the transfer of the Property in accordance with the terms hereof and to execute any documents on its behalf relating to such transfer. This power of attorney shall continue until revoked.

 

[belledonne99]

Link to Small Claims Tribunal

http://app.subcourts.gov.sg/sct/page.aspx?pageid=4515

 

[Cheap&Gd]

$ back from PG

I supposed there are a lot of unhappy souls here. I was a investor in the AAA products, but managed to pull out early. The pull out process was painful. Earlier, I had to use the threat of calling in the media for the Group Managing Director to pay attention. Even then, it took a few more weeks of bugging them everyday b4 the cheque was ready.

And I'm talking about engaging the angmoh director here (not some manager). And yet it took weeks (he promised me days) for the payment to be ready.

The threat of using the media is now blunt. Internet forums now carry threads on the company not paying on time. The newpaper carried an article in Sep on the company on the same matter. The company will no longer respond to threats of getting journalists to come in to blow up the matter.

The managers are unlikely to have any clue when investors will be paid. They are paid to manage investors, and that's what they are doing now. They will block you from pestering their management & persuade you to give them time indefinitely. Other than that, they are as ignorant as us on what's going on. Managers are NOT in the inner circle. They are told what they are supposed to know so that they how to weave the story. If they are too stressed up, they will simply resign like many of the company staff. The directors are the ones investors should gun for.

I believe the company is stalling for time. Why do they want to do so? Because, they are expecting reasonable large sums of money coming in. Otherwise, the directors would have fled by now. If the sums of money do come in, does it mean investors will be paid? I'm not sure. I supposed those who make the loudest noises will get paid first.

What I feel investors should do is to try adding pressure leading to the winding up of the company. They will have problems receiving $ if this happens & this puts you in a better negotiating grounds. Don't bother wasting time talking to CSOs or managers

 

[belledonne99]

Chearp&Gd, yours must be a big investment. So will you invest with Profitable Group again?

 

[belledonne99]

Taking Profitable Group to Small Claims Tribunal (SCT)

Some updates on how to lodge your case at SCT.

Biz Profile required by SCT - I have purchased Profitable Plots Ptd Ltd from ACRA website for $5. It is in softcopy, which ACRA will send to your email account. Very simple.

In this report, I got to know that the company is audited by Y C Foo & Co. It also contains home addresses of company owners - Nordman and some other directors. Cool.

 

[Cheap&Gd]

Cool. With the home addresses, it's now up to your imagination what you can do. There is a chance the Directors do not stay there. They are not obligated to inform ACRA when they change addresses I supposed.

I'm an early investor, not a big investor. Did I lose money investing in them? Nope. I profitted from some of their earlier schemes. Let's just say it took a lot of efforts and anger for me to engage their management to release the money (with profits). I would be in the red as well if I did nothing.

I believe the company started out sound. It's the guaranteed returns scheme that's destroying them. If they had sold land/boron w/o promising any return, most of us will prob. sit to wait out till there are returns. I don't see people hammering the doors of Walton demanding payment.

Will I invest in them again? I quote something a fren quoted to me " Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me"

 

[kelvintyy]

Just received a email reply from the sales director of Profitable Group today.

Here what he said,

"We are working out the schedule for all the payments. There has been a global economic
crisis over the last 12 months or so that has not spared many companies. We are
rattling through all our clients payments and will have it resolved. As an indication
you can expect your payment to come through mid January 2010. I will continue to
follow up and resolve this earlier for you. If I could I will also contact you.

Meanwhile, please accept my sincere apology for any inconvenience this has caused.

Thank you."

I just replied back on email that I need the money by this week. Already waited 6 months plus.. cannot wait any longer.
If he cannot help, I will use my own ways to get it back. Likewise, if he managed to get the payout for me, I will update you guys as well.

 

[probono]

Boron not on Profitable website any more ?

It used to be on the front page but not there.

There has been a global economic
crisis over the last 12 months or so that has not spared many companies. We are
rattling through all our clients payments and will have it resolved. As an indication
you can expect your payment to come through mid January 2010.

So mid November they told you they would pay you mid December - fool you once
Mid December they tell you they will pay you mid January - fool you twice ?

If they are rattling through payments why not pay everyone here and shut this thread down ?

Nope. I profitted from some of their earlier schemes. Let's just say it took a lot of efforts and anger for me to engage their management to release the money (with profits).

Can you say which scheme or site you made money on ?
None of their UK land banking sites have got planning permission although i heard they offered some investors to move from one site to another and a few got refunds for complaining.

 

[belledonne99]

It used to be on the front page but not there.

Yes, Profitable Group said they have stopped selling Boron as the maturity period is too short (ie. payout too frequent).

 

[belledonne99]

So mid November they told you they would pay you mid December - fool you once
Mid December they tell you they will pay you mid January - fool you twice ?

If they are rattling through payments why not pay everyone here and shut this thread down ?

Kelvintyy, we can't trust them anymore. If I manage to get the Small Claims Tribunal to serve them notice, I will see whether they dare to not honour a payout date.

Right now, they dare do that to us because they think we are nobody. But I don't think they are above the laws.

 

[redkop74]

Yes. I do agree with Belledonne. No further time extension for PP.

They promise to pay me in Oct, the Nov and then now 1st week of Dec. Empty promises so far. I wanted to give them further time extension. However the attitude and the intergrity of some managers really irk me. I can still accept if they show some effort in resolving my payments. So far, it has been words and no actions from them.

Now they indicated payment to be out in Jan 2010. How true we really do not know. If they can't deliver, then Feb 2010?

This wait just cannot go on indefinate.

 

[joyjoyhope]

legal advice

Hi all,

I sought legal advice today, sending them a lawyer's letter this week. I was told that the clause in the contract about arbitration, is very expensive and proceedings will be confidential. Which means less pressure for PG, not so good for us. She suggested that we should sue instead, if the lawyer's letter does not work. If we can gather 10 of us to be represented by the same firm, it will relieve the cost and it will be more manageable per person. I'm not sure if I can give a more specific sum here. Pls send me a private msg to discuss this. Redkop, I understand you have also engaged a lawyer, perhaps we should confirm whether we want to sue them together.

Today, I also went down to the company. I was told by Simon that Tim was out of town, with Nordman, in the philippines. Chandra is in Bintan. Steven Harris was supposed to report at 12 but he never turned up. I was told Tim will be back on Fri. N I was told the biggest in charge till then is Simon, the manager. I demanded for a date where I can get my cheque, Simon claims he does not know and called Steven Harris a few times over the morning, in my presence, but could not get through. (I thought it was hilarious). I told them it does not build trust in the client, that all the in charge people are all overseas and uncontactable, while the person who claims to be in charge cannot give a promise on things that matter to the client. In the end, Simon called Chandra. But Chandra beat around the bush, contradicts himself frequently in the conversation. For eg, he claims he can see me tomorrow, but I have to come down to the office at 3 pm. Later on, he says that I heard wrongly and that he doesnt know his schedule yet. But I had a friend with me, she also heard him say that I have to come down tomorrow at 3 pm if I want to talk to him.

I would really like to know the hierachy in PG. Could anyone here pls enlighten all of us? Simon claims Chandra is his boss, and claims Chandra handles financial side, then why doesnt Simon know anything about payment?

I took a copy of their business portfolio today and made Simon go through with me where each of the listed directors are based at. The portfolio is with my lawyer. I remember that Tim and Nordman are the directors that are based in SG most of the time, the other directors are based in UK. If anyone here knows the hierachy, it will really help.

Cheap&Gd, u mentioned that you got your money back by going through the managing director, can I know who that is? Thanks so much.