Property market on market based pricing? If yes, why is there a floor price on land sales?

Jarlaxle

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Land Sales

UPPER SERANGOON VIEW (PARCELS A & B)

HAVELOCK ROAD

why is there a need for government to set a floor/minimum price to each plot of land sales?

i thought we are adopting market based pricing?
if the land goes for 100 dollar, means thats the market rate wat.

by setting a floor price, the govt is intervening with the market pricing mechanism and pushing the price up.

then govt always blame private sector for pushing property n rental price
when they are the one who is doing it lol
 

cybercom8

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simple, because if any developer wins the land bid at $100, he is still going to sell to you the unit at $1000+++ per sq ft :s13:
 

cancer81

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no sane property developer will sell the units at just a percentage markup of the land parcel's price.
 

sunzoner

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Does this then mean we continue to do something that we know is wrong?
 

cancer81

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you mean to say setting a floor price is wrong?

for land parcels, this is quite delicate. It would also depend on the legislation that applies to land parcels and land use.

do we dictate that land be used within certain period after sale? if not, cheap land parcels that is evidently in a hot zone can be snapped up and the developer simply seats on it and waits for the demand to rise. Then they can sell units that are priced very high and justify it by pointing at the higher prices of units and land surrounding their previously cheap parcel.

What the SLA should be doing is to release more land parcels and rejuvenate areas with very old development that is not worth preserving. They had made a move some time back to release the entire catalogue of land parcels going under the hammer for the year at one go instead of quarterly iirc.

Are land parcels not floor priced in Hong Kong? If it is over there I will support the removal of it here too. But no one wants to copy their public housing system here already. Makes me jin sad jin emo :(
 

focus1974

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The floor price is to a fidiciuary duty by the govt to maximize profit/revenue from the sale of a NATIONAL Asset (which belongs to the people).

Would you like it if the govt sell it at $1 psf, but the developer still will sell at $800psf to you and the govt cannot do anything.
 

sunzoner

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The floor price is to a fidiciuary duty by the govt to maximize profit/revenue from the sale of a NATIONAL Asset (which belongs to the people).

Would you like it if the govt sell it at $1 psf, but the developer still will sell at $800psf to you and the govt cannot do anything.

They do not treat land as "National asset" since they included it into HDB prices and charge HDB full fee for "buying" the land.

Of cos the govt can do something about it. Didnt they raise the cleaning charges but demand companies pay singaporean more?
 

sunzoner

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you mean to say setting a floor price is wrong?

for land parcels, this is quite delicate. It would also depend on the legislation that applies to land parcels and land use.

do we dictate that land be used within certain period after sale? if not, cheap land parcels that is evidently in a hot zone can be snapped up and the developer simply seats on it and waits for the demand to rise. Then they can sell units that are priced very high and justify it by pointing at the higher prices of units and land surrounding their previously cheap parcel.
...

SLA do this even now. Demanding that the developers starts the construction and sell by a certain period.

SLA even controls where they sell the land and how much land is sold.
 

cancer81

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They do not treat land as "National asset" since they included it into HDB prices and charge HDB full fee for "buying" the land.

Of cos the govt can do something about it. Didnt they raise the cleaning charges but demand companies pay singaporean more?
I would agree with that first statement if HDB had to bid for land as well. I highly doubt that to be true.

the left hand to right hand thing about the HDB will never go away. Suggest to scrape the program and people will revolt. It is like the conservatives saying big government is bad but they still like the programs like MedicAid and Social Security. Some even claim to have not used MedicAid when they had.

IF HDB flats were not sellable then I would definitely agree with the idea of SLA not charging HDB for land. Remember, besides flats, HDB also builds the carparks and some of the amenities.

the developers can always vote with their feet and not bid for the parcels. Sadly, there will always be a demand for land. And even though Singapore is so small, there will not be many people willing to live in places like Tengah for example....
 

sunzoner

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I would agree with that first statement if HDB had to bid for land as well. I highly doubt that to be true.

the left hand to right hand thing about the HDB will never go away...

Please read below and note "HDB buys land from the Government to develop public housing.".

HDBSpeaks : Cost of Land

[HDB Facts]
Since the Government owns State land, why can’t HDB acquire land at a cheaper price, so that flat prices can be lowered?
Posted on 06 Sep 2012 |

Can the Government unilaterally lower the cost of land for public housing, and thereby reduce the selling price for HDB flats?

That is a tempting option, but also one which presents problems, if you think deeper about the wider consequences of such a move.

The prices of new HDB flats are already heavily discounted from comparable resale flat prices. At the same time, eligible Singapore citizen households have access to CPF housing grants and concessionary HDB loans. The vast majority of families in Singapore find public housing to be within their reach.

HDB buys land from the Government to develop public housing. Some claim that this is merely a transfer of funds from one pocket to another. But that doesn’t mean that the land therefore loses its value, simply because it is sold from one state agency to another.

All land in land-scarce Singapore come with a certain value. Land may have been acquired, or it may have been reclaimed. But it commands a definite value, and all State land forms part of this country’s national reserves.

Already, land that is valued for public housing is lower than what it could have been priced, were it set aside for private housing, and released competitively through land sales programmes.

The Government manages land as the trustee of taxpayers, and relevant costs have to be properly accounted for. Even if acquired earlier, a plot of land increases in value because of the public investments put into it, such as the introduction of road, rail or sewerage links, and these efforts cost money.

To reduce the price of land arbitrarily, or not even to factor in land costs at all for the development of public housing, is tantamount to a raid on Singapore’s national reserves, if the full value of the land is not recognised and paid for. Neither the Government nor HDB can move the value of State land up and down as it pleases.

What HDB does is to recognise the value of the land it buys, as determined professionally by the Chief Valuer, and then helps Singaporean families with their first housing purchase by pricing the eventual sold flat at a price that is well below comparable market prices.

We believe this is an approach that will help both individuals and families, and which also takes into consideration the national interest.
 

cancer81

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I know they "buy" land from SLA, I am asking if HDB has to BID for land like other developers...
 

sunzoner

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I know they "buy" land from SLA, I am asking if HDB has to BID for land like other developers...

whether or not there is a "bid" is not important as the land is "valued" according to "market" price.
 

cancer81

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then our discussion is over...

I say "we agree to disagree" on this

I have always maintained I called it correct accounting...
 

sunzoner

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then our discussion is over...

I say "we agree to disagree" on this

I have always maintained I called it correct accounting...
Well, i have alway maintain hdb should remove land cost as a component and stop pegging to resale...
 

cancer81

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afaik they did the 2nd part and I would agree with that part as well....

it would supremely unfair to those who dun qualify for HDB flats for the 1st part though. They have to pay for the land their house seats on and the rest of the nation? I really have gone soft... I used to be so much more socialist >=(
 

sunzoner

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afaik they did the 2nd part and I would agree with that part as well....

it would supremely unfair to those who dun qualify for HDB flats for the 1st part though. They have to pay for the land their house seats on and the rest of the nation? I really have gone soft... I used to be so much more socialist >=(

Hmm... I'm not sure what do you mean by 1st part or second part.
 

cancer81

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new flats are not pegged to resale market pricing (afaik)
 

Jarlaxle

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simple, because if any developer wins the land bid at $100, he is still going to sell to you the unit at $1000+++ per sq ft :s13:

due to market forces and conflict of interest. its not possible to get a 100 or 1000 winning bid.
even if it does, IT IS MARKET BASED PRICING. isnt it?

actually it all started with the 1st plot of land that has the floor price.

when the floor is set above the market price. it is indirectly pushing the price up.

after so many yrs of doign the same trick.
now they tell us that it is MARKET PRICE LOL

of coz after so many yrs of compounding. even if u dun put floor price. u r not goign to get a cheap price anymore.
theres no worries from SLA about not meeting.
 

Jarlaxle

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you mean to say setting a floor price is wrong?

for land parcels, this is quite delicate. It would also depend on the legislation that applies to land parcels and land use.

do we dictate that land be used within certain period after sale? if not, cheap land parcels that is evidently in a hot zone can be snapped up and the developer simply seats on it and waits for the demand to rise. Then they can sell units that are priced very high and justify it by pointing at the higher prices of units and land surrounding their previously cheap parcel.

What the SLA should be doing is to release more land parcels and rejuvenate areas with very old development that is not worth preserving. They had made a move some time back to release the entire catalogue of land parcels going under the hammer for the year at one go instead of quarterly iirc.

Are land parcels not floor priced in Hong Kong? If it is over there I will support the removal of it here too. But no one wants to copy their public housing system here already. Makes me jin sad jin emo :(
setting floor price is not wrong.
but using it only to ur advantage only. i think its abusive.

SLA already hv regulation in place. theres no need to set floor price

actually, i wonder when will we have market pricing for WP and SP quota.
well, why hv a fixed sum? shld let all the companies outbid each other in a bidding war for the permit right?

or COE with floor price.
why stick to market pricing only? does LTA really wants to kena the $1 COE again?
 
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