Pulsar start up bonus 174%

RuiRui88

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No doubt, l am an agent.But, l am also an investor, a client, a very ordinary person. Actually, l am just like anyone here. l hope there is no bias against me.

The reason for me to start this thread is not to advertise product, just to have a different view from insurer, agent, investor, public, etc.. have some discussion over here. In fact, l will see that l work for client, but the opportunity to work for client is given by my company. Nevertheless, l hope to add in value for this thread in the end.

So, what is this pulsar?
It is ILP with all your money allocated for investment, of course need to minus all charges (Any insurer market a product with an investment element inside is called ILP regardless how many percent of the money goes into investment, how many goes into protection).

It give different bonus rate for different number of years for investment. What start up bonus 174% mean? It mean one invest in $3000, one will get $5220 bonus which give a total capital $8220 to invest into fund. In order to get 174%, one need to invest over 30 years. However, we can not say it is lock in period as it provide liquidity. Erm...l don't want to emphasize in this part now.

Under this pulsar, there are 77 funds where one can choose from. So let's look at Pictet fund since this can't be find in FSM. Let't go to the details for one of the Pictet Fund, Pictet Generics Fund (let's cal it PGF).

In order to invest in a fund, we must know what is the fund investing.
PGF invest 95% in pharmaceutical, 5% in money market. It invest shares of pharmaceutical company across different country such as US, India, Ireland, China, South Africa, Japan, Brazil, Canada, etc. So, as an investor, we must know the industry as well. What is the generic mean? Generic drug means a drug that is exactly the same as the brand-name drug, but can only be produced after the brand-name drug's patent has expired. Generic manufacturer usually can sell the generic drug cheaper with same quality because they not need to repeat the costly clinical trials.

Then, we looked at the largest holding of PGF. As updated 28/2/2015, Actavis made up of 8.17% of the fund. Actavis is a global pharmaceutical company focused on developing, manufacturing, and commercializing branded pharmaceuticals, generic, otc medicine and biologic products. Actavis outperformed S&P 500 and Dow Jones US pharmaceuticals from 2009. The same $100 invested in 31/12/09 grow to $649 (Actavis); $205 (S&P); $224 (Dow Jones Pharmaceutical). Of course, there are risks for Actavis: the major revenue is from North America. Its major industry competitor are Mylan, Teva and Sandoz. Do note that Mylan and Teva are the top 10 holdings of PGF too.

Actavis is listed in NYSE, the current price is $279.05. The minimum trading lot is 1. So why invested through fund? Can't one invest by himself? Sure can:). Just one need to be able to screen the potential share, do your own portfolio and risk management. If buy through fund, fund manager will help you to screen and manage.

So definitely have its pros and cons to buy directly though shares or buy through fund. Buying though fund indeed works on diversification and dollar cost averaging,but one can not choose which shares to buy in.

So, in fact AXA pulsar is just like unit trust.
Let's compare between unit trust and Pulsar in a neutral way.

1) Bonus
Pulsar have start up bonus whereas unit trust no. This can help in compounding effect.

2) Protection
Pulsar have 101% of protection for death benefit or 101% of account value. Some will say 100% from one's own money,haha..ok is true.. but view in different way...let's say the portfolio value shrinks to 70% of original money invested due to economy crisis, the death benefit one will get is still 101%. So, for unit trust, there is no protection, the portfolio shrink if one leaves the word, whatever money left in portfolio is whatever your family will get.

3) Sales charge
There is no sales charges for Pulsar whereas unit trust charge up to 5%. However, do note that pulsar has other charges
a)4% for 18 month money invested
b)1.5% of account value
c)admin fee $120/yr
(the 0.5% l did not include as it will be refunded in the end)

4) Switching fee
There is no switching fee for pulsar, one can do unlimited switching. For unit trust, typically about 1% of the investment.

5) Discipline investment
Pulsar provide discipline investment where one invest regularly either monthly or yearly.Some people view it as advantage, some people view it as disadvantage. Again, different people have different needs and views.
For unit trust,one can invest at any time.

6) Liquidity
Both provide liquidity.
Pulsar can withdraw any amount after 18 months, but the value inside must not less than initial 18 months money invested.
Unit trust can withdraw anytime.

In the end, different people have different needs. For example, for limited time bank promotion give interest up to 3% but there are people still buy into endowment plan. This is mainly because they want a "force" saving. Similarly, l will see pulsar as "force" investment as well. So, people who know how to save may not interested in endowment plan. Similarly, people who know how to invest, may not interested in Pulsar. Ultimately, is all about needs.

After all, when one wants buy into pulsar, unit trust, shares, future or forex, any investment tools, one may still need to do the homework.Of course, most of the people here are expert:)...If one really don't know how to do homework, can ask your respective agent or financial planner or broker agent do on your behalf. Hence, a good, helpful and knowledgeable agent are very important.

Before an insurer market a product, there is no doubt that, actuary calculated all the cost and risk. So similarly...for client, before buying a product or even after buying a product, client must also be calculative. Agent can come to help for this part as it can get quite complex sometimes. For the above pulsar example, l only view one of the company over 28 companies under Pictet Generic Fund which is only one of the 77 funds in Pulsar sub-fund.

Lastly, l hope that no one attack me for talking about this ILP.:s13:
No doubt, it has pros and cons.
l really share it sincerely...

Cheers ;)
 
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Perisher

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So many mistakes in there. I will just point out 1, if one wish to buy Actavis on NYSE, the minimum is 1 share, not 100.
2nd mistake, the cost of it is not 100*297.05, it's $297.05 USD, that's it.

If you do not know how to invest, ask the people here.
Most of them would teach you how to invest.

Don't buy ILP, don't buy unit trust.
Just DCA index ETF like ES3 or S&P 500 or even the World index, instant diversification.
Most of the above stuff has been discussed before and it's still not worth it VS buying a general market ETF.
 

AhPek_Lion

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Pulsar is one hell of a EXPENSIVE product.
If u breakdown the cost part by part and do ur math, the fees can easily add up to >5%/yr if u just invest the bare minimum of $250/mth.
 

limster

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So many mistakes in there. I will just point out 1, if one wish to buy Actavis on NYSE, the minimum is 1 share, not 100.
2nd mistake, the cost of it is not 100*297.05, it's $297.05 USD, that's it.
.

This is such a basic mistake it makes me wonder how much this person actually knows about financial products.

When agents speak offline to clients, I guess they can get away with all sorts of claims like Stocks are very expensive, my ILP is cheaper.

Here on the internet, such claims are fact-checked...
 

Perisher

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TS only know own company's product and dunno much about investment if at all.
 

jgyy1990

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The scary part of 2.74 times leaverage is that if you lose 33% your account may be wiped out
 

RuiRui88

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l do invest in shares, future and forex. My apologies for giving the wrong information at first. But is true that l never invest in shares of NYSE before, just now just l check online wrote 100 shares. l check again, is one share. Apologies again. However, l learn from mistake.

Thanks for correcting me, now l know NYSE can trade 1 lot, sounds great ;)

By the way, l never say ILP is cheaper than shares. l know how powerful if one know how to invest in shares and how easy to invest in shares. But still got people don't wish to start on their own.

l have this experience one of my friend interested in shares investment and spend few thousands to attend to class.Then, the trainer in class recommend few shares to buy. l told her we can invest ourselves, l even provide her some apps or online software such as chartnexus to start, but in the end, she still not bother with me ;(
 
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Perisher

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l appreciate your comment, l edited it already. Thanks!

One don't just edit original post. It's crucial to let people know how inadequate your knowledge of investment is.

Also, if you meant to edit, let the original post stay, and put a edit below.

DO you know what is DCA index ETF? Do you know how it works?
If you do and you still sell pulsar, you are not doing your client any good.
If you don't, ask around here. Look at Shiny Things' Thread.
 

Perisher

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By the way, l never say ILP is cheaper than shares. l know how powerful if one know how to invest in shares and how easy to invest in shares. But still got people don't wish to start on their own.

l have this experience one of my friend interested in shares investment and spend few thousands to attend to class.Then, l told her we can invest ourselves, l even provide her some apps or online software such as chartnexus to start, but in the end, she still not bother with me ;(

The thing is, you don't even seem clear on what shares investment is, how to convince your friend?

I do agree that some people just never ever trust buying shares themselves.
They rather pay insurance agent to do it for them, sadly.

But for the sake of the masses, don't promote ILP.

It's good that you recognize that your product is vastly inferior to DCA ETF, not individual shares, not unit trust.
 

Perisher

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Here is Shiny Things' take on the matter... Not updated but I suppose, nothing has changed since the product lauched.

Good god, dude. Have a look at the fee list:

  • Account Maintenance Fee: 4.0% per annum / 12 of account value of first 18 months premium
  • Investment Maintenance Fee: 1.5% per annum / 12 of total account value
  • Administrative Fee: SGD 10 / USD 8 per month
  • Policy Maintenance Fee: 0.5% per annum / 12 x initial annual Regular Premium x No. of year(s) for which policy has been in force
  • Insurance Charge: For Enhanced Death Benefit only.
  • Early Encashment Charge (EEC): Account value of first 18 months premium x EEC%
  • EEC%=100% for first year; the rest is with reference to number of years in remaining premium payment term years.
  • Management Charge: According to the investment-linked policy sub-fund you choose. Details can be found in the Fund Summary.
  • Switching Fee: None

So for the first two years or so, you're paying 5.5% on the account maintenance fees and investment maintenance fees. After that point, it drops to "just" 1.5%.

But then a Policy Maintenance fee starts to kick in, because you haven't charged enough already! By the time the policy reaches its 20th year, you're paying ten percent of every new dollar you put into the account in fees. That is an absolute disgrace.

And then on top of that the client's being directed into ridiculously high-cost funds (2% per annum is stupidly high).

And if you want to make a top-up investment, you get charged five percent on that extra money. Five percent brokerage! If I charged anyone five percent when I was working in a bank they'd have hung up the phone and never dealt with me again.

This is a bad product. This is convincing people that they're being smart and sensible investors by starting a regular savings plan, and then bending them over and screwing them.
 

limster

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5.5% annual fees (deducted monthly) <-- This one I got nothing to say
2% expense ratio of unit trust (Pictet Generics, 2.03% TER)
$120 annual fee <--- can buy term policy for this amount already.

Total charges, 7.5% and $120 a year.

So if stock market does well and grows 10%. My return is less than 2.5%.

If the stock market don't move. I lose 7.5%.

Finally, the start up bonus of 174% is actually a bonus of 5.80% a year and only if you take up a 30 year plan. So to be fair to you, this means that if I agree to give AXA my money for 30 years, they agree to only charge me 1.7% + $120 for the privilege of buying unit trust with expense ratio of 2%.
 

limster

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It give different bonus rate for different number of years for investment. What start up bonus 174% mean? It mean one invest in $3000, one will get $5220 bonus which give a total capital $8220 to invest into fund. In order to get 174%, one need to invest over 30 years. However, we can not say it is lock in period as it provide liquidity. Erm...l don't want to emphasize in this part now.

So to prevent him from always changing his posts, need to quote it.

When I read the prospectus, it says that the bonus of "174%" is slowly given to you over 30 years and not all at once. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Your post seems to suggest that the 174% is immediately given to you at the start.

If you are wrong and I am right, that's a bit sad isn't it, that you either don't know your own product or are trying to mislead?
 
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havetheveryfun

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l do invest in shares, future and forex. My apologies for giving the wrong information at first. But is true that l never invest in shares of NYSE before, just now just l check online wrote 100 shares. l check again, is one share. Apologies again. However, l learn from mistake.

Thanks for correcting me, now l know NYSE can trade 1 lot, sounds great ;)

By the way, l never say ILP is cheaper than shares. l know how powerful if one know how to invest in shares and how easy to invest in shares. But still got people don't wish to start on their own.

l have this experience one of my friend interested in shares investment and spend few thousands to attend to class.Then, the trainer in class recommend few shares to buy. l told her we can invest ourselves, l even provide her some apps or online software such as chartnexus to start, but in the end, she still not bother with me ;(

yes.. some ppl don't wish to start investment on their own.. but still why frigging ILPs ?

insurance companies also have savings plan, endowment plans, separate plans that invest in funds and stocks WITHOUT the insurance portion. Why do agents like to recommend ILPs only though instead of the other policies or plans
 

RuiRui88

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Direct copy paste from the brochure

Start-up Bonus = Regular Premium payment for 1st policy year x applicable
Start-up Bonus rate x Premium Payment Term
Illustrative Example:
Premium Payment Term 30 years
Monthly Regular Premium SGD 1,000
Applicable Start-up Bonus rate 4.8%
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If the Regular Premium is paid on a monthly basis, the Start-up Bonus
payable upon each Regular Premium payment = SGD 1,000 x 4.8% x 30 =
SGD 1,440
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Start-up Bonus payable = SGD 1,440 x 12 = SGD 17,280
For full details on the applicable Start-up Bonus rate, please refer to the
Pulsar product summary
 

RuiRui88

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The scary part of 2.74 times leaverage is that if you lose 33% your account may be wiped out

It is true that leverage indeed got pros and cons, if there is any loss, it amplify the loss. If there is any gain,it amplify the gain
 

limster

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Direct copy paste from the brochure

Start-up Bonus = Regular Premium payment for 1st policy year x applicable
Start-up Bonus rate x Premium Payment Term
Illustrative Example:
Premium Payment Term 30 years
Monthly Regular Premium SGD 1,000
Applicable Start-up Bonus rate 4.8%
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If the Regular Premium is paid on a monthly basis, the Start-up Bonus
payable upon each Regular Premium payment = SGD 1,000 x 4.8% x 30 =
SGD 1,440
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Start-up Bonus payable = SGD 1,440 x 12 = SGD 17,280
For full details on the applicable Start-up Bonus rate, please refer to the
Pulsar product summary

Ok, thanks for the clarification that it is payable immediately. However, I have no idea how it adds up to 174%. First year premium paid is $12000. You give me 174% on the first year premium, that should be $20,880.
 
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