[Official] EDMW Jobless Club - Part 8

[Rainyriver]

believe it or not, this type is the worst kind. They know a bit and believe that they know better, then they acted with this self inflated confidences that they know it and create a bigger mess than others.

The best working relationship with a decent HR is to involve them in the management decision and discussion before making any hasty decision. I had such working r/s with a few business heads in one of my past employment and we work to push for things forward.

But if you come across less than competent HR, then u are in for a ride and things can come back to haunt u in more ways than one.

HR is not ur fren, but they are also not ur enemy. A decent HR will try to help u if u ask for help but u must have the common sense not to be ingrates and turn on them, then they stop helping and u act one innocent and blame HR for not being helpful . I am in a good position to share this pov from personal experience. There was once during the year end, an employee was rushing a project and cant clear his paternity leaves which will be forfeited at the end of the year. He approached me and asked for advice that between work deadline and forfeiture of leave what can he do, in an act of kindness, I advised him to approach his manager and have a discussion on the following arrangement, he apply for paternity leave via the system and his manager approve it, so on record it is consumed and he is not forfeiting any leave. Then his manager request for him to come back on those days where he is on paternity leave to assist in the work deadlines. In return, his manager can grant him off days to make up for the days he comes back to work and these off days will be given and monitor under the discretion of his manager as company system does not oversee the granting of off days, so these off days can be carried over to the following year without forfeiture.

All the while i told him to do this in discussion with his manager privately to have this gentlemen's agreement. This piece of trash, turns around sent and email to his boss and HOD, cc me and said i told him to plan for this and ask for them for approval in writing. u have any idea how much i can be wacked by the management for this anot? When I saw the email, I was shocked and immediately replied denying everything and demanded the employee to provide any written evidence that I had instructed him to do such a thing else I will escalate and recommend a warning letter for him. The HOD intervene and had a close door session with me to discuss this in private and I told him the truth, that while i had advise the employee on this workaround, this was suppose to be done in private between him and his manager but he choose to write and email and tried to push the agenda forward by implicating me. The HOD understand the position where the employee's email had put me in and he sent an email to clarify that the employee has been misrepresented facts in his previous email and apologize for the misunderstanding and cite that the employee will discussed his leave plans with his manager accordingly.

Now this is just one of the more memorable incident that I have experienced among others as HR. In what grounds does ppl have any rights to blame me for going by the books and not helping when lesson is learn through experience that those we have helped turned around and stab us in the back?

Hahaha this is one v good example. Sounds like u really care for ur stakeholders. I personally will not extend this workaround to this fella in future - sounds like someone who cant read the room. Cos yes I got propose a similar workaround before just cos the employee cannot just open mouth discuss w his manager on pushing back timelines. It is not ur onus for u to handle both his leave n his work deadlines. He cant manage his problem.

 

[Rainyriver]

what about this scenario

an employee kena PIP by his superior but he feels it is unfair.

he brings it up to HR and provides all the evidence why he feels it is unfair. But the superior can just say about his other non-tangible stuff like attitude etc. the HR got no way to prove this other than going around to interview people who have worked with this guy. But then the people who have worked with this guy is also under the same superior so naturally they won't want to offend the superior even if they know the truth.

At the end of the day, the PIP employee and HR also can't do much one especially if the superior is high ranking in the company. the HR is just going to make his own life miserable in the company by going against the superior even if the PIP employee is right.

Pip is a mechanism used by the management. Used correctly it will result in the employee’s improvement in work output.

But most of the time the PIP is mainly a documentation process on the employee’s shortcomings, just in case the employee file a claim to MOM for unjust dismissal or termination.

If the documentation is mainly factual - ie did not come to work on time, did not deliver work despite multiple reminders, did not meet sales target, written complaints from subordinates on the conduct of the employee etc…then the employee really does not have much grounds to say it is unfair.

Max HR can do is advise him to start looking out. But before it gets to there usually there is due process to see if efforts had been made to improve the performance of the employee.

 

[havetheveryfun]

Pip is a mechanism used by the management. Used correctly it will result in the employee’s improvement in work output.

But most of the time the PIP is mainly a documentation process on the employee’s shortcomings, just in case the employee file a claim to MOM for unjust dismissal or termination.

If the documentation is mainly factual - ie did not come to work on time, did not deliver work despite multiple reminders, did not meet sales target, written complaints from subordinates on the conduct of the employee etc…then the employee really does not have much grounds to say it is unfair.

Max HR can do is advise him to start looking out. But before it gets to there usually there is due process to see if efforts had been made to improve the performance of the employee.

nope in my example the PIP used was more likely to make employees quit on their own accord because they don't want to pay retrenchment benefits.

as the job was more of attached to other companies and the superior hired too much while things were going well, then he didnt manage to win the renewal so a lot of redundant headcounts he dont know what to do with them.

 

[ZETMAN]

nope in my example the PIP used was more likely to make employees quit on their own accord because they don't want to pay retrenchment benefits.

as the job was more of attached to other companies and the superior hired too much while things were going well, then he didnt manage to win the renewal so a lot of redundant headcounts he dont know what to do with them.

this is also why i emphasize in an earlier response that hr is made scapegoat by management, in ur example, they weaponize PIP and in this case, HR has limited control over the entire situation. What HR can only do is to try to do it in a manner as respectful as possible.

 

[Rainyriver]

nope in my example the PIP used was more likely to make employees quit on their own accord because they don't want to pay retrenchment benefits.

as the job was more of attached to other companies and the superior hired too much while things were going well, then he didnt manage to win the renewal so a lot of redundant headcounts he dont know what to do with them.

Yeah then its the not v correct way of using pip lor. Its essentially documentation for MOM to see only if they kick pple out. Some sinkies dont want to so mafan so quit n find job. Wait until ur that example meets an employee who willing to play bigger and waste both their time and his in his complaint against the coy.