Any thoughts about Fundsmith?

AMD_FREAK

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I was introduced by my insurance agent about Fundsmith.. Fantastic growth over the years, 5 morningstar rating.

Basically put in a preset amount of $ every month.. As i'm an investment noob, i would love to hear opinions from experts here.
 

parallelyy

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Did a bit of googling

I assume the agent is from Aviva?

Fundsmith itself seems to have a good investment methodology and do not have upfront charge. Personally, I believe it is a high risk fund as it deals with equities and they also do not employ currency hedging, so they seem quite exposed to forex risks. So, if you do want to invest in it, this is something you have to take note.

Additionally, I notice they do not seem to be open to investment from countries other than the UK, so likelihood, the fund is based on British pounds (another forex risk). More importantly, I suppose you have to invest into this fund through an ILP? If so, then you have to take note of the ILP charges as well.
 

AMD_FREAK

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Did a bit of googling

I assume the agent is from Aviva?

Fundsmith itself seems to have a good investment methodology and do not have upfront charge. Personally, I believe it is a high risk fund as it deals with equities and they also do not employ currency hedging, so they seem quite exposed to forex risks. So, if you do want to invest in it, this is something you have to take note.

Additionally, I notice they do not seem to be open to investment from countries other than the UK, so likelihood, the fund is based on British pounds (another forex risk). More importantly, I suppose you have to invest into this fund through an ILP? If so, then you have to take note of the ILP charges as well.

Thank you so much for the info! I will take the forex risk into consideration. Yes it was introduced from Aviva, and ILP product.

I'm wondering if there's any other similar products in the market for me to do comparison?
 

kehyi4

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I don't mind ILP if it's too good to miss.
You are a good man, sir. Your agent should thank you for funding his new Mercedes S-Class/BMW 7/Audi A8 ... many agents would l-o-v-e to have carrot-head er, i mean client, like you ;)
 

wealth_farmer

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Thank you so much for the info! I will take the forex risk into consideration. Yes it was introduced from Aviva, and ILP product.

I'm wondering if there's any other similar products in the market for me to do comparison?
Don't misunderstand the forex risks. A fund (ILP or ETF) can be denominated in any number of currencies, but you should only be concerned with the currencies of the stocks that make up the fund. For e.g. the IWDA fund that unhinged shared with you comes listed in USD, GBP, CHF etc etc. But it is made up of equities all over the world with about 58% listed in the US in USD.

In any case, with the current interconnectedness of the world economy, even when you buy into Singtel, you are exposed to other currencies such as the AUD. And most US companies derive their income all over the world, and so we are all exposed to currency risks whether we like it or not. It's just a matter of who is managing that risk.

A so-called currency-hedged fund is not necessarily a good idea, as all those currency hedging employed by the fund manager comes with costs; there is no free lunch. A plain vanilla "unhedged" fund will be just fine.

Like kehyi4 and unhinged, I don't think ILP is a good idea. Don't lump investment and insurance together because you end up with something that does neither well. An ILP does not provide enough protection per insurance buck, and doesn't provide enough returns either due to high costs. Your premiums for the first three years go towards lining the pockets of the insurance company and your agents and not really into the investment bucket. In this sense, it does worse than a normal high-cost unit trusts.

And unit trusts in turn, suffers from high fund expense ratios, typically above 1% annually. Imagine, if the fund returns 3%, one third of your returns gets eaten up. And also it's quite hard for active fund managers to consistently outperform the market.

Lastly, Morningstar ratings mean nothing about future fund performance. Even Morningstar itself is at pains to point it out. Smarter people than you and I (read: Nobel prize winning economists) have done research backtesting highly rated Morningstar funds and proved that future performance is, if anything, worse for 5-star funds as performance mean reverts. This is due to many factors, but I'll just list one of them here: As a fund becomes more successful, insurance agents will start to tout its performance to retail investors saying that it's a very good fund. And while that is true when that fund was just a $50 million size fund, it becomes a victim of its own success when suddenly fresh funds pour into the fund manager due to its success. Fresh funds is AWESOME for fund managers as their fees are based on percentage of assets under management (AUM), but bigger funds find it more difficult to hunt for returns as it becomes more difficult to buy and sell stocks without moving the market. Even Warren Buffett said that if he was still managing a fund of the size when he was just starting out, he can guarantee 50% returns every year, but not now that he is managing a behemoth.

TLDR: stay away from ILPs, and high costs funds. No one can guarantee fund returns, but high costs are recurring and guaranteed to eat into whatever returns you get.
 
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parallelyy

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Risks are risks, with high risks comes high returns, it is true that we're already exposed to a lot of currency risk. That does not mean one more layer doesn't matter. Regardless, I agree hedging comes at a cost, and a plain vanilla unhedged fund is good enough, but it's better to understand the risks you're taking as well and able to stomach it.

While I agree that ILP sucks, I believe unit trust funds do have their merits. Of course, if a unit trust that charges 1% expense ratio only gives you 3% in returns is terrible. However, there are also unit trust funds that have given way higher returns as well, it just takes careful selection from the numerous funds out there and consideration of where the market is moving. After that, it's knowing when to take in the profits.
 

wealth_farmer

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Risks are risks, with high risks comes high returns, it is true that we're already exposed to a lot of currency risk. That does not mean one more layer doesn't matter. Regardless, I agree hedging comes at a cost, and a plain vanilla unhedged fund is good enough, but it's better to understand the risks you're taking as well and able to stomach it.

While I agree that ILP sucks, I believe unit trust funds do have their merits. Of course, if a unit trust that charges 1% expense ratio only gives you 3% in returns is terrible. However, there are also unit trust funds that have given way higher returns as well, it just takes careful selection from the numerous funds out there and consideration of where the market is moving. After that, it's knowing when to take in the profits.
I stepped in to clarify the forex risk part because in your initial reply, you referred to forex risks quite generically and seem to suggest that some form of currency hedging is necessary to look for in funds to invest in. This is not just another layer of risk. In risk management, there are different ways to attack it; avoidance, acceptance, transfer, mitigation. IMHO, this forex risk is ok for acceptance as the diversification benefits outweighs the fx fluctuation risk. Mitigation, in this case using derivatives to hedge the currency risk, only adds a layer of unnecessary costs. But I think we are agreed on that.

As for your point on unit trusts, the main problem is consistency of returns. It is entirely possible and there are funds out there that have stellar ten-year records of beating their benchmarks. The issues are that those are rather rare (some statistics quote that 80% of actively managed funds fail to beat their benchmark), and also the problem of this outperformance reverting to the mean. It is impossible to know in advance which are the managers that will outperform the market. And performance chasing (by buying well-performing funds with stellar recent records) usually leads to grief.

If by unit trusts you mean one of those Vanguard mutual funds that are broad-based, index-tracking, low cost mutual funds, then I totally agree with you. In fact, mutual funds are preferable to ETFs for me because i.) as they are not listed on an exchange, I don't have to pay brokerage, ii.) there is no bid-ask spread to cross when I buy and sell, iii.) again because they are not listed on an exchange, it's more difficult to speculate on them, and hence better for long-term investors like myself.

Unfortunately most of the unit trusts we have in Singapore are of the actively managed, high cost variety. I would have no objections to buying an unit trust that charges me 1% to 2% per annum if they always beat the benchmark. But there have been many studies done that show this is simply not the case. And the odds that you can find the outperforming funds that will continue to outperform over a timescale measured in decades is heavily stacked against you. Of course, if you can do that, you can become the next Warren Buffet or Peter Lynch, and more power to you.

If you're so inclined, please check out these books which explains the above far better than I can:
1.) Common Sense on Mutual Funds by John C. Bogle
2.) Winning the Loser's Game by Charles D. Ellis
 

w1rbelw1nd

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Risks are risks, with high risks comes high returns, it is true that we're already exposed to a lot of currency risk. That does not mean one more layer doesn't matter. Regardless, I agree hedging comes at a cost, and a plain vanilla unhedged fund is good enough, but it's better to understand the risks you're taking as well and able to stomach it.

While I agree that ILP sucks, I believe unit trust funds do have their merits. Of course, if a unit trust that charges 1% expense ratio only gives you 3% in returns is terrible. However, there are also unit trust funds that have given way higher returns as well, it just takes careful selection from the numerous funds out there and consideration of where the market is moving. After that, it's knowing when to take in the profits.

I personally dont consider foreign FX exposure as a risk, would rather see SGD over-exposure as a risk itself.

Let us not forget Singapore does not produce many of the goods and necessities, and these are subjected to import inflation. These goods and necessities are exposed to FX exposure, more specifically SGD depreciation against our major imports.

For those advocating huge SGD exposure, perhaps you can read up about the woes of the UK citiziens who are facing huge cost pressures from imported inflation arising from GBP depreciation(Brexit)?

I would like to see discussions against my points above, if anyone is interested in sharing more.
 

Shiny Things

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So for everyone who's wondering what this is...

Fundsmith is a unit trust manager like Fidelity or Aberdeen or whatever. They were started a few years ago by a bloke named Terry Smith (who named the company after himself, I think he should really have called it "Terryfund" but whatever), with the aim of being a lower-cost but still active fund manager (as opposed to being totally passive like Vanguard's index funds).

I think their main product is a global equity fund, which means you're paying them to pick stocks worldwide, with no focus on Singapore.

They're not bad per se, but the fees are still pretty high (I think 0.9% on the institutional class of their global equity fund), and if you're buying it from Aviva it's going to be wrapped in an ILP that's going to take you right up the clacker.

You're better off running a mile from Aviva. If what you want is a global equity fund, you could save a lot of money by opening a Stanchart account and buying a global index ETF like IWDA. If you just want "an investment" and you've never invested before, look at POSB Invest-Saver instead.
 

Mecisteus

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If you look at their asset allocation, almost 50% are in healthcare and technology stocks.

These are the 2 sectors that had performed well. And I predict they will continue to generate superior returns than the market in the longer term. So just accumulate the ETFs for these sectors yourself.

PS: These sectors are currently trading at richer valuations than the market. So you might want to spread your purchases.
 

splasshh

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Interesting Fund

I'm interested in this fund too. How much sales charge and other cost component Aviva quoted you? Things to consider:

  • Offshore fund in pounds. Currency weakens, the value weakens.
  • Aviva Sales Charge?
  • Insurance cost component, how much? will it grow as you age and eating the investment part?
  • Solid track record of >19%/annum. This fund mgr is considered as UK best FM.
  • do we need to worry about tax for offshore funds?
 

limster

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I'm interested in this fund too. How much sales charge and other cost component Aviva quoted you? Things to consider:

  • Offshore fund in pounds. Currency weakens, the value weakens.
  • Aviva Sales Charge?
  • Insurance cost component, how much? will it grow as you age and eating the investment part?
  • Solid track record of >19%/annum. This fund mgr is considered as UK best FM.
  • do we need to worry about tax for offshore funds?

you created this account to advertise this fund?

"UK best fund manager?" :s22::s22::s22::s22:
 
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