[CPF BRS] What happens when pass away at 80

[item2sell]

Scenario:

A is 55yo this year. BRS is $93k, and has $100K in OA + CPF

He has a property which lease expires in 45 years time. (So, he will be 100yo when lease ends).

He OPT for BRS, and withdraws $100k at 55.

When A pass away at 80 years old (HDB lease left 20 years, assuming still worth 100k).

Then his son B sells the flat at 100k, how much can his son take back?

 

[fr33d0m]

from what I read, it is just a pledge or charge on the property. It does not take away the ownership.

A property pledge does not have higher payout like FRS. You get what you paid, which is BRS.

His son probably need take it back via CPF inheritance, than sale proceeds.

 

[item2sell]

from what I read, it is just a pledge or charge on the property. It does not take away the ownership.

A property pledge does not have higher payout like FRS. You get what you paid, which is BRS.

His son probably need take it back via CPF inheritance, than sale proceeds.

the "charge on property" is something like Bank loan, where you need to payback the Bank first when you sell the HDB.

Now, assume the flat is sold at $90k, instead of $100k.
There is difference of $3k (from BRS of $93k which A took out)

Does this mean his son needs to topup $3k to CPF after selling.

If so, the better option is don't sell and let the lease expire?

 

[fr33d0m]

the "charge on property" is something like Bank loan, where you need to payback the Bank first when you sell the HDB.

Now, assume the flat is sold at $90k, instead of $100k.
There is difference of $3k (from BRS of $93k which A took out)

Does this mean his son needs to topup $3k to CPF after selling.

If so, the better option is don't sell and let the lease expire?

The father cannot take 93K from CPF. CPF LIFE only gives the father annuity for BRS for whatever plan the father chooses.

The sale proceed will go to the father's CPF, up to 93K(I am not sure about accured interest). The son can get whatever sale proceed above 93K and the rest, up to 93K, through CPF inhereitance.

IMO, the flow is: the father dies -> the son inherits the HDB -> the son sells the HDB -> CPF takes up to 93K from HDB sale proceed, deposits into the father's CPF -> the son inherits the father's CPF.

Maybe CPF will remove the charge/pledge after death. If the son inherits the HDB without pledge or charge, he can receive full sale proceed of HDB.

 

[Geeezz]

This is quite interesting to know. I have not met anyone or know anyone who pledge their property, would like to know what happen as well. Huai cpf have to make things so confusing

 

[item2sell]

The father cannot take 93K from CPF. CPF LIFE only gives the father annuity for BRS for whatever plan the father chooses.

The sale proceed will go to the father's CPF, up to 93K(I am not sure about accured interest). The son can get whatever sale proceed above 93K and the rest, up to 93K, through CPF inhereitance.

IMO, the flow is: the father dies -> the son inherits the HDB -> the son sells the HDB -> CPF takes up to 93K from HDB sale proceed, deposits into the father's CPF -> the son inherits the father's CPF.

Maybe CPF will remove the charge/pledge after death. If the son inherits the HDB without pledge or charge, he can receive full sale proceed of HDB.

if the sale proceeds exceed the Pledge value of $93k, then it is easy.
Son gets the cash (minus $93k)

What happens if the sales proceed is below the Pledge $93k
Since the HDB lease is very short.
The HDB may be sold below $93k.

Now after A passed away, and the son inherit the HDB.
Son continue to stay there.
At the end of the lease, what happen to the “missing” $93k?
Claw from the son?

 

[kehyi4]

Let's see what CPF FAQ says:
https://www.cpf.gov.sg/Members/Schemes/schemes/other-matters/cpf-withdrawals-on-other-grounds

Q What happens to the property owned by the deceased?
A If the deceased bought the property with CPF savings, the property is not covered by CPF nomination and it will form part of the estate of the deceased. There is no need to refund the CPF savings withdrawn for the property to the CPF account.

 

[item2sell]

Let's see what CPF FAQ says:
https://www.cpf.gov.sg/Members/Schemes/schemes/other-matters/cpf-withdrawals-on-other-grounds

Q What happens to the property owned by the deceased?
A If the deceased bought the property with CPF savings, the property is not covered by CPF nomination and it will form part of the estate of the deceased. There is no need to refund the CPF savings withdrawn for the property to the CPF account.

Really. So good!

No need to payback $93k at end of lease

 

[reddevil0728]

Really. So good!

No need to payback $93k at end of lease

It’s the deceased money. So I dun see why is it good? More like normal?

 

[fr33d0m]

if the sale proceeds exceed the Pledge value of $93k, then it is easy.
Son gets the cash (minus $93k)

What happens if the sales proceed is below the Pledge $93k
Since the HDB lease is very short.
The HDB may be sold below $93k.

Now after A passed away, and the son inherit the HDB.
Son continue to stay there.
At the end of the lease, what happen to the “missing” $93k?
Claw from the son?

there is no missing 93K. The father only had his own 93K. the CPF did not pay extra 93K to the father....

CPF may choose to discharge the property pledge/charge so the son inherits the proeprty unencumbered.

 

[dork32]

you people do have funny ideas about the property pledge

if you have 180k,

you choose frs, 180k in cpf life. you get a higher payout but 0 cash

you choose brs with property, 90k in your cpf life. you get a lower payout and 90k cash.

the idea is this: you have a property, you no need pay rental. you can have less payout and yet survive.

so you sell your property on brs. now you payout is low and you still have to rental. so you have to refund the 90k back to the cpf life to give a payout that can sustain you expenditure + rental.

cpf is very stupid. they assume that you do not have property means you have to pay rental. They cannot imagine that you can stay free with your kids and sleep at park benches.

and if you die, everything is still your money.

if you have to pay back the 90k cpf upon death, only a real idiot with choose brs.

 

[item2sell]

you serious you know wat you are tokking?

Yeah, I am confused.

Lets see it another way.

A has $0 in CPF, at 55, he pledge his HDB for BRS ($93k).

At 65, he gets paid monthly till he pass away at 80yo.

His son gets the HDB (left 20 years).
His son sells HDB at $90k.

So, his son gets the $90k in cash. Right?

 

[fr33d0m]

Yeah, I am confused.

Lets see it another way.

A has $0 in CPF, at 55, he pledge his HDB for BRS ($93k).

At 65, he gets paid monthly till he pass away at 80yo.

His son gets the HDB (left 20 years).
His son sells HDB at $90k.

So, his son gets the $90k in cash. Right?

at 0 CPF, he receives 0 from CPF LIFE.

CPF not stupid, okay?

stupid people think CPF is stupid....

 

[8zaoyu]

Let's see what CPF FAQ says:
https://www.cpf.gov.sg/Members/Schemes/schemes/other-matters/cpf-withdrawals-on-other-grounds

Q What happens to the property owned by the deceased?
A If the deceased bought the property with CPF savings, the property is not covered by CPF nomination and it will form part of the estate of the deceased. There is no need to refund the CPF savings withdrawn for the property to the CPF account.

Because for a public HDB flats, that flat is covered by the Housing Protection Insurance Scheme. If I cover myself 100% of the mortgage and die before mortgage ends, my dependents just get that flat. Got to check the HDB/CPF Scheme on this. For pte, usually sell off the house to pay up mortgage then if left anything(left Death Insurance) to inheritees, will be good. No need to opt on BRS/FRS if you the option on Pte Annuity

 

[item2sell]

at 0 CPF, he receives 0 from CPF LIFE.

CPF not stupid, okay?

stupid people think CPF is stupid....

That's why the auto pledge of HDB if you have $0 in CPF

 

[fr33d0m]

Because for a public HDB flats, that flat is covered by the Housing Protection Insurance Scheme. If I cover myself 100% of the mortgage and die before mortgage ends, my dependents just get that flat. Got to check the HDB/CPF Scheme on this. For pte, usually sell off the house to pay up mortgage then if left anything(left Death Insurance) to inheritees, will be good

not exactly. it also depends on how the ownership is structured.

for HDB, joint tenancy, the other owners own 100%.

tenancy-in-common, the heirs inherit the deceased share of the property.

 

[yoongf]

Where u read abt " auto pledge"?
I doubt such a thing exist.

That's why the auto pledge of HDB if you have $0 in CPF

 

[yoongf]

If u hv less than 60k, u wont even be part of CPF Life, so the BRS/FRS thing is a non issue.

 

[item2sell]

My CPF info is outdated.

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/what-is-cpf-minimum-sum-7-things-to-know

What happens when members do not have the Minimum Sum?

Even if a member is unable to meet the Minimum Sum, he can still withdraw up to the first $5,000 from his CPF accounts.

He also does not need to top up the shortfall in cash or sell his property. The CPF Board will automatically pledge the property he has bought using his CPF for up to half of the Minimum Sum. The pledge amount is either the amount of CPF used for the property or the Minimum Sum shortfall - whichever is lower.

He will still get monthly payouts when he reaches 65, based on how much cash savings he has in his Retirement account. But his monthly payouts will be lower.

 

[lls0101]

My CPF info is outdated.

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/what-is-cpf-minimum-sum-7-things-to-know

What happens when members do not have the Minimum Sum?

Even if a member is unable to meet the Minimum Sum, he can still withdraw up to the first $5,000 from his CPF accounts.

He also does not need to top up the shortfall in cash or sell his property. The CPF Board will automatically pledge the property he has bought using his CPF for up to half of the Minimum Sum. The pledge amount is either the amount of CPF used for the property or the Minimum Sum shortfall - whichever is lower.

He will still get monthly payouts when he reaches 65, based on how much cash savings he has in his Retirement account. But his monthly payouts will be lower.

Please see your own quote:

"He will still get monthly payouts when he reaches 65, based on how much cash savings he has in his Retirement account. But his monthly payouts will be lower."

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