Creative Stage V2 review and measurement

[wwenze]

0. Amplitude modulation issue



Use analog-in to avoid.

1. Subjective listening

Upon first power up, it was underwhelming.

After a while, it surprised me. It was pleasant. Surprisingly pleasant. To the point where I couldn't believe this is a soundbar and is produced by Creative and at this price.

And then after a while I found it missing some things again. And this gets very clear when switching back to my Usher S-520. And I figured out what made it sound underwhelming to begin with.

Because one whole big chunk of audio frequencies are missing. Ok, missing is an overexaggeration, but these frequencies are definitely lower in volume.

However, these missing frequencies are in the treble, which you can reduce volume by a lot and you would still think the sound is okay. Try it yourself if you don't believe me. Our hearing can actually remove a lot of >=4kHz and you would still think it sounds good.

And the rest of the frequencies are well-done in such a way that it does not sound obtrusive. So give a short time, and my brain accustomed to the sound. And it is a sound that I can accustom to. Unlike z623 and Leviathan for example… So we are already doing pretty well for the money already.

I overuse this description a lot - It sounds good until you have a proper speaker to compare against. But the Stage V2 is the truest recipient of this description - Subjectively, I think it might even be more acceptable than R1280DB on first impressions. Until you start playing some tracks that are more demanding and then the Stage V2 just sounds dead.

Oh and it also has less body and less bass than R1280DB. R1280DB's bass is just too madly good at this price point tho.

To Surround or not to Surround?

Quick first impression, both are decently usable and are both legit choices, although this is a description I fear have been overused too, since I've felt the same for Leviathan and also such sound effects in general. It gets even more complicated for sound effects that you can adjust the intensity of.

But what is different from the Leviathan, is the Stage V2 is a wide speaker (relatively for computer soundbars) and the drivers are placed far apart. How far apart? Well, like "the width of a 25-inch monitor" -apart. So it doesn't suffer from the "sound coming from the center" syndrome as much. It does suffer from "sound coming from the bottom" which is unavoidable for a soundbar but not as problematic.

And here is where the Surround effect comes in. Apart from making the sound sound like it is coming from a bigger speaker, it also gives the treble and the ambient a big and much-needed boost. Otherwise the speaker with the Surround effect disabled sounds constricted and dead and is certainly lacking treble and weight. On the other hand, turning on Surround effect screws with bass performance which is normal for this kind of effect.

The Surround effect works well, the speakers sound wider and further than my typical speaker positioning. It is set too strong for desktop in fact, but I can see this being useful for even bigger setups like bigger screens and TVs and you sit further away.

The problem is the bigger the surround effect you apply, the more it sacrifices the bass. And this is why I think both "on" and "off" are legitimate settings on the Stage V2 - When off, general performance is pretty ok, but it sounds like a soundbar with insufficient treble. When on, it sounds wider than it physically is and outshines even bookshelf speakers on a desktop, but the bass performance has room for improvement. Of course, the ideal speaker would perform well in both aspects, but when the speaker is not ideal it can only choose between the two. Fortunately both modes don't perform too bad in both aspects, but an option to adjust the strength of the effect would be nice because for my setup the best setting would be somewhere in-between. Personally, I think I will leave it on.

The Dialogue button and Surround button work independently, which is a bit of a surprise because surround effect screws with vocals and speech. Dialogue on makes the middle frequencies louder but I don’t feel it really improves anything else otherwise.

 

[wwenze]

2. Initial measurements

I have to say, I am very impressed with this level of performance. No, a proper speaker will do way better. However this is quite good for something that does not have a tweeter.

Because for comparison this is R1280DBs’

Of course, R1280DBs is not an ideal design speaker either, because the lack of a proper crossover results in that awful dip in the crossover region. If you pay a little more to get a proper crossover, most speakers are capable of the below.

But yea, we are talking about over $200 already. I think there are some <$200 4-inch speakers with a proper crossover tho.

Point is, Creative Stage V2’s frequency response, when compared to its competition which is R1280DBs, is pretty decent. Considering R1280DBs has a big 10dB variation in the middle.

However a bad crossover and a full-range woofer w/o tweeter both have their own problems and are not directly comparable. So here are the problems of Stage V2: The frequency swings a more number of times, and gets worse at higher frequencies. This is common on full-range speakers due to cone breakup. Also the general frequency curve is upward sloping, so you get more treble. Compare that to R1280DBs’ curve - It swings widely once, then settles down to relatively flat and at the same level as the bass. (Slightly lower, which gives a good effect.)

Anyway, the above frequency graph is for the soundbar only. That’s why it stops at 200Hz. Which is impressive for the size of the woofer. Let’s look at the close mic:

The close mic shows both the impressive and the unimpressive. The impressive is how flat they managed to make the curve for a large range of frequencies. The unimpressive part is when the woofer decided it has had enough and decided to go haywire. This, is why we use tweeters. But even then, the overall frequency response is well-controlled. There’s a bump at 300Hz which I’m not sure if it is from my table or from the soundbar cabinet itself, but it is highly audible, and is one of the first things I EQ’ed away as part of the room EQ. At least, I thought it was due to the room.

Anyway, from the table edge curve, the crossover point would be 200Hz. Which while impressive for the woofer size, is not good for performance. Because this means the woofer would play frequencies until very high up. And as a result, you can slightly hear the direction the woofer is coming from. It is often masked by music, but can be heard if the content is bassy, or with something like speech.

I measured the "satellite" cross mic multiple times just to show how much it can vary when your woofer cone is breaking up and the peaks are shooting in random directions.

So the overall sound measured at listening position is:

It doesn’t have a lot of bass although it does extend low.

Zigzags below 1kHz are mostly due to my room, zigzags above 1kHz are due to the woofer being played higher than it should but it doesn't have a choice.

 

[wwenze]

3. Vs R1280DB both stock

Although I say stock, I do have room EQ applied, mostly by ear.

BTW I’m writing this *after* having finished the optimized EQ lol. Just to give you an idea of how the two will perform if you don’t put any EQ. Well, you can think of this as the “simple EQ” or “by-ear EQ”. Or just no-EQ if your room doesn’t suck.

As is before, when I listen to the Stage V2, it sounds pretty decent. It’s only when switching from R1280DBS to the Stage V2 then I hear that the Stage V2 sounds very thin and metallic, especially when it comes to vocals.

Sound effects feel hollow and metallic. Cannon shots sound like they are spitting from a mouth instead.

4. EQ

The first two are to fix the uneven treble response. Yes, these are boosts, and boosts are usually not good because 1) You need to preamp to a lower dB first, and 2) If the lower volume at that frequency is due to some complicated root cause, boosting it will bring out the bad sound, for example in the case of R1280DBs's 2kHz. However here boosting those peaks resulted in a better overall sound.

The last one in grey is to fix a peak which I am not sure is solely due to my room or is it due to the speaker + table interaction. I need to remove this peak, maybe you also need or maybe you don't, leave it to you.

Not shown are the EQ for fixing room modes.

And finally shown here is the additional boost needed to simulate the nearfield effect of bigger speakers. Call it my "room curve" or "target curve" as this is what most bookshelf speakers measure and sound like in my setup.

The greyed-out is to remove the above nearfield boost for the subwoofer, because the subwoofer doesn't need it. Later I realized you can just adjust the subwoofer volume anyway. (More on that later.)

So the end result at listening position for R1280DBs is on top and Stage V2 is below.

Post-EQ, listening position, Top: R1280DBs, bottom: Stage V2

Worth noting is that the R1280DBs does not require additional boost of <1kHz to achieve this response. But that's what happens when you put bookshelf speakers on a table.

Spoiler

Red is R1280DBs's natural EQ, just needed something to fix the room modes.

 

[wwenze]

5. Post EQ listening

Both speakers benefitted from EQ, although Stage V2 benefitted more. It no longer sounds like something born out of compromise and is close to an actual solution. Close, but not yet. I should mention that, so is the R1280DBs.

Or put simply, before EQ, Stage V2 vs R1280DBs is in favor of R1280DBs, not a flat-out win, but R1280DBs is better in more areas with Stage V2 winning just the bass covered by the subwoofer and even then it is not in a way that is indispensable since R1280DBs has excellent bass on its own. After EQ, it becomes a close fight. Stage V2 has slight frequency response advantage (in part thanks to the subwoofer) although treble quality is still questionable, and R1280DBs still has better spatial qualities. I would still choose R1280DBs because it still sounds more natural to me, but Stage V2 feels more accurate frequency response.

With the EQ applied, Surround effect is no longer needed, which is nice.

I don't think I can stress enough how much I recommend EQ-ing Stage V2, both fixing the treble and adding the <1kHz boost.

Unfortunately EQ cannot fix the issue that you can hear where the sub is because crossover is too high at 200Hz. I actually tried removing 150Hz to 200Hz, but still could not reduce the volume enough until the sub becomes nondirectional. But such is the life of small satellites. Maybe you can think of something creative to overcome this problem.

 

[wwenze]

6. Bass and treble adjustments
Each can be independently adjusted from -5 to +5

Bass is just adjusting the volume of the subwoofer

While treble is simply adjusting the volume of the soundbar.
Why bother
...is what I wanted to say. But this does allow a bit more flexibility in adjustment. Also this means instead of -5 to +5 suboofer, you can now effective perform -10 to +10 if you need it. And trust me, you will need it. I mean, looking at the above measurements, you need +5 to get a good FR in-room. In the living room, I need +8 by ear.

I forgot if I mentioned it earlier, but Surround effect also makes the satellite louder a bit. The measurements in previous parts are with Surround effect off, because to me that sounds better after EQ.

7. Living room
Can it replace a proper HT system?

Hahahahahahahahahaha, no.

Yes, you probably don't expect it to. But because there are always people who seem to be saying that (Good job 5-star-review-culture), if I didn't have this speaker I would be wondering if that is true, so no, that isn't true. You can continue being realistic.

I mean, just look at how it fares against my Diamond 8.2. And Diamond 8.2 is known to be not a good performer for bass for its size, especially with speakers today generally performing better. But it still provides a much better FR slope than the Stage V2 at +5 bass. That's why I said you are going to need more than +5.

But, this is kind of expected. V2's subwoofer is like a 5-inch? Meanwhile each Diamond 8.2 speaker has a 6.5" woofer and there are two speakers. Compared to computer speakers, each of these bookshelves can already be a subwoofer.

And that's not all. Let me use less smoothing:

The treble of Diamond 8.2 still looks smooth even with 1/48 octave smoothing.

Granted, bookshelves plus a $50 to $100 stereo amp is going to cost more than a $150 Stage V2. Maybe you can get it for $300 if you search hard enough, and the cheapest 5-inch active speakers do sell for less than $300. Yes, relative to the Stage V2, this is a huge % increase. But compared to the price of your TV, this is really a small price to pay for a huge improvement in experience. Then add sub when you have more budget. Then AVR. Then more speakers. And the cost adds up. But for just $300 or less if you're using leftover parts, you can get a lot of improvement already.

One thing worth saying tho, while there are definitely better soundbars, like those that go below 200Hz, or have tweeters, or are bigger in width, at least at this $150 price point, and for the soundbars that I've heard, Stage V2 is pretty good value and performance, for a $150 soundbar.

So, how does it sound like
Funnily, without EQ applied, the living room actually sounds nicer than the room setup. Nicer as in more normal and less weird.

The "sound coming from center of TV" syndrome is worse definitely, considering the TV is 50-inch and the soundbar is really in the center of TV now. Surround effect is mandatory now, and even with Surround effect on, the two bookshelf speakers on each side of the TV still sound wider.

Oh yes, because Surround effect is mandatory, the frequency measurements above are taken with Surround on. So here is it on vs off:

Unexpectedly, compared to the room setup, the subwoofer direction is even more audible. I say unexpected because in the room the listening distances are shorter so the subwoofer is placed more right of me. While in the living room I have the sub placed next to the TV. Maybe the reflection behavior is different.

Sound quality, not caring about price, is... if the alternative is the TV, then this is much better in comparison. TV nowadays really suck. Take my Hisense for example.

If your choice is either Stage V2 or nothing, then Stage V2 gets you something that is ok for usage.

 

[lxXXxl]

~ reserved ~

 

[lxXXxl]

~ reserved ~

 

[lxXXxl]

No distortion?

And the 'Surround' effect is just bumping up the FR from 300hz onwards?

 

[wwenze]

No anomaly was audible w.r.t. to distortion, even tho this doesn't have a tweeter. (FWIW tho, Bose Companion 2 treble also doesn't have distortion)

I still have the raw data files so I can pull out the distortion measurements if needed.

The surround effect adds the... Well... Surround effect. Like SRS Wow, or Dolby Virtual Speakers... That kind of thing. The effect extends more than FR changes and frankly I don't even think FR measurements even make sense since phase is altered. But I just included the FR anyway because if you really have to refer to something for EQ, it is something.

 

[MoyoCase]

I had this V2 for a while in living room ( quite big) . For the money it's pretty good sounding. And the best part is its subwoofer which seems to add some impression of good sound And its subwoofer gets a bit deep to some rumble. However it's bass only comes on when u play some high quality content on it or some online content like youtube. However it lacks a bit of depth or height effect in the main sound bar although it fills the hall with sound and without the subwoofer or surround mode it sounds pretty plain


Thanks for the analysis. Will u mind doing analysis on yamaha sound bar like the c20 and b20

 

[MoyoCase]

As above......

 

[Loser]

Oh nose @wwenze moi bought it already on shipping before moi see chiur thread.

 

[wwenze]

The subwoofer looks familiar...
https://www.bomaker.com/collections/soundbar

 

[rarenick]

With least spending what should be the next step of upgrading? I don't mind bookshelf speakers without subwoofer since I don't need a lot of bass sound to thump my heart. The bass sound for me is just for completeness.


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