Did anyone try Singtel IPv6 6RD before? Any experience sharing?

wanderingkite

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I'm trying to enable IPv6 today, and I'm with Singtel broadband (based on ONT).
Google says Singtel supports IPv6 6RD but I can't do it with my Asus RT-AX86U. The config looks successfully but can't ping Google DNS IPv6.

Did anyone successfully enable it before? Would like to consult your experience if you know how to do it.

Thank you.
 

Qubicfactor

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Yes it worked for me before, but there was some noticable lag when enabled, so I decided to forgo it altogether.

sketch-1687112435926.png


This was what I set previously before I disabled it. DNS here is set to Cloudflare, can't remember what was Singtel's original DNS but not that it should matter anyway.
 

firesong

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I'm trying to enable IPv6 today, and I'm with Singtel broadband (based on ONT).
Google says Singtel supports IPv6 6RD but I can't do it with my Asus RT-AX86U. The config looks successfully but can't ping Google DNS IPv6.

Did anyone successfully enable it before? Would like to consult your experience if you know how to do it.

Thank you.
Enabled it successfully while on pfSense, so the server settings needed to be entered manually.

Digging up my old notes, they are:
Code:
## IPv6 Settings

IPv6 - Dual Stack
IPv4 Mask Length: 32 (Entire IPv4 address in the IPv6 address)
Connection type : Tunnel 6rd
DHCP Option : Disable
IPv6 Prefix : 2400:d803::0
IPv6 Prefix Length : 32
IPv4 Border Router : 202.166.127.6 ( [6rd.singnet.com.sg](http://6rd.singnet.com.sg/) )
IPv4 Router Mask Length : 0
Tunnel MTU : 1480
Tunnel TTL : 255
IPv6 DNS Server 1 : 2400:d800::1
IPv6 DNS Server 2 : 2400:d800::2
Enable Router Advertisement : Enable

Like @Qubicfactor, I don't use our local ISP's DNS servers, so Cloudflare is my DNS of choice. I prefer the anti-malware or family variants though, since there is a bit more protection for the less savvy folks at home.
1687151979460.png
 

wanderingkite

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Appreciate @firesong and @Qubicfactor for your great help!

Following your advice, I successfully enable it tonight on my Asus RT-AX86U. The feature seems quite limited, compared to a native ipv6. Not sure if it is due to Asus or it is the nature for 6rd tunneling. Possibly I will setup a dual-stack VPS for the time being, instead of setting ipv6 at home.

Anyway, thank you for your help. :)
 

firesong

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Appreciate @firesong and @Qubicfactor for your great help!

Following your advice, I successfully enable it tonight on my Asus RT-AX86U. The feature seems quite limited, compared to a native ipv6. Not sure if it is due to Asus or it is the nature for 6rd tunneling. Possibly I will setup a dual-stack VPS for the time being, instead of setting ipv6 at home.

Anyway, thank you for your help. :)
From my experience, while limited, it did improve the performance of the network quite noticeably. It's not quite dual stack, but the moments when IPv6 went down were noticed by family members.
 

wanderingkite

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From my experience, while limited, it did improve the performance of the network quite noticeably. It's not quite dual stack, but the moments when IPv6 went down were noticed by family members.
Thank you @firesong . Guess I need to spend some more time over this weekend to investigate more ;)
 

xiaofan

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Thank you @firesong . Guess I need to spend some more time over this weekend to investigate more ;)

To me Singtel IPv6 is useless so I have disabled it.

I have played with setting up Singtel IPv6 6rd with Asus router, Singtel Mesh Router, OpenWRT and pfSense. And the performance is always worst than just using Singtel IPv4. But I did not do much tests, just compare ping to IPv4 and IPv6 servers.

Previous discussion here:
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/no-more-ipv6-in-singtel-home-1g-fibre-broadband.6006714/
 

Singtel

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I'm trying to enable IPv6 today, and I'm with Singtel broadband (based on ONT).
Google says Singtel supports IPv6 6RD but I can't do it with my Asus RT-AX86U. The config looks successfully but can't ping Google DNS IPv6.

Did anyone successfully enable it before? Would like to consult your experience if you know how to do it.

Thank you.
Hi @wanderingkite, we understand that you wish to enable IPv6 on your ONT set-up. However, I’m afraid that IPv6 is not supported as you’re currently using a 3rd party router.
 

firesong

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Hi @wanderingkite, we understand that you wish to enable IPv6 on your ONT set-up. However, I’m afraid that IPv6 is not supported as you’re currently using a 3rd party router.
This is a scripted response.

It's already been tested and proven by many users here with their own 3rd party routers/firewalls, that IPv6 works fine, as long as the router software supports specifying the parameters given above. There are routers that do not allow that level of granular control, but that reflects more on the router's inability and not Singtel not supporting IPv6.

Clearly denying what has been proven is only sending a message of distrust in the brand, that the CSOs are not informed nor do they know their product. Am not sure if this is your intention, but it sure happens too often.
 

wanderingkite

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Hi @wanderingkite, we understand that you wish to enable IPv6 on your ONT set-up. However, I’m afraid that IPv6 is not supported as you’re currently using a 3rd party router.
Hi @Singtel , my ASUS RT-AX86U is actually from Singtel 1Gbps Pro Gamer Bundle (it is part of Singtel contract/offering), so I am so surprised to see your comment and totally can't accept it. I check Singtel website and find Singtel is still promoting RT-AX86U in your "Fibre Pro Gamer Bundle" until today, I guess you might forget to check.

According to your comment, please do not sell a contract which you do not honor and can not support, as this is unethical.

My post was just trying to get some technical advice and didn't complain anything about Singtel... Now I am disappointed and complaining, sorry. :(
 

firesong

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Hi @Singtel , my ASUS RT-AX86U is actually from Singtel 1Gbps Pro Gamer Bundle (it is part of Singtel contract/offering), so I am so surprised to see your comment and totally can't accept it. I check Singtel website and find Singtel is still promoting RT-AX86U in your "Fibre Pro Gamer Bundle" until today, I guess you might forget to check.

According to your comment, please do not sell a contract which you do not honor and can not support, as this is unethical.

My post was just trying to get some technical advice and didn't complain anything about Singtel... Now I am disappointed and complaining, sorry. :(
To be fair, this agent who posted might not be Singaporean or in Singapore. I know they have outsourced their call centre and help operations, and I have spoken to Malaysians on the phone who do not know what is happening. In another thread, even while I was at the Singtel Shop re-contracting for my parents the previous year, I was directed to a booth to do a video call, which to me is nonsense - especially when the staff in the centre were quite free then and not really engaged in any customer facing task. However, it is their job, so they are required to follow instructions. My dad was so put off that we travelled all the way to the shop, only to go to some tiny booth to do a video call. when we can easily video call from home, that he insisted we ported out from Singtel. Because this is not customer service at all - it is literally making the customer go the extra mile to subscribe to a service, which is nonsense.

I don't envy them, and I can be a bit hard on them because of this blatant disregard for knowing their job, their product, their work. But to clarify, it is not personal to the outsource operator, but rather reflects on the company Singtel as a whole, since they don't appear to know their products, their offerings, and refuse to accept anything but only parrot their scripted replies.

As an aside, I'd bet the staff would get into trouble for nothing - it's not really their fault if they didn't know that Singtel had a Gamer bundle and bundled Asus routers, because the clear impression of the Singtel Broadband brand name is that Singtel = no 3rd party router. No more bridging requests entertained, etc...
 

loganrunning

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To be fair, this agent who posted might not be Singaporean or in Singapore. I know they have outsourced their call centre and help operations, and I have spoken to Malaysians on the phone who do not know what is happening. In another thread, even while I was at the Singtel Shop re-contracting for my parents the previous year, I was directed to a booth to do a video call, which to me is nonsense - especially when the staff in the centre were quite free then and not really engaged in any customer facing task. However, it is their job, so they are required to follow instructions. My dad was so put off that we travelled all the way to the shop, only to go to some tiny booth to do a video call. when we can easily video call from home, that he insisted we ported out from Singtel. Because this is not customer service at all - it is literally making the customer go the extra mile to subscribe to a service, which is nonsense.

I don't envy them, and I can be a bit hard on them because of this blatant disregard for knowing their job, their product, their work. But to clarify, it is not personal to the outsource operator, but rather reflects on the company Singtel as a whole, since they don't appear to know their products, their offerings, and refuse to accept anything but only parrot their scripted replies.

As an aside, I'd bet the staff would get into trouble for nothing - it's not really their fault if they didn't know that Singtel had a Gamer bundle and bundled Asus routers, because the clear impression of the Singtel Broadband brand name is that Singtel = no 3rd party router. No more bridging requests entertained, etc...

yes, i know one of the team leads who used to work in the malacca call centre. He's left already.

all they had were scripted replies.
they also had KPIs like time to "resolution" and duration of calls.

as an ex-singtel subscriber, i disagreed on their definition of "problem resolution"



I experienced the video call in a booth, after a while, it was clear that there would be no resolution. I was being blocked at every turn. standard answer of "no, we don't/can't do that". i suspect that if i had given up and acquiesced, it would have been considered "case closed, problem resolved"

I escalated the issue to one of the on-site staff, and eventually got it resolved. even their staff admitted that the issue was really simple and that the remote staff was just being difficult. The issue was resolved within 5 minutes.
 

xiaofan

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Basically my experiences can be summarized into one sentence.

As a Singtel ONT user, once I DO NOT USE-Singtel-issued routers (from Arcadyan/Askey/Airtiees/Aztech, or the earlier 2-Wire and Pace), it is actually very STABLE.

So I do not really need technical support other than equipment replacement (which Singtel is pretty good in this aspect). As for recontract experiences mostly it is positive.

I believe this should mostly apply for Singtel 1+1 Gamer Bundle plan users who are using Asus RT-AX86U as well, since it is the only plan with the Singtel officially bridged.

For those who are using the Singtel ONR (not bridged), there may be some stability issues with Singtel ONR especically if you have more devices. And its feature is really limited. So I recommend new users not to go with Singtel because of ONR.

And in case you need real technical support, then indeed the reports here show lack of training for the Singtel technical support staff (either remote or local staff). So it depends on your luch. Sometimes you get good support when the support staff knows the issue and sometimes you get scripted reply which does not help.

That being said, I believe this (lack of technical expertise for real technical issues) is a common problem among all ISPs (Starhub and M1 included).
 
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xiaofan

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BTW, as per previous report from bert64, for Singtel ONR users, even with a bridged ONR (I think he was using the normal Singtel 1Gbps plan along with M1 1Gbps plan), it is not easy to set up IPv6 as you needed to get Singtel support (backend work) to enable IPv6.

So it is interesting to know that this does not apply for Singtel 1+1 Gamer Bundle plan where you can easily enable IPv6 on the RT-AX86U (which is connected to the bridged ONR Port).
 

TanKianW

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Not speaking up for ISP’s CSO, but presenting another side of the story which might have caused the issues:​
  • Training a CSO takes time​
  • Being a CSO is not a great job. Personally, i think it is a sh*t job. Imagine the “all customers are always right and deserve the best” in Singapore context​
  • CS is a manpower intensive cost centre​
  • Staff retention is not easy in CS department. I have seen and interviewed quite a few, esp the young gen ones​
  • Those who are well verse, well trained in networking will not stay for long. Why stay? When you earn/learn more in other more technical networking role or even be a sysadmin for a large organisation or data-centre? You can even be a system architect that help powers the world of networking. Though only a selected few reach that level. Even for some up there are just smoke king who relied on consultant/solution provider​
  • There are so many system for you to learn out there, not just mainly “Huawei” or “Alcatel” backend equipment (just naming a few). And ISP equipment and network designs are one of the most boring out there, at least to me​
  • CS job is like a “first job” for most IT networking people and quite a good place to start, also meaning not the best place to stay​
  • Outsourced CSO mostly are not experienced and hands-on with the ISP equipment so the knowledge gap will be there. If it takes a while for someone who understand the IT system to trouble-shoot, it will definitely not going to be easy for someone reading from a script to understand your IT system, or answering to queries that is not even managed by them​
  • Most CS jobs are “KPI” orientated including their reward scheme. These KPIs are really gruelling and ruthless. No point going that extra mile. Sometimes you need to sacrifice some customers for “more easily satisfied” customers. Actually most experienced CSO can sense who are the “tough and demanding” customers they going to give up or refer to technical department​
  • A lot did not know that most ISPs are operating in an ancient manner. Equipment upgrade and refresh is not going to be cheap. And most are slowly losing money. Reason why the competition has stagnate. I presume downtime is also directly related to this at times (from what I learnt from the industry). So i will avoid putting all eggs in a basket when hosting mission critical or production servers/services.​
 
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firesong

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Not speaking up for ISP’s CSO, but presenting another side of the story which might have caused the issues:​
  • Training a CSO takes time​
  • Being a CSO is not a great job. Personally, i think it is a sh*t job. Imagine the “all customers are always right and deserve the best” in Singapore context​
  • CS is a manpower intensive cost centre​
  • Staff retention is not easy in CS department. I have seen and interviewed quite a few, esp the young gen ones​
  • Those who are well verse, well trained in networking will not stay for long. Why stay? When you earn/learn more in other more technical networking role or even be a sysadmin for a large organisation or data-centre? You can even be a system architect that help powers the world of networking. Though only a selected few reach that level. Even for some up there are just smoke king who relied on consultant/solution provider​
  • There are so many system for you to learn out there, not just mainly “Huawei” or “Alcatel” backend equipment (just naming a few). And ISP equipment and network designs are one of the most boring out there, at least to me​
  • CS job is like a “first job” for most IT networking people and quite a good place to start, also meaning not the best place to stay​
  • Outsourced CSO mostly are not experienced and hands-on with the ISP equipment so the knowledge gap will be there. If it takes a while for someone who understand the IT system to trouble-shoot, it will definitely not going to be easy for someone reading from a script to understand your IT system, or answering to queries that is not even managed by them​
  • Most CS jobs are “KPI” orientated including their reward scheme. These KPIs are really gruelling and ruthless. No point going that extra mile. Sometimes you need to sacrifice some customers for “more easily satisfied” customers. Actually most experienced CSO can sense who are the “tough and demanding” customers they going to give up or refer to technical department​
  • A lot did not know that most ISPs are operating in an ancient manner. Equipment upgrade and refresh is not going to be cheap. And most are slowly losing money. Reason why the competition has stagnate. I presume downtime is also directly related to this at times (from what I learnt from the industry). So i will avoid putting all eggs in a basket when hosting mission critical or production servers/services.​
Yeah, I know these parts. Did a short stint in a call centre many many years ago when starting out, so I understand more than people think about the operational constraints. although KPIs then were less cutthroat. Cost is the primary reason why Singaporean companies outsource this to Malaysia, India, China, Vietnam, and the Philippines.

But I also remember a senior who really knew his stuff. And when he took calls, he was able to satisfy the customers. However, back then knowledge wasn't forcibly scripted, so CS had some latitude. If you got a person who knew their things and had a proper phone manner who was able to manage even the irate customers, it was great for everyone. This senior eventually left and went to one of the bigger IT names (that I won't mention). No prizes for guessing, but early on we considered him a Genius. ;)
 

TanKianW

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Yeah, I know these parts. Did a short stint in a call centre many many years ago when starting out, so I understand more than people think about the operational constraints. although KPIs then were less cutthroat. Cost is the primary reason why Singaporean companies outsource this to Malaysia, India, China, Vietnam, and the Philippines.

But I also remember a senior who really knew his stuff. And when he took calls, he was able to satisfy the customers. However, back then knowledge wasn't forcibly scripted, so CS had some latitude. If you got a person who knew their things and had a proper phone manner who was able to manage even the irate customers, it was great for everyone. This senior eventually left and went to one of the bigger IT names (that I won't mention). No prizes for guessing, but early on we considered him a Genius. ;)

If consider Genius and know their stuff, all the more won’t stay. :LOL:

I consider myself “IT路人甲” also will not do CS job liao. :ROFLMAO:
 

bert64

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BTW, as per previous report from bert64, for Singtel ONR users, even with a bridged ONR (I think he was using the normal Singtel 1Gbps plan along with M1 1Gbps plan), it is not easy to set up IPv6 as you needed to get Singtel support (backend work) to enable IPv6.

So it is interesting to know that this does not apply for Singtel 1+1 Gamer Bundle plan where you can easily enable IPv6 on the RT-AX86U (which is connected to the bridged ONR Port).
If you have ONR they will enable 6RD on request (you may have to be persistent as they will try to talk you out of this), several people have done this. After many complaints they seem to have improved the training for their support staff, as i'm aware of some people who requested it recently without any problems. The performance is poor because the Huawei ONR does not have a hardware forwarding path for tunnel traffic. In China they have native IPv6 and tunnels were a thing 20 years ago when you might have a 2mbps adsl line so performance of tunnels was likely never considered.

If you have a bridged ONR/ONT you need a router which supports 6rd, not all do because it's a legacy transition technology and shouldn't really be used today, and you may have the same performance issue as the ONR. That said, if your equipment does support it you can configure it yourself using the settings posted by firesong.

Your other option is using a free ipv6 tunnel from hurricane electric (he.net). They have a local tunnel server but singtel don't peer with them and the traffic gets routed to hong kong and back making it slow. All the other isps do peer with them locally so the tunnel is fairly quick with every other provider.

By way of comparison, starhub have native ipv6 on fibre and only used 6rd for their old cable network, which has since been shut down. M1 have native ipv6 on fibre and mobile and even support ipv6-only operation with access to legacy resources using NAT64/DNS64.

If you go to countries like Malaysia or India, you will find IPv6 is enabled by default by all the major providers.
 

bert64

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Not speaking up for ISP’s CSO, but presenting another side of the story which might have caused the issues:​
  • Training a CSO takes time​
  • Being a CSO is not a great job. Personally, i think it is a sh*t job. Imagine the “all customers are always right and deserve the best” in Singapore context​
  • CS is a manpower intensive cost centre​
  • Staff retention is not easy in CS department. I have seen and interviewed quite a few, esp the young gen ones​
  • Those who are well verse, well trained in networking will not stay for long. Why stay? When you earn/learn more in other more technical networking role or even be a sysadmin for a large organisation or data-centre? You can even be a system architect that help powers the world of networking. Though only a selected few reach that level. Even for some up there are just smoke king who relied on consultant/solution provider​
  • There are so many system for you to learn out there, not just mainly “Huawei” or “Alcatel” backend equipment (just naming a few). And ISP equipment and network designs are one of the most boring out there, at least to me​
  • CS job is like a “first job” for most IT networking people and quite a good place to start, also meaning not the best place to stay​
  • Outsourced CSO mostly are not experienced and hands-on with the ISP equipment so the knowledge gap will be there. If it takes a while for someone who understand the IT system to trouble-shoot, it will definitely not going to be easy for someone reading from a script to understand your IT system, or answering to queries that is not even managed by them​
  • Most CS jobs are “KPI” orientated including their reward scheme. These KPIs are really gruelling and ruthless. No point going that extra mile. Sometimes you need to sacrifice some customers for “more easily satisfied” customers. Actually most experienced CSO can sense who are the “tough and demanding” customers they going to give up or refer to technical department​
  • A lot did not know that most ISPs are operating in an ancient manner. Equipment upgrade and refresh is not going to be cheap. And most are slowly losing money. Reason why the competition has stagnate. I presume downtime is also directly related to this at times (from what I learnt from the industry). So i will avoid putting all eggs in a basket when hosting mission critical or production servers/services.​
Problem is partly the size of the market, and partly the barrier of entry to anyone looking to start a new provider.
The cost of legacy IP and the cost of dealing with shortages thereof (ie CGNAT) is a big deterrent to anyone looking to enter the market too. The incumbent providers know this, and this is partly why they intentionally delay widespread deployment of IPv6.

In other countries like the US, UK and NL there are a lot more providers some of which explicitly cater to technical users. There the people you speak to are generally fairly competent and assume that the customer is too. They won't go through a generic script, but will assume that you've already completed standard troubleshooting steps yourself and have a genuine problem. They will also openly tell you if the problem is at their end, so you don't waste your time.
 
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