do we really need accident plan for babies?

[nahbehism]

hi.. just wanna check if any parents bought accident cum critical illness plan for their babies. Is there really a need to buy? if you bought it, why?

 

[TiedInsurer]

hi.. just wanna check if any parents bought accident cum critical illness plan for their babies. Is there really a need to buy? if you bought it, why?

MY insurance agent says need to buy, because my insurance agent wants a holiday in Europe.

But seriously speaking, purpose of insurance is the protect the living standards of any surviving members of the household. In this case, baby not a breadwinner, so no need to insure baby to ensure steady income stream from salary. But you do need to insure, for possible huge costs incurred on baby, in case of an unfortunate event. Basically, if die still okay, but if never die and need lots of money for treatment, you're ****ed. If come out hospital permanently disabled and need to hire a caretaker for life, you're ****ed.

Anyway, quoting from experience, I think for babies, most important is a good hospitalisation plan. But even then, be really careful of what you bought. An associate of mine, baby kena some kind of critical illness at 3mths+. They bought hospitalisation insurance at birth, so they thought "Heng ah, at least no need go bankrupt". But the insurer has other plans. Turns out have something called a congenital waiting period. For babies, insurers won't pay out for certain conditions, even if the condition is not pre-existing and was only discovered several months after you buy the plan. My associate got into debt, no thanks to the insurer. The baby died anyway a year later.

I'm not sure if CI also have such congenital waiting period crap. You should check before you buy, but personally i feel not necessary, since CI is mostly for covering loss of income.

For accident, i wouldn't bother. But i would buy a good term life with permanent disability rider.

 

[BBCWatcher]

hi.. just wanna check if any parents bought accident cum critical illness plan for their babies. Is there really a need to buy? if you bought it, why?

Do you have a specific plan in mind so we can take a look?

But you do need to insure, for possible huge costs incurred on baby, in case of an unfortunate event. Basically, if die still okay, but if never die and need lots of money for treatment, you're ****ed. If come out hospital permanently disabled and need to hire a caretaker for life, you're ****ed.

Those would be tough situations, but if the child is a Singaporean citizen or Permanent Resident then there is some recently better news: CareShield Life will take a severely disabled child on board from age 30 and for life.

An associate of mine, baby kena some kind of critical illness at 3mths+. They bought hospitalisation insurance at birth, so they thought "Heng ah, at least no need go bankrupt". But the insurer has other plans. Turns out have something called a congenital waiting period. For babies, insurers won't pay out for certain conditions, even if the condition is not pre-existing and was only discovered several months after you buy the plan. My associate got into debt, no thanks to the insurer. The baby died anyway a year later.

For Singaporean citizen and PR children there's still MediShield Life, but its coverage is only decent specifically for citizens in B2 or C ward at a public hospital (at KK Hospital presumably). MediShield Life is quite weak for PRs, in other ward classes, in private hospitals, or as private rate patients (didn't get a polyclinic referral or admission from A&E).

 

[eyching]

Erm.. life plan and hospitalisation plan..

Traditional life plan generate value, so if 20 years later the father cant make it, boy and gal can surrender the policy get a lump sum for further study or do whatever they want to do. Else just keep the policy and futher enhance with nsurance plan at their time.

Hospitalisation plan, well, no need to explain gua

 

[zzzzzz87]

Accident plan can cover hfmd, food poisoning, dengue etc. If baby goes to infant care, good to get. I got mine under sompo and it covers my children too.

Critical illness plan I only got it for my baby together with my pregnancy insurance as it will cover from birth (day 0). After birth, I didn’t get more. Although I did consider if I should get multipay plans, I still hesitate due to the high cost.

 

[boredboiboi]

Accident plan can cover hfmd, food poisoning, dengue etc. If baby goes to infant care, good to get. I got mine under sompo and it covers my children too.

Critical illness plan I only got it for my baby together with my pregnancy insurance as it will cover from birth (day 0). After birth, I didn’t get more. Although I did consider if I should get multipay plans, I still hesitate due to the high cost.

Yes you are right, all those mentioned will be covered by accident plan and not hospital plan. Multipay i would say last option. =)

 

[JuniorLion]

Accident plan can cover hfmd, food poisoning, dengue etc. If baby goes to infant care, good to get. I got mine under sompo and it covers my children too.

Critical illness plan I only got it for my baby together with my pregnancy insurance as it will cover from birth (day 0). After birth, I didn’t get more. Although I did consider if I should get multipay plans, I still hesitate due to the high cost.

Can some IFA here share what are the diseases that accident plan cover? Apart from HFMD, food poisoning, dengue?

 

[boredboiboi]

Can some IFA here share what are the diseases that accident plan cover? Apart from HFMD, food poisoning, dengue?

Examples

1. Aviani􏰀flue􏰀zaor􏰁birdflu􏰂duetoinfluenzaAviral strains H5N1, H9N2 or H7N7
2. Hand,footandmouthdisease(HFMD)
3. Measles
4. Middle east respiratory syndrome coronavirus (MERS-CoV)
5. Mumps
6. Nipahviralencephalitis
7. Rabies
8. Rubella
9. Severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS)
10.Anthrax infection
11.Legio􏰀􏰀aires􏰂 disease
12. Melioidosis
13. Plague
14. Pulmonary tuberculosis
15. Chikungunyafever
16. DenguefeverandDenguehaemorrhagicfever
17. Japaneseviralencephalitis
18. Malaria
19. Yellowfever
20. Zikavirus
21. Variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (vCJD) or 􏰁mad cow disease􏰂

 

[nahbehism]

Accident plan can cover hfmd, food poisoning, dengue etc. If baby goes to infant care, good to get. I got mine under sompo and it covers my children too.

Critical illness plan I only got it for my baby together with my pregnancy insurance as it will cover from birth (day 0). After birth, I didn’t get more. Although I did consider if I should get multipay plans, I still hesitate due to the high cost.

I m looking at AIA, great eastern and sompo. All about the same. Its with accident and some coverage for children CO and diseases like hfmd...
Honestly speaking..its not expensive but i just not convinced that its necessary...

 

[BBCWatcher]

Accident plan can cover hfmd, food poisoning, dengue etc....

Yes you are right, all those mentioned will be covered by accident plan and not hospital plan.

Why wouldn't a hospitalization plan (Integrated Shield plan) cover HFMD, food poisoning, dengue, or (random example: ) leukemia? If there's a hospitalization involved with any of them, or all of them, and as long as they're not preexisting (or within a congenital abnormalities waiting period), the medical expenses are covered, including related care within the pre-/post-hospitalization window.

An "accident plan" doesn't cover (same random example: ) leukemia.

 

[boredboiboi]

Why wouldn't a hospitalization plan (Integrated Shield plan) cover HFMD, food poisoning, dengue, or (random example: ) leukemia? If there's a hospitalization involved with any of them, or all of them, and as long as they're not preexisting (or within a congenital abnormalities waiting period), the medical expenses are covered, including related care within the pre-/post-hospitalization window.

An "accident plan" doesn't cover (same random example: ) leukemia.

Yes as u mentioned provided its hospitalized. What if is not? It will be covered by accident plan, and accident plan is as cheap as less than $100 a year.

 

[BBCWatcher]

Yes as u mentioned provided its hospitalized. What if is not?

Yes, what if? If there's no hospitalization then it's most probably not a serious medical issue and thus there aren't any big medical bills. Where's the (a) big loss (b) that a money payout would solve (or at least make much better) (c) that a typical household could not reasonably handle on its own?

 

[boredboiboi]

Yes, what if? If there's no hospitalization then it's most probably not a serious medical issue and thus there aren't any big medical bills. Where's the (a) big loss (b) that a money payout would solve (or at least make much better) (c) that a typical household could not reasonably handle on its own?

Arent big medical bill doesnt mean no bill. Isnt insurance suppose to covers all the if? If u can handle all the bills, by all means dont get it. Every plans got its purpose.

 

[BBCWatcher]

Arent big medical bill doesnt mean no bill.

Correct, but we don’t need and shouldn’t buy “insurance” for a $10 risk.

Isnt insurance suppose to covers all the if? If u can handle all the bills, by all means dont get it. Every plans got its purpose.

Well yes, exactly. Except your last sentence, unless by “purpose” you mean “a lottery ticket that serves no useful insurance purpose for policyholders but that enriches insurance companies and their agents.”

I’ll repeat the threshold question to decide whether you even need a purported insurance product:

Where's the (a) big loss (b) that a money payout would solve (or at least make much better) (c) that a typical household could not reasonably handle on its own?

If you cannot answer this question with a clear “Why yes, here’s the (a), (b), and (c),” then you simply don’t need the policy.

 

[zzzzzz87]

I agree that accident plan may not be important if you feel that your cash flow can handle these unexpected incidents (without hospitalisation) well.

I used to buy then stop buying accident plan until I got into a major surgery and I had a few cases of sprained ankles (not linked to the surgery) which I had to keep seeing tcm for it.

I like that my plan allows me to claim from tcm.

For children, I did not buy a separate plan for them since they can be tagged to my plan which is considered free.

I foresee more sprains and fractures coming when they are growing up and sometimes going to a western doctor may not be what you want since you may want to visit tcm or chiropractor.

 

[BBCWatcher]

I like that my plan allows me to claim from tcm.

For children, I did not buy a separate plan for them since they can be tagged to my plan which is considered free.

I foresee more sprains and fractures coming when they are growing up and sometimes going to a western doctor may not be what you want since you may want to visit tcm or chiropractor.

OK, but....

(a) How much does TCM cost? Is that a big loss (expense) that a typical household could not reasonably handle on its own?

(b) Some Integrated Shield plan riders already cover TCM. (AXA, for example.)

 

[zzzzzz87]

OK, but....

(a) How much does TCM cost? Is that a big loss (expense) that a typical household could not reasonably handle on its own?

(b) Some Integrated Shield plan riders already cover TCM. (AXA, for example.)

a) for me, for a sprain, i usually claim 3-4 times. includes acupuncture too. about $50 each time.

b) upon checking, the TCM needs to be referred by hospital then can be claimable through the integrated shield plan. correct me if i'm wrong?

 

[BBCWatcher]

a) for me, for a sprain, i usually claim 3-4 times. includes acupuncture too. about $50 each time.

OK, so let's suppose a child has 3 sprains over the course of 20 years when treatment is merited, and let's pick the high number of TCM treatments: 4. That's 12 TCM treatments for a total expense of $600 over 20 years. Boredboiboi will happily sell you an "accident plan" that costs "less than $100 per year" -- let's assume $90. So over 20 years you'll pay $1,800 in insurance premiums, claim $600 (maybe, but let's assume every dollar of TCM is claimable), while Boredboiboi and the insurer keep $1,200....

You can do this if you want, but why? And actually the $1,800 is even worse than it seems because you could simply put the $90/year into a Child Development Account, earn 2%/year interest (eventually 2.5% when the child is older), and use it for educational expenses. For example. You earn no interest on a premium payment.

Remember, the insurance company and its agent -- Boredboiboi, for example -- MUST win this lottery ticket on average. The insurance company must cover its costs, which include Boredboiboi's commission, and generate a reasonable profit for its shareholders, often paid as dividends. If $200 in TCM costs (4 treatments for a sprain) is going to constitute a family crisis, OK, that's a problem. But it's not a problem an insurance company is best equipped to solve. Increasing your savings, placing those savings in prudent vehicles, and building up your emergency reserve is a much better solution to $200 problems.

I'm certainly not opposed to insurance! Or to Boredboiboi getting paid a commission, for that matter. I am opposed to buying lottery tickets, meaning that it's just not a financially sensible thing to do. Insurance companies are valuable when they solve BIG risk problems. More on that in a moment.

b) oh really? AXA covers TCM outpatient? i will read more about it since my child is on AXA now.

AXA's Integrated Shield rider does, yes. I don't think it's the only one -- I just picked that example. Check the policy details, of course.

I want to come back to what I think is a particularly insightful post, from TiedInsurer:

But seriously speaking, purpose of insurance is the protect the living standards of any surviving members of the household. In this case, baby not a breadwinner, so no need to insure baby to ensure steady income stream from salary. But you do need to insure, for possible huge costs incurred on baby, in case of an unfortunate event. Basically, if die still okay, but if never die and need lots of money for treatment, you're ****ed. If come out hospital permanently disabled and need to hire a caretaker for life, you're ****ed.

Yes, there they are: the BIG risks that your household cannot reasonably cope with on its own that a money payout would help make better. The "we're genuinely ****ed" risks, which is a good way to put it.

OK, so for the first big risk, even a basic Integrated Shield plan (public hospital B1 ward) works rather well, optionally with a rider -- and I think there's a reasonable argument for buying the rider. You can sign a newborn up for an Integrated Shield plan at age 15 days. This coverage protects against big bills for acute medical care which involves hospital care, including day surgery, and related care within the plan's pre-/post-hospitalization coverage window. Exactly which plan is "best" varies.

What about the second broad scenario: a child with special needs who requires a lifetime of care? Unfortunately the private insurance industry in Singapore doesn't offer great answers. I'll keep looking, but does anyone have useful suggestions to mitigate this second class of risks?