Foreigner moving from EP to DP

[sohguanh]

Ya, I don’t think gov would revoke your PR unless you violate the law. But renewal is different. You can always sponsor your spouse PR if really cannot renew after REP expires.

My spouse a lot of backbone never ask me sponsor. Apply on her own and get it on first try and that include SC even! That is why nowadays argue I cannot use this issue to talk but I can use others like her Msia Uni is basically use monies buy lar but she say no leh so ding dong ding dong lor

 

[CrashWire]

Ya, I don’t think gov would revoke your PR unless you violate the law. But renewal is different. You can always sponsor your spouse PR if really cannot renew after REP expires.

Sponsor doesn't mean confirm will get back, especially after PR "expired" the first time.

The government also has the discretion to terminate Singapore citizenship if it was fraudulently obtained.

Also, if a naturalised citizen commits a serious enough offence of some sort, like this footballer:

https://www.straitstimes.com/politi...fixer-will-not-be-deprived-of-citizenship-mha

 

[vegavega25]

As an aside, accumulating a big pile of low yielding Singapore dollar denominated bonds is a fairly odd thing for an EP or DP holder to do. An EP or DP holder has no durable right of abode in Singapore, so saving/investing necessarily should be geared to being booted out of Singapore rather quickly. And certainly retirement elsewhere. But such odd choices are available, and they can be kept.

What I gathered over the weekend:

-- Substantial savings from SG income over time and wanted to be invest in the currency they use on a usual basis, i.e. SGD, instead of remitting it elsewhere.
-- They prefer fixed income assets over equity for such savings.
-- Singapore Savings Bonds are reasonably liquid, subject to 5-weeks' redemption period.
-- The couple expects to retain a bank account or two even if they have to both leave the country, and have ways of eventually remitting the money from their bank account to themselves abroad.
-- Don't have a need to liquidate fixed income assets in Singapore the moment they need to leave.

 

[BBCWatcher]

What I gathered over the weekend:
-- Substantial savings from SG income over time and wanted to be invest in the currency they use on a usual basis, i.e. SGD, instead of remitting it elsewhere.

It's not a question of remittance. It's a question of future spending, notably retirement. Sure, some future spending may be in Singapore, in Singapore dollars. Not most of it.

-- They prefer fixed income assets over equity for such savings.

That's available. CRPA, IGIL, and many other choices.

-- Singapore Savings Bonds are reasonably liquid, subject to 5-weeks' redemption period.

They are, but those are Singapore dollars. You have to convert them to buy hospital stays in Paris, pizza in Detroit, or a home in Cairns, as examples. And you may or may not like the exchange rate when that time comes. It's a gamble.

-- The couple expects to retain a bank account or two even if they have to both leave the country, and have ways of eventually remitting the money from their bank account to themselves abroad.

Yes, of course. Nobody's taking any money away. (But read on....)

-- Don't have a need to liquidate fixed income assets in Singapore the moment they need to leave.

Yes, of course. But what an odd thing to do, to bet your future lifestyle on one currency that isn't the currency you're going to spend.

Imagine a Singaporean working in Paris for 5 years, planning to retire in a nice HDB flat in Yishun. And sure, this Singaporean earns euro while working in Paris. And sure, it's fine to have a pile of euro so you can buy groceries and train tickets and shoes and even a big TV while you're in Paris. Some number of euro is fine for all that. But beyond that? You're retiring in Singapore! What are you doing piling up euro in predictably low yielding bond funds? That's fairly risky, actually, because you're holding low yielding assets mostly or entirely in the wrong currency for your future needs. Why aren't you euro cost averaging into the long-term savings you'll actually need?

To each their own, of course. But it's not my favorite financial idea ever. And I should point out that at one point in my life I piled up too much savings in the wrong currency — and in a near zero interest bank account, which is even worse. Fortunately I escaped that awkward position without too much damage, but I wasn't as heavily skewed into the wrong currency as this couple seems to be.

I'll toss out one possibility: this couple is planning to evade taxes in the future by leaving assets in Singapore that they won't declare to the tax authorities in their home country. Hopefully not, and I'm not assuming they are or accusing them of such. But it would be one logical explanation for fairly odd financial behavior — unfortunately it's been known to happen. That'd be a dangerous game, of course, and definitely not recommended.

Another possibility is that their home country's currency is crap, with no reasonable bond investment market. But that'd imply a fund such as CRPA (i.e. a multi-currency bond index fund) should form part of their long-term portfolio, not exclusively Singapore dollar-denominated bonds.

 

[vegavega25]

It's not a question of remittance. It's a question of future spending, notably retirement. Sure, some future spending may be in Singapore, in Singapore dollars. Not most of it.

They are, but those are Singapore dollars. You have to convert them to buy hospital stays in Paris, pizza in Detroit, or a home in Cairns, as examples. And you may or may not like the exchange rate when that time comes. It's a gamble.

Oddly, all of this suggests that most Singapore dollars that a foreigner earns and saves are intended to be kept for retirement or should be kept in the foreigner's own currency. Why can't a 6-/12-/18-/24-month fund be saved at reasonably decent fixed interest rates in Singapore if available? What if the foreigner doesn't know where he/she will end up for *retirement* and wants to have the money in the same country? The dichotomy between a wrong and right currency is false, in my view. Nothing against you personally, but most people have better things to do with their time than open accounts and then track assets and manage cost-averaging investments around the world.

 

[BBCWatcher]

Oddly, all of this suggests that most Singapore dollars that a foreigner earns and saves are intended to be kept for retirement or should be kept in the foreigner's own currency.

No, not necessarily. It just means NOT mostly Singapore dollars. A foreigner has high confidence their future spending will NOT be in Singapore dollars, except for foreigners retiring in Brunei. That’s the narrow point I’m highlighting.

Why can't a 6-/12-/18-/24-month fund be saved at reasonably decent fixed interest rates in Singapore if available?

If the foreigner has planned major spending in Singapore (or Brunei) in 6/12/18/24 months, that’d be a reasonable thing to do. Otherwise, no.

What if the foreigner doesn't know where he/she will end up for *retirement* and wants to have the money in the same country?

The foreigner presumably has high confidence it will NOT be Singapore (or Brunei), if he/she is reality-based. (There are a few exceptions.) But if the foreigner is uncertain about which future country will be involved, no problem! Low cost stock and multi-currency bond index funds are available.

The dichotomy between a wrong and right currency is false, in my view. Nothing against you personally, but most people have better things to do with their time than open accounts and then track assets and manage cost-averaging investments around the world.

That’s a strawman. It’s not at all complicated to invest in one or a couple low cost index funds that are appropriate. The person referenced upthread is probably allocating more time and effort saving with the wrong vehicles for his/her actual future needs.

It’s exactly the same situation for a Singaporean, planning to retire in Singapore, who goes overseas for a stint working in Paris, France. Would/should that Singaporean pile up euro bonds, euro fixed deposits, and euro endowment plans to the rafters? Of course not. That doesn’t make any sense. Sure, keep some euro around to pay for baguettes, rent, and cheese (as examples) while living in France for 5 years. But when there’s no reasonable expectation of staying in the Eurozone for a long time (like retirement), don’t hold too many euro. Get ready for your actual future.