GE Pay Assure

mSnooze

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my financial planner was sharing w me this product, anyone has it? beneficial for you if income ard 7-8k/month? pros/cons?

https://www.greateasternlife.com/sg...d-my-family/health-protection/pay-assure.html

This is the disability income plan that many have been advocating in this forum.
This plan helps to pay you for 75% of your monthly income when you are unable to work, due illness/accident.

Currently Aviva's one is having a 35% discount on perpetual premium, ending this month.
 

elnewbie

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Actually why are people advocating such plan when if you are not employed before you are disabled, the plan pays nothing.

Won't a straight accident plan that pays in 1 lump sum, plus critical illness be more value for money?

This is the disability income plan that many have been advocating in this forum.
This plan helps to pay you for 75% of your monthly income when you are unable to work, due illness/accident.

Currently Aviva's one is having a 35% discount on perpetual premium, ending this month.
 

BBCWatcher

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This is the disability income plan that many have been advocating in this forum.
Great Eastern's Pay Assure is among the four Disability Income Insurance (DII) policies sold in Singapore. The other three are two from Aviva (one is the MINDEF/MHA Group Disability rider) and one from AIA.

Actually why are people advocating such plan when if you are not employed before you are disabled, the plan pays nothing.

Won't a straight accident plan that pays in 1 lump sum, plus critical illness be more value for money?
No. First of all, you're mistaken. The DII policies vary in how much unemployment they tolerate, but there is some toleration at least from one or a couple DII carriers. Read the policy letters carefully. Second, a CI/PA combination is a "named risks" combination, meaning that it doesn't cover many causes of disability. Also, CI/PA policies tend to pay lump sums that are grossly inadequate if you are long-term disabled. DII policies are term policies that'll take you all the way to age 65 or even age 70 (Aviva's MINDEF/MHA rider).

Let's do the math here. If your working career spans age 24 through age 64, that's 40 years of income from employment. Let's suppose your take home salary is S$5,000/month (2018 dollars) with a traditional 13th month over those 40 years. That's S$2.6 million (2018 dollars) of income over the course of a working career. DII policies let you insure up to 75% of that figure on a nominal basis, or S$1.95 million (nominal).

As an aside, the MINDEF/MHA rider will let you insure up to 50% but with 3%/year escalation. You can layer another 25% (fixed nominal) on top of that using another DII plan.

Now, what would it cost for a ~S$1.5 million (2018 dollars) lump sum CI/PA payout that would still leave you exposed to non-claimable disabilities? Is ~S$1.5 million even available? How about S$2 million or S$3 million if your take home pay is more than S$5,000/month?

You might (might) consider adding CI/PA to a DII foundation, particularly if you have lousy medical insurance. But you certainly wouldn't replace DII with CI/PA, not if you're considering genuine insurance needs in any sensible, logical way.

This blogger argues this logic, and I agree with it. DII is most foundational, very high priority.
 
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kram62

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I am currently in the process of applying for GE Payassure so I have very up to date policy illustration available. They still cover up to 730 days of unemployment (2 years).

The payout calculation is a bit different depending on whether you were employed or not at the time you become disabled. If yes, the payout is 75% of your salary, up to the sum assured when taking the policy (and it you can still work after being disabled but your new pay is in lower than 85% of your previous pay before being disabled, you still get a small payout which is calculated a bit differently (can't check now the exact numbers))

If you were unemployed at the time of the disability, GE Payassure still gives a payout of 50% of the monthly sum assured capped at 4000SGD max. (by the way, much better than aviva's 750SGD cap here).

I intend to do a more detailed review soon in the other thread about disability income as soon as I get some answer's from aviva that are missing.
 

xtwis7

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As BBCW advocates, this is not unemployment insurance since staying unemployed without any disability is a choice.
 

xorionn

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GE PayAssure premium for salary $8k is about $135/mth? anyone knows Aviva
 

BBCWatcher

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As BBCW advocates, this is not unemployment insurance since staying unemployed without any disability is a choice.
I’m not sure “advocates” is the right word as phrased. I merely point out that DII is not UI (Unemployment Insurance).

Yes, I advocate understanding how much unemployment a DII policy will tolerate. Zero is not desirable. However, the DII provider fears a moral hazard problem in this area, and some of that fear is justifiable. Consequently they all set some limits.

Staying unemployed is currently a choice in Singapore, where labor markets remain tight at least by global standards. It’s reasonable to predict that’ll continue since the government could simply ratchet down employment passes and work permits if/when necessary. Underemployment is harder to avoid, but DII providers don’t have any problem with underemployment as long as the DII is still at 75% or less (or 50% with the MINDEF/MHA rider).

Singapore doesn’t have universal (or near universal) UI, like many other countries do. The government argues that UI is unnecessary for the reasons I’ve just explained. I happen to disagree with the government. One possible approach would be to allow CPF members to borrow $600/month (2019 dollars) from their own Ordinary Accounts when involuntarily unemployed. OA borrowing could start 2 months after last day of employment, and total borrowing could not exceed 10 months ($6,000 in 2019). OA could still be used to service a mortgage. IRAS could automatically restore those OA funds (with accrued interest) via income tax assessments, or a CPF member could repay themselves earlier. Something like that seems quite reasonable to me, along with some minimum standards for notice or severance in lieu of notice.

A few private insurers used to offer UI, and there’s still a very little bit of UI available in Singapore. But it’s pretty awful. Maybank, for example, sells “EverEase,” which is a package of mostly ridiculous “insurance” including $500/month for up to 3 months in the event of retrenchment. A startup company called Bandboo introduced peer-to-peer UI a couple years ago, but I don’t know if they’re still around.

One thing you could do if you’re long-term unemployed (but not due to disability), and if your DII is about to lapse: buy the patchwork of Critical Illness and Personal Accident insurance at that point in time and in that set of circumstances, if that’s the best you can do. Generally I would recommend you find some job that generates an income since the income is obviously useful, in addition to keeping your DII in force, but if that’s how you want to roll in Singapore, you can.
 

kram62

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Thanks, seems lower cost than GE PayAsure
Do compare the exact policy terms between the different insurers. They are not 100% identical and for some things may differ quite significantly. So price is only one variable before deciding.
 

BBCWatcher

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A startup company called Bandboo introduced peer-to-peer UI a couple years ago, but I don’t know if they’re still around.
Bandboo is still around, but evidently they got out of the Unemployment Insurance (UI) business.

Anyway, I think the government ought to allow a bit of CPF Ordinary Account borrowing (and automatic repayment through IRAS with accrued interest) as a simple, straightforward form of Unemployment Insurance. OA funds already serve as a mortgage backstop.
 

xtwis7

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Looking forward to your review why you decided on GE.

Price is usually the top consideration for many buyers but it’s also never a Apple to Apple comparison.

Do compare the exact policy terms between the different insurers. They are not 100% identical and for some things may differ quite significantly. So price is only one variable before deciding.
 

kram62

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Looking forward to your review why you decided on GE.

Price is usually the top consideration for many buyers but it’s also never a Apple to Apple comparison.
Yeah, to be able to review properly, I would like that the aviva representative answer my questions... Been almost 2 weeks. Losing faith. (some of them are personal so no I won't ask them here. But I will share the overall answer as soon as I get it)
 

lowveld

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Hi experts, could I check if GE Pay Assure is still one of the better ones around? I’m covered under the MINDEF DII but am looking to get a second one as the Aviva one is somewhat on the low side (as I’ve not updated my salary in a while).

Many thanks!
 

boredboiboi

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Hi experts, could I check if GE Pay Assure is still one of the better ones around? I’m covered under the MINDEF DII but am looking to get a second one as the Aviva one is somewhat on the low side (as I’ve not updated my salary in a while).

Many thanks!

There is only 3 at the moment. From GE, AiA and Aviva
 

beckchen

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Yeah, to be able to review properly, I would like that the aviva representative answer my questions... Been almost 2 weeks. Losing faith. (some of them are personal so no I won't ask them here. But I will share the overall answer as soon as I get it)

Did you eventually get your answer?
 
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