IPPT - Machine or manual counting

[rogze79]

I have this observation regarding nsman taking ippt in FCCs as compared to the active personnel taking ippt in their units.

How many units out there, be it saf or spf, are still using buddy system for counting under the supervision of PTIs or the conducting body.

I wonder if nsman are the only ones that are subjected to machine counting in the various FCCs.

Let's be frank and call a spade a spade. It is easier in the case of buddy system. Machine counting for pushup and situp are definitely stricter.

So, why is nsman subjected to a higher standard? Shouldn't it be at least the same standards for all? Not enough machines? Saf no money?

Yeah right!

 

[Onelastwish]

sorry whats your argument?

if you can pass your ippt, does machine or manual matter?

 

[flowerpalms]

I have this observation regarding nsman taking ippt in FCCs as compared to the active personnel taking ippt in their units.

How many units out there, be it saf or spf, are still using buddy system for counting under the supervision of PTIs or the conducting body.

I wonder if nsman are the only ones that are subjected to machine counting in the various FCCs.

Let's be frank and call a spade a spade. It is easier in the case of buddy system. Machine counting for pushup and situp are definitely stricter.

So, why is nsman subjected to a higher standard? Shouldn't it be at least the same standards for all? Not enough machines? Saf no money?

Yeah right!

are you nsf or nsmen?

can you pass ur ippt now?

if yes what does it matter manual or machine? unless you do half **** push up by buddy system to pass ippt lah. do proper form very hard meh?? if you do proper form push up keep ur back straight does it matter machine or manual??

 

[reddevil0728]

I have this observation regarding nsman taking ippt in FCCs as compared to the active personnel taking ippt in their units.

How many units out there, be it saf or spf, are still using buddy system for counting under the supervision of PTIs or the conducting body.

I wonder if nsman are the only ones that are subjected to machine counting in the various FCCs.

Let's be frank and call a spade a spade. It is easier in the case of buddy system. Machine counting for pushup and situp are definitely stricter.

So, why is nsman subjected to a higher standard? Shouldn't it be at least the same standards for all? Not enough machines? Saf no money?

Yeah right!

say they subject everyone to a "higher standard" as you claim. Can you pass? If not doesn't make a diff what.

 

[Calander]

in terms of counting, the difference between manual counts and using of machines is basically none.

in manual counting, your buddies may "cheat" for you by reporting a higher count.

although machine is not able to do so, this is where the standard method of test is.

for your question on why FCC uses machines that is for NSmen use, and not for NSF and regulars. I believe because to charge NSF and regulars are easier compared to NSmen.

Another reason could be that regulars themselves have the integrity to report the correct count as all these form of actions do reflect in their performance records.

Also, did u realise that for machines, the participant needs to face the camera with their number tags before performing the station? Do you know there were cases that a different person using the NSman's NRIC to in-pro and do the test on behalf, so that they can share the incentives award? This machine and camera feature is to ensure the NSman doing the test are the actual NSman themselves.

Bottomline, if you are able to do the push-ups and sit-ups, then you can regardless is manual count or via machines. Unless as said above, you are planning to get someone else to do on your behalf, or get your buddy to report a different count. Otherwise, do not question or challenge the system of fairness and integrity.

And NSmen are grown-up adults.. No longer kids. Only kids has integrity issues.

 

[rogze79]

I am a nsman. Yes. I can pass with flying colors.

Potential cheating issue by nsman aside, I am sure the current measures and punishments in place are enough to deter cheating.

I am asking why nsfs and regulars in units are not held to the same strict/higher standards as the nsman. Not everyone is a saint. I have seen my fair share of sub-standard situps and pushups during my active years. It would be no-count pushups/situps going by the machine requirements.

The number of cisco ptis during each ippt session is just.. so many. Compare it to the conducting body in units. It is usually one or two person taking the scores for the stations. It's usually someone you know or familiar with. So, there is familiarity bias.

Let's face it, it is tougher for one to maintain the same level of fitness once you are juggling work, family and whatever in the society.

Honestly, fairness and integrity is a joke somehow in SG.

And I have not even gone to the Cdo/diver/pti requirement. The requirements for nsman are the same as the active personnel!

 

[reddevil0728]

I am a nsman. Yes. I can pass with flying colors.

Potential cheating issue by nsman aside, I am sure the current measures and punishments in place are enough to deter cheating.

I am asking why nsfs and regulars in units are not held to the same strict/higher standards as the nsman. Not everyone is a saint. I have seen my fair share of sub-standard situps and pushups during my active years. It would be no-count pushups/situps going by the machine requirements.

The number of cisco ptis during each ippt session is just.. so many. Compare it to the conducting body in units. It is usually one or two person taking the scores for the stations. It's usually someone you know or familiar with. So, there is familiarity bias.

Let's face it, it is tougher for one to maintain the same level of fitness once you are juggling work, family and whatever in the society.

Honestly, fairness and integrity is a joke somehow in SG.

And I have not even gone to the Cdo/diver/pti requirement. The requirements for nsman are the same as the active personnel!

Maybe SAF really no money lor.

Not sure if it’s worth it to increase taxes just so that everybody is supposedly held to the same standard.

 

[Mephist0pheLes]

dunno whats the purpose of this thread.

last time when u were nsf it was also manual counting rite? and those nsf will eventually become nsman and use machine counting also rite?

 

[rogze79]

Well.. defence budget is increasing every year. It's a matter of will.

Manual counting for push up was only implemented last April. Though counting for sit up was in place for quite some years.

I guess most of the guys are conditioned to accept things as it is. No one bother to think or talk about it. It's akin to us all sitting in a heated cauldron, getting cooked eventually.

My point is that, why is it that the nsman is made to go through stricter standards than active personnel? Are we fitter than the active soldiers? Most probably not. Exercises are part of their working hours. We have to exercise after working hours. And probably have to pay for gym memberships.

Males do not have it easy in sg.

 

[reddevil0728]

Well.. defence budget is increasing every year. It's a matter of will.

Manual counting for push up was only implemented last April. Though counting for sit up was in place for quite some years.

I guess most of the guys are conditioned to accept things as it is. No one bother to think or talk about it. It's akin to us all sitting in a heated cauldron, getting cooked eventually.

My point is that, why is it that the nsman is made to go through stricter standards than active personnel? Are we fitter than the active soldiers? Most probably not. Exercises are part of their working hours. We have to exercise after working hours. And probably have to pay for gym memberships.

Males do not have it easy in sg.

Sure, defence budget can be increasing every year. But there's such thing as "priority", it seems like you may not be conditioned to accept things as it is (unlike "most guys"), but you may not have understood the theory of scarcity, "unlimited wants, limited resources".

We can either use the increasing defence budget for more meaningful stuff like buying more advanced weapons, improving technology etc, or we can use that increasing defence budget to enforce such petty differences.

tbh, i prefer the former.

There are a lot of things that make sense in this world, but whether it is meaningful or easy to track is another matter.

 

[rogze79]

I guess NS is really petty stuff and of low priority. Does that means nsman is having the short ends of the stick? Stricter ippt standards and work-life disruption during reservist years.

The strongest link is only as strong as the weakest link, which is the ppl. Active or nsman. You can have the best tech in the world. End of the day, it probably amounts to nothing.

Saf should do away with those machines or rather, nsman. Just buy the latest toys.

 

[reddevil0728]

I guess NS is really petty stuff and of low priority. Does that means nsman is having the short ends of the stick? Stricter ippt standards and work-life disruption during reservist years.

The strongest link is only as strong as the weakest link, which is the ppl. Active or nsman. You can have the best tech in the world. End of the day, it probably amounts to nothing.

Saf should do away with those machines or rather, nsman. Just buy the latest toys.

still don't get your point. there may be "injustice" yes. But why are you so fixated about this. Every nsman also been through 2 years of NSF life.

What you are comparing now is like a son comparing himself to his father's generation, serving 2.5 years or longer in harsher conditions than now.

 

[flowerpalms]

dunno whats the purpose of this thread.

last time when u were nsf it was also manual counting rite? and those nsf will eventually become nsman and use machine counting also rite?

come on lah if your form is correct and straighten your back, why care if manual or machine??

most people like manual because they can cheat, period. like for example, ur buddy will still count if your back is not straight or can cheat on the push up numbers. but with machine, you cant cheat

so please just train up ur push ups and stop whining if i an nsmen who just completed my 8th ict can do 40 push ups in 1 minute, machine. why cant yoU?

 

[LWZ]

Used machine counting for the first time last Saturday. No issue.

 

[Idonknowhowuknow]

machine counting is da best

 

[flowerpalms]

Used machine counting for the first time last Saturday. No issue.

you do proper form and straighten back confirm no issue 1

those people that say manual better are those who cheat the system and also buddy cheat for them. cannot do proper push up then say cannot do lah aiyo

 

[LWZ]

you do proper form and straighten back confirm no issue 1

those people that say manual better are those who cheat the system and also buddy cheat for them. cannot do proper push up then say cannot do lah aiyo

ya, esp during ict

 

[pikafunk3]

I have this observation regarding nsman taking ippt in FCCs as compared to the active personnel taking ippt in their units.

How many units out there, be it saf or spf, are still using buddy system for counting under the supervision of PTIs or the conducting body.

I wonder if nsman are the only ones that are subjected to machine counting in the various FCCs.

Let's be frank and call a spade a spade. It is easier in the case of buddy system. Machine counting for pushup and situp are definitely stricter.

So, why is nsman subjected to a higher standard? Shouldn't it be at least the same standards for all? Not enough machines? Saf no money?

Yeah right!

actually FCC are set up with equipment to deal with large numbers of NSmen taking IPPT and having IPT/RT training

the goal is trying to maximiise efficiency

this one need to know a bit about the past.

in the early days, taking ippt and rt is a very painful process with long waiting times and very long queues. there were numerous complaints as well. taking one simple ippt could be a whole day affair.

all these are done to solve these problems.

practically, at unit level, if time and crowds are not an issue, manual method may be better because there is no need to waste time setting up equipment.

 

[Kyoji83]

Machine use 'sensor' to take your 1st one as standard for the rest. When you get tired, you will not be able to maintain the standard at '1st reading for sensor' level and a lot of time you do is 'no count' which is waste of energy and effort. Got a friend who is IPPT Gold during manual count and when the first time he go for machine count, he fail his IPPT due to 'no count'! So there is a different.

Regular should use machine because they sign up for it. NSF may consider to use machine cause they can train PT full time. However it is challenging for NSmen because of full time job, part time studies and family commitment. So it is kind of unfair if Regular and NSF use manual count while NSmen use machine count.

are you nsf or nsmen?

can you pass ur ippt now?

if yes what does it matter manual or machine? unless you do half **** push up by buddy system to pass ippt lah. do proper form very hard meh?? if you do proper form push up keep ur back straight does it matter machine or manual??

sorry whats your argument?

if you can pass your ippt, does machine or manual matter?