ONT, router and wifi extender questions

[super365]

I am using Huawei HG8240 ONT with Asus RT-AC1200G+ router from M1.

Q1. If I add a TP Link RE200 wifi extender, will the 5ghz gets extended? I heard if my phone gets the wifi signal from the wifi extender it will be lower bandwidth/speed than getting wifi from router, is it true?

Q2. If SSID of router and wifi extender is exact same SSID name, how to make my phone auto switch to use the better signal strength? How to know is my phone connected to router or wifi extender?

Q3. If SSID of router and wifi extender is different SSID name, how to make my phone auto switch to use the better signal strength?

Q4. What is the difference of HG8240 (black color) HG8240H (white color)?

Q5. How to change to a new same exact ONT? How to change to a new different ONT? I mean after replacing the ONT, what necessary setup/configure to do?

Q6. If I buy a used ONT/router, must the seller be using the ONT/router same from the same ISP I am using? (e.g. I am using M1 fiber, current ONT and router is from M1, must the seller ONT/router be from M1 then I can use?)

Q7. Does ONT affect speed and signal penetration wall strength/coverage? What ONT is good now? Seldom hear people change ONT.

Thank you.

 

[xonix]

Q1. Yes

Q2. Use different SSID

Q3. Either by signal coverage or manually switching on device

Q4. No significant impact on you as a user

Q5. ONT replacement is only done by telco ( in your case M1 )

Q6. ONT= see above, router = no issue as long is retail models

Q7. No

 

[BradenHeat]

Hmm why not get mesh + LAN

Or recontract to get those mesh network than uses LAN back haul or tri-band mesh ??

 

[super365]

Hmm why not get mesh + LAN

Or recontract to get those mesh network than uses LAN back haul or tri-band mesh ??

Not too sure about the stuff you mentioned, I roughly assume it needs a LAN wall socket in the bedroom?

Inside bedroom do not have the LAN cable wall socket.

Inside bedroom have a telephone line wall socket (not sure if working, long time no use) and have a TV analog wall socket (last time connect it to watch TV, no digital TV now no use)

 

[albertlee]

Answer part of your questions:

Q4. Not much but in term of power consumption, white ONT is half (around 2.2w) of the black (4.4 to 6.7w).

Q5. ONT is locked to your address, even replacing the same exact model wouldn't work. Principle is similar to cable modem.

Q6. As Q5. ONT must be provided by ISP/RSP. Router can be any brand/model, even old RG like HG256s can work.

Q7. ONT acted as a bridge device. It has nothing to do with wifi access but there are ONT model that support wifi, not sure if any of the local ISP provide them.

 

[giraffey]

To also add...

Q1. If I add a TP Link RE200 wifi extender, will the 5ghz gets extended? I heard if my phone gets the wifi signal from the wifi extender it will be lower bandwidth/speed than getting wifi from router, is it true?

>> Yes, a wifi extender would simply mean extend the range further. Its like a "relay". Wifi extenders would result in a lower bandwidth (at least half) for clients connecting to the wifi extender. The reason being, the half the capacity is used to transport the connectivity to the main.
>> An alternative to minimize bandwidth lost is to use a triband mesh system where one channel will be used dedicated to communicate between the master and nodes.


Q2. If SSID of router and wifi extender is exact same SSID name, how to make my phone auto switch to use the better signal strength? How to know is my phone connected to router or wifi extender?

>> This would depend on the the client. Some clients would be more intelligent.
>> It is also dependent on the configuration of the wireless settings to find the optimum.
>> There is also a concept of smart roaming comes into play, where devices will try to find a better signal strength. But this needs to be supported by both router/APs and the client.
>> For layman, the best way to implement this is to use a mesh system, which automates it the configuration.

Q3. If SSID of router and wifi extender is different SSID name, how to make my phone auto switch to use the better signal strength?

>> This is dependent on the client (i.e. phone). But, not exactly foolproof. It will often get confused.


Q4. What is the difference of HG8240 (black color) HG8240H (white color)?
>> No difference. Maybe, its just the time of the manufacture/purchase by the ISP. Anyway, most of the ISPs issue similar specs ONTs.

Q5. How to change to a new same exact ONT? How to change to a new different ONT? I mean after replacing the ONT, what necessary setup/configure to do?
>> ONT is leased from the ISP and fully controlled by them. No setup/configuration on the user's end is required.
>> You only need to configure anything after the ONT, e.g. routers, APs, extenders, etc.


Q6. If I buy a used ONT/router, must the seller be using the ONT/router same from the same ISP I am using? (e.g. I am using M1 fiber, current ONT and router is from M1, must the seller ONT/router be from M1 then I can use?)
>> If not using SingTel, the wireless routers can be purchased outside easily. They are ISP neutral. SingTel is a bit complicated due to the ONRs and vLANs, etc.


Q7. Does ONT affect speed and signal penetration wall strength/coverage? What ONT is good now? Seldom hear people change ONT.
>> ONT does not provide Wifi. Some ISPs (ONR) may do (e.g. VQ).
>> As responded in earlier question, ONT is leased from the ISP.
>> It would be the routers/APs/Mesh that would be important, and not the ONT.


Based on your questions, it seems to me that you are concerned on roaming, ease of setup, bandwidth when extending the network. To solve these requirements, a triband mesh system would certainly help. You can purchase them outside. Not all ISPs bundle triband mesh systems.

 

[super365]

To also add...

Q1. If I add a TP Link RE200 wifi extender, will the 5ghz gets extended? I heard if my phone gets the wifi signal from the wifi extender it will be lower bandwidth/speed than getting wifi from router, is it true?

>> Yes, a wifi extender would simply mean extend the range further. Its like a "relay". Wifi extenders would result in a lower bandwidth (at least half) for clients connecting to the wifi extender. The reason being, the half the capacity is used to transport the connectivity to the main.
>> An alternative to minimize bandwidth lost is to use a triband mesh system where one channel will be used dedicated to communicate between the master and nodes.


Q2. If SSID of router and wifi extender is exact same SSID name, how to make my phone auto switch to use the better signal strength? How to know is my phone connected to router or wifi extender?

>> This would depend on the the client. Some clients would be more intelligent.
>> It is also dependent on the configuration of the wireless settings to find the optimum.
>> There is also a concept of smart roaming comes into play, where devices will try to find a better signal strength. But this needs to be supported by both router/APs and the client.
>> For layman, the best way to implement this is to use a mesh system, which automates it the configuration.

Q3. If SSID of router and wifi extender is different SSID name, how to make my phone auto switch to use the better signal strength?

>> This is dependent on the client (i.e. phone). But, not exactly foolproof. It will often get confused.


Q4. What is the difference of HG8240 (black color) HG8240H (white color)?
>> No difference. Maybe, its just the time of the manufacture/purchase by the ISP. Anyway, most of the ISPs issue similar specs ONTs.

Q5. How to change to a new same exact ONT? How to change to a new different ONT? I mean after replacing the ONT, what necessary setup/configure to do?
>> ONT is leased from the ISP and fully controlled by them. No setup/configuration on the user's end is required.
>> You only need to configure anything after the ONT, e.g. routers, APs, extenders, etc.


Q6. If I buy a used ONT/router, must the seller be using the ONT/router same from the same ISP I am using? (e.g. I am using M1 fiber, current ONT and router is from M1, must the seller ONT/router be from M1 then I can use?)
>> If not using SingTel, the wireless routers can be purchased outside easily. They are ISP neutral. SingTel is a bit complicated due to the ONRs and vLANs, etc.


Q7. Does ONT affect speed and signal penetration wall strength/coverage? What ONT is good now? Seldom hear people change ONT.
>> ONT does not provide Wifi. Some ISPs (ONR) may do (e.g. VQ).
>> As responded in earlier question, ONT is leased from the ISP.
>> It would be the routers/APs/Mesh that would be important, and not the ONT.


Based on your questions, it seems to me that you are concerned on roaming, ease of setup, bandwidth when extending the network. To solve these requirements, a triband mesh system would certainly help. You can purchase them outside. Not all ISPs bundle triband mesh systems.

If the router is giving out 500Mbps wifi signal, and there is a wifi extender and my phone is connected to wifi extender, does it mean my phone wifi speed will be 250Mbps, if no estimate how much Mbps my phone will receive? (I am not sure if bandwith means speed)

Does triband mesh need bedroom to have LAN wall socket to connect LAN cable? Only my living room has the fibre point connect to ONT, other room all wall no internet source.

"This would depend on the the client. Some clients would be more intelligent." What are the client examples? Is there a feature/name that I can look out for to know it is intelligent before I buy a new device? Is Samsung Note 8 an intelligent client?

How many types of mesh system are there? Most common one is it triband mesh system?

 

[giraffey]

If the router is giving out 500Mbps wifi signal, and there is a wifi extender and my phone is connected to wifi extender, does it mean my phone wifi speed will be 250Mbps, if no estimate how much Mbps my phone will receive? (I am not sure if bandwith means speed)

In layman, yes. If the original wireless router can broadcast 500Mbps for example, the node (repeater) will half it. 250Mbps used for the communication to the client (i.e. handphone), and the other 250Mbps to the wireless router.

Does triband mesh need bedroom to have LAN wall socket to connect LAN cable? Only my living room has the fibre point connect to ONT, other room all wall no internet source.

Mesh systems can either be wired backhaul (which connects the nodes via LAN points to the master) (there is also a some systems that don't support wired backhaul), or wireless backhaul. If using wireless backhaul, it is best to used triband ones (3 channels) which allow a 1 channel to be used for the communication between the node to the master. And the other channel to be used between the node to the client (i.e. phone).

If using wired backhaul, you can save money and use dualband.

"This would depend on the the client. Some clients would be more intelligent." What are the client examples? Is there a feature/name that I can look out for to know it is intelligent before I buy a new device? Is Samsung Note 8 an intelligent client?

The clients (phones, laptops) would need to support wifi roaming. Not sure about Note 8, but would safely say devices in the last 2-3 years would most likely have them.

How many types of mesh system are there? Most common one is it triband mesh system?

It depends on how you want to categorize it. If based on bands, there are only dual and tri.

Another main way to categorize it is whether it is Wifi 6 ("AX") or WiFi 5 ("AC"). WiFi 6 devices would cost more, but it comes with faster speeds (can be close to 1Gbps vs ~200-500Mbps on WiFi 5), coverage and reliability.

There are also different brands available the market.

 

[super365]

In layman, yes. If the original wireless router can broadcast 500Mbps for example, the node (repeater) will half it. 250Mbps used for the communication to the client (i.e. handphone), and the other 250Mbps to the wireless router.




Mesh systems can either be wired backhaul (which connects the nodes via LAN points to the master) (there is also a some systems that don't support wired backhaul), or wireless backhaul. If using wireless backhaul, it is best to used triband ones (3 channels) which allow a 1 channel to be used for the communication between the node to the master. And the other channel to be used between the node to the client (i.e. phone).

If using wired backhaul, you can save money and use dualband.


The clients (phones, laptops) would need to support wifi roaming. Not sure about Note 8, but would safely say devices in the last 2-3 years would most likely have them.



It depends on how you want to categorize it. If based on bands, there are only dual and tri.

Another main way to categorize it is whether it is Wifi 6 ("AX") or WiFi 5 ("AC"). WiFi 6 devices would cost more, but it comes with faster speeds (can be close to 1Gbps vs ~200-500Mbps on WiFi 5), coverage and reliability.

There are also different brands available the market.

I am using Huawei HG8240 ONT with Asus RT-AC1200G+ on M1 fibre 500Mbps plan. If I only replace Asus RT-AC1200G+ with a Wifi 6 ("AX") router, will my wifi speed improve? (no other stuff added or removed)

What Wifi 6 ("AX") router is good enough for 500Mbps? Prefer Asus as I am used to its user interface.

 

[xiaofan]

I am using Huawei HG8240 ONT with Asus RT-AC1200G+ on M1 fibre 500Mbps plan. If I only replace Asus RT-AC1200G+ with a Wifi 6 ("AX") router, will my wifi speed improve? (no other stuff added or removed)

What Wifi 6 ("AX") router is good enough for 500Mbps? Prefer Asus as I am used to its user interface.

RT-AX58U should be pretty good. And yes your wifi speed will get improved with WiFi 6 AX client, or even WiFi 5 AC client. The coverage will be better also.

 

[super365]

RT-AX58U should be pretty good. And yes your wifi speed will get improved with WiFi 6 AX client, or even WiFi 5 AC client. The coverage will be better also.

What are WiFi 6 AX client, WiFi 5 AC client?

 

[xiaofan]

What are WiFi 6 AX client, WiFi 5 AC client?

Wifi 6 clients or AX clients, typically with 5GHz AX support (may support 2.4GHz AX as well): iPhone 11/12, Laptop with Intel AX200 wifi card, many SD865 based Android phones, etc

Wifi 5 clients or AC clients, wth 5GHz band AC support: iPhone before iPhone 11, most of the laptops before 2020, most of the Android phones before 2020. There is no 2.4GHz AC. So they are on WiFi 4 802.11n standard on the 2.4GHz band.

 

[super365]

Wifi 6 clients or AX clients, typically with 5GHz AX support (may support 2.4GHz AX as well): iPhone 11/12, Laptop with Intel AX200 wifi card, many SD865 based Android phones, etc

Wifi 5 clients or AC clients, wth 5GHz band AC support: iPhone before iPhone 11, most of the laptops before 2020, most of the Android phones before 2020. There is no 2.4GHz AC. So they are on WiFi 4 802.11n standard on the 2.4GHz band.

Don't really understand "There is no 2.4GHz AC. So they are on WiFi 4 802.11n standard on the 2.4GHz band."

Asus RT-AC1200G+ router is it Wifi 5? My Asus RT-AC1200G+ gives out 2.4GHz and 5GHz wifi signals, I am using my Samsung Note 8 (android phone before 2020) and most laptops before 2020, does it mean I should not connect to 2.4GHz wifi signal (since you mentioned "There is no 2.4GHz AC.")?

 

[xiaofan]

Don't really understand "There is no 2.4GHz AC. So they are on WiFi 4 802.11n standard on the 2.4GHz band."

Asus RT-AC1200G+ router is it Wifi 5? My Asus RT-AC1200G+ gives out 2.4GHz and 5GHz wifi signals, I am using my Samsung Note 8 (android phone before 2020) and most laptops before 2020, does it mean I should not connect to 2.4GHz wifi signal (since you mentioned "There is no 2.4GHz AC.")?

Correct if you want faster speed.

Read this one. It is pretty good.
https://www.duckware.com/tech/wifi-in-the-us.html

 

[giraffey]

Don't really understand "There is no 2.4GHz AC. So they are on WiFi 4 802.11n standard on the 2.4GHz band."

Asus RT-AC1200G+ router is it Wifi 5? My Asus RT-AC1200G+ gives out 2.4GHz and 5GHz wifi signals, I am using my Samsung Note 8 (android phone before 2020) and most laptops before 2020, does it mean I should not connect to 2.4GHz wifi signal (since you mentioned "There is no 2.4GHz AC.")?

Yes, the router is WiFi5. Note 8 has a WiFi5 network card. But, note that it is a basic wireless router. If you are concern about wireless performance and having a better router, it would be best to get it outside.

You can still connect to either 2.4 or 5 bands. If not wrong, the RT-AC1200G+ router would allow you to either broadcast both bands separately or combine them together.

What xiaofan is explaining is that WiFi Standard 802.11ac refers to WiFi 5.

If you are still clueless, the bare minimum recommendation is that any wireless routers or clients and if you want to future proof with for a few years, should support at least the AC standard. WiFi6 "AX" standard is still in its early stage anyway.

 

[super365]

Using RT-AC1200G+ In my bedroom I get about 20Mbps when connected to 2.4Ghz SSID, I get about 60Mbps when connected to 5Ghz SSID. My M1 fibre is 500Mbps plan.

If I change to to RT-AC87U will I get faster speed when connected to 2.4Ghz or 5Ghz?

What asus models can at least get 500Mbps for 2.4GHz?

Not sure if my undestanding is correct or not, RT-AC1200G+ max limit of the 2.4Ghz is 300Mbps, then RT-AC87U max limit is of 2.4Ghz is 450 Mbps?

RT-AC1200G+ https://www.asus.com/sg/Networking/RT-AC1200G-plus/specifications/ it says
AC1200 enhanced AC performance : 300+867 Mbps
802.11n : up to 300 Mbps
802.11ac : up to 867 Mbps

RT-AC87U https://www.asus.com/sg/Networking/RTAC87U/specifications/ it says
AC2400 ultimate AC performance : 600+1734 Mbps
802.11n : up to 450 Mbps
802.11n TurboQAM : up to 600 Mbps
802.11ac : up to 1734 Mbps

 

[super365]

Your isp is only 500Mbps, so asus 1200g+ is more than capable to achieve this wireless speed (use 5ghz ssid, set to N/AC mixed, and 20/40/80MHz), the 2.4ghz ssid is slow, only around 50-70Mbps, don't use it if you concern on speed.

My old asus ac56s, i can get around 300-400Mbps wireless on my phone or router in repeater mode.


AX routers are new, good if you are on 1Gbps isp, or if you want whole house coverage, or if you have 8-20 devices all connected at the same time.

By the way, for M1, if you change router, you need to call up M1 and tell then to reset your network (reason change router) when you plug in your new router, otherwise no Internet.

"use 5ghz ssid, set to N/AC mixed, and 20/40/80MHz" How to set this?

Yes M1 change router like troublesome, so I think can only change during office hours, a few days ago after I changed from RT-N15U to RT-AC1200G+ no internet and need to call in. I have changed a few times RT-N15U to RT-N15U no problems without calling in M1 (not sure is lucky or what), I assume if I change from same model router to same model router no need to call in M1 correct, only change to different model router need to call in M1?

 

[giraffey]

"use 5ghz ssid, set to N/AC mixed, and 20/40/80MHz" How to set this?

Yes M1 change router like troublesome, so I think can only change during office hours, a few days ago after I changed from RT-N15U to RT-AC1200G+ no internet and need to call in. I have changed a few times RT-N15U to RT-N15U no problems without calling in M1 (not sure is lucky or what), I assume if I change from same model router to same model router no need to call in M1 correct, only change to different model router need to call in M1?

In your earlier test, you mention you are testing from your bedroom. What speeds are you getting when you are testing beside the wireless router?

For any router change, you would need to contact M1 to perform a backend reset, so it recognizes your new router (even when changing to a same model). The alternative is to turn it off for a while (maybe around 15-30mins or so) for the auto reset to happen.

Note: Wireless is limited to science. It is subjected to interferences (other wireless interferences, walls/doors/furniture) and it travels in straight lines. So, even if one gets the best wireless router/AP, there is still a limitation if the placement is poor. In some house layouts, often one wireless router/AP that is centrally positioned, it can cover the entire house effectively. But, in some others, you might need more than one.

 

[super365]

In your earlier test, you mention you are testing from your bedroom. What speeds are you getting when you are testing beside the wireless router?

For any router change, you would need to contact M1 to perform a backend reset, so it recognizes your new router (even when changing to a same model). The alternative is to turn it off for a while (maybe around 15-30mins or so) for the auto reset to happen.

Note: Wireless is limited to science. It is subjected to interferences (other wireless interferences, walls/doors/furniture) and it travels in straight lines. So, even if one gets the best wireless router/AP, there is still a limitation if the placement is poor. In some house layouts, often one wireless router/AP that is centrally positioned, it can cover the entire house effectively. But, in some others, you might need more than one.

Testing beside the wireless router I can get about 200Mbps (forgot is 2.4GHz or 5Ghz, tested days ago, unable immediately test now)

After passing one wall, the signal I get about 20Mbps when connected to 2.4Ghz SSID, I get about 150Mbps when connected to 5Ghz SSID.

After passing two walls, my bedroom I get about 20Mbps when connected to 2.4Ghz SSID, I get about 60Mbps when connected to 5Ghz SSID.

 

[giraffey]

Your speeds seems within normal realistic range though.

If I change to to RT-AC87U will I get faster speed when connected to 2.4Ghz or 5Ghz?

Yes, but there are a lot of variables.

Not sure if my undestanding is correct or not, RT-AC1200G+ max limit of the 2.4Ghz is 300Mbps, then RT-AC87U max limit is of 2.4Ghz is 450 Mbps?

These are just theoretical/advertised speeds. So take it with a pinch of salt. Realistic 2.4Ghz are quite low. If you can get 100Mbps, I think its already considered good.

Anyway, mobile data speeds are faster than 2.4Ghz. If I need 2.4Ghz, one could be better off using mobile data.