Opinions on Hardware

[Alternative X]

1) I have noticed that Asrock B85 Killer and MSI B85-G43 Gaming ATX motherboard are frequently recommended in gaming PC builds. Is there a reason why no one recommends MSI B85-G41 PC Mate or Asus B85 Plus ATX motherboards as alternatives to the Asrock B85 Killer and MSI B85-G43 Gaming?

2) Are AMD's Richland and Kaveri APUs viable(maybe cheaper) alternatives to Intel's Pentium and Celeron processors in home office, HTPC and light gaming builds(eg flash games, online MMORPGs, DOTA etc)?

3) I have noticed that Sharkoon and Cooler Master cases are highly recommended for budget gaming pc builds. However, I noticed that Aerocool seems to offer cases at a relatively low price point. Is there any reason for not choosing Aerocool cases for a PC build?

4) When taking a walk around Sim Lim Square, I noticed that most case fans sold in shops come with LEDs. Are there any good(maybe cheaper) non-LED case fans other than Corsair's AF and SP fans?

5)I understand that the current electricity rate in singapore is $0.2573/Kwh. Will there be significant cost savings to the electricity bill if I use a 80+ Gold PSU instead of a 80+ Bronze PSU?(Assuming an average gaming system consuming approximately 500W)

6)What are your opinions on Toshiba 3.5'' HDDs?

 

[hengheng220]

1) Cause b85 killer and b85-g43 gaming boards have killer ethernet in which can help in prioritize the internet connection on the game instead of sharing it between web browsing and gaming. Just get the one you like in terms of design or price

2) No, their performance in term of CPU computing side, falls behind intel and in sg, their prices with mobo cost almost the same as an i3 combo, so why not get an i3 which performs better, unless you are not planning to get a dedicated gpu.

3) actually cases are subjective, bros here are just offering opinions that this 2 cases looks better interms of their price point, and can fit full length gpu.

4) gentle typhoon and yateloon are not bad... but not sure if SLS still have them though

 

[royfrosty]

There are many thigs that a basic board like the b85 g41 will lack against the gaming oriented boards.

Things that it lacks off is

1. No support of multi channel audio such as only 2.1 or earphones can be used.
2. Very little usb ports available at the back of the mobo or front headers.
3. Lack of Killer Lan features, instead using realtek gigabit lan.
4. Position of fan headers also do plays a part on wire routing.
5. No usb stabile 5V port.
6. Aesthetically not very nice looking board.

Keveri performance is just on par with an i3. The only good use for it is for either a htpc OR alternatively use it for casual gaming in 720p resolutions.

Chassis wise. Dont just buy because it is cheap. You must see what is it able to fit. Things like longer graphics card, better fan cooling, clearance for psu length, good wire management areas, and lastly the quality of the paint and metal used. The general thumb of rule for me is anything below $129 is not very good chassis. Usually using soft metal, more plastic, more meshed being used, and usually with small room for wire management.

led is just for aesthetic purposes. Other than that it depends on the brand and model you are buying. Doesnt mean that have led means bad. AF series caters for airflow. SP is for static pressure. Google a bit and you will know what they are used for.

 

[Alternative X]

1) Cause b85 killer and b85-g43 gaming boards have killer ethernet in which can help in prioritize the internet connection on the game instead of sharing it between web browsing and gaming. Just get the one you like in terms of design or price

There are many thigs that a basic board like the b85 g41 will lack against the gaming oriented boards.

Things that it lacks off is

3. Lack of Killer Lan features, instead using realtek gigabit lan.

The thing is, according to the Intel vs Killer LAN thread, due to software issues, Killer LAN does not actually properly give priority over gaming network traffic and there are arguments that it does not matter what LAN your motherboard have as your network traffic wll get throttled by the Big Three anyway. This thread has given me the impression that these enhanced LAN are just snake oil and hence I am wondering if these features are worth shelling out extra money over.

2. Very little usb ports available at the back of the mobo or front headers.

According to research at the respective manufacturer's motherboard specs, the 4 motherboards have the same number of USB 2.0 and 3.0 ports and headers and I feel that it is enough for the average user.(Why would one need so many USB ports anyway?)

1. No support of multi channel audio such as only 2.1 or earphones can be used.

Does the model of the realtek sound chip actually make a difference to a non-audiophile anyway? Besides, if I want good audio, I can just simply get a sound card anyway.

5. No usb stable 5V port

What are the benefits of a USB stable 5V port?

4. Position of fan headers also do plays a part on wire routing.

Is it a good idea to use a 2 to 1 fan adapter or to just directly connect case fans to the PSU if I run out of fan headers on the motherboard?

Chassis wise. Dont just buy because it is cheap. You must see what is it able to fit. Things like longer graphics card, better fan cooling, clearance for psu length, good wire management areas, and lastly the quality of the paint and metal used. The general thumb of rule for me is anything below $129 is not very good chassis. Usually using soft metal, more plastic, more meshed being used, and usually with small room for wire management.

1)How do you tell a bad chassis from a good chassis from touch? Somehow, all chassis feel the same to me.(It could be inexperience or bad taste from me, though, as I only has experience with OEM cases.)

2)What GPU and CPU cooler clearances are generally good for a chassis?

4) gentle typhoon and yateloon are not bad... but not sure if SLS still have them though

Unless I am not looking hard enough, I have only seen fans by Corsair, Xigametek, Enermax, Akasa, Cooler Master, Tiny Tech and various no brand case fans in Singapore.

led is just for aesthetic purposes. Other than that it depends on the brand and model you are buying. Doesnt mean that have led means bad.

I understand that LED case fans offer similar performance to non-LED versions. However, I personally do not like my stuff to be gaudy, loud and full of bling and thus the question on non-LED case fans. Is there any way to shut off the LEDs other than modding the case fans?

 

[shadow84]

The thing is, according to the Intel vs Killer LAN thread, due to software issues, Killer LAN does not actually properly give priority over gaming network traffic and there are arguments that it does not matter what LAN your motherboard have as your network traffic wll get throttled by the Big Three anyway. This thread has given me the impression that these enhanced LAN are just snake oil and hence I am wondering if these features are worth shelling out extra money over.

One could say that. But as long as you use the drivers only for Killer Lan and not its software, you are safe and not prone to their gimmicks.

According to research at the respective manufacturer's motherboard specs, the 4 motherboards have the same number of USB 2.0 and 3.0 ports and headers and I feel that it is enough for the average user.(Why would one need so many USB ports anyway?)

Look at not only the USB2.0/3.0 headers, but also at the rear i/o. You will never know how many you need.G41 definitely has lesser due to it being a budget board.

Does the model of the realtek sound chip actually make a difference to a non-audiophile anyway? Besides, if I want good audio, I can just simply get a sound card anyway.

Getting external soundcard dun mean it is good. You wun be able to hear the diff between onboard and average soundcard, so you are just wasting money. But, onboard soundcard is pretty decent nowadays.

What are the benefits of a USB stable 5V port?

Well, it is more stable rather than borrowing power from other parts of the mobo. Think of it having its own lane just for power instead of sharing.

Is it a good idea to use a 2 to 1 fan adapter or to just directly connect case fans to the PSU if I run out of fan headers on the motherboard?

That is good as well, but what roy meant was that some headers are weirdly positioned, and you would need an extender jsut to connect. Best is if the headers are positioned near to the edges of the mobo and not centralised. You can connect to PSU as well, but u would need molex to 3/4pin adaptor.

1)How do you tell a bad chassis from a good chassis from touch? Somehow, all chassis feel the same to me.(It could be inexperience or bad taste from me, though, as I only has experience with OEM cases.)

Depends on build quality, material used, feedback from others, cable management, amt of usb 2.0/3.0, amt of 120/140 fans it can support.

2)What GPU and CPU cooler clearances are generally good for a chassis?

For GPU, above 290mm
For CPU cooler, above 160mm, iirc.

Unless I am not looking hard enough, I have only seen fans by Corsair, Xigametek, Enermax, Akasa, Cooler Master, Tiny Tech and various no brand case fans in Singapore.

Not many shops bring in a variety of fans, and most of the good ones can only be gotten from online.

I understand that LED case fans offer similar performance to non-LED versions. However, I personally do not like my stuff to be gaudy, loud and full of bling and thus the question on non-LED case fans. Is there any way to shut off the LEDs other than modding the case fans?

LED case fans are always weaker than non-LED case fans. Dun want LED, just get non-LED fans. Or u can get Enermax Cluster Advanced PWM 120mm fan from Amazon at $15.99. Has the ability to turn off its white LED.

My comments in Blue...

 

[Alternative X]

Depends on build quality, material used, feedback from others, cable management, amt of usb 2.0/3.0, amt of 120/140 fans it can support.

My question was actually on differentiating the build quality of various PC chassis. It is one thing to say that the chassis is made of high quality steel/aluminium and another thing when you actually find out that the chassis will break apart if you looked at it wrong.

 

[royfrosty]

Thanks shadow84 on replying on behalf.

Well chassis is something you must feel for yourself. It is not judge just by look.

Just to share some experience i had.

I bought many chassis since i started diy-ing since 2012. Total iirc

Coolermaster Elite 120 itx Chassis

Sharkoon T28

NZXT H230

Corsair Carbide 540 Air

And lastly Corsair Obsidian 900D.

In between i have bought other various chassis for friends and our dear forumers.

Such as, Corsair 600T, Corsair Obsidian 750D, Corsair Spec 02, Fractal Design R4, Fractal Design Arc Midi, Fractal design Mini, Sharkoon BD28, Sharkoon MS140, and lastly the last i build was a Corsair 760T.

Those cheap type of chassis, that cost around $120 and below, they tend to flex easily.

For instance my Sharkoon T28, and NZXT H230. It is made of soft metal. It is obviously lack of rigidness and definitely it feels very flexible. It does not have more alloys add into it to feel its rigidness. And as a DIY Hobbyist, you will tend to pull in pull out things and each time opening the side panels, The metal will just flex easily and in the long run it does not close well.

Call me ghey gao, but it is annoying to see when your chassis does not close properly or when you see there is a gap along side of the chassis. Correct, one might say "how often does one takes things out and put back?". But you must think, sometimes on a cheap tower chassis, even the wire management area are so small that the side panel does not close back. One must close it by exerting some force. And in the long run the metal just flex.

The jump in quality starts from above $129. It has more alloy added in for its rigidness. There are things such as removable storage drives for longer GPUs, things such as more front USB fronts, more aesthetics, more better fans are being used, such as static fans or good airflow which easily cost you $20-$30 for a good fan. Things like well hidden storage drives, there are even chassis that requires tool-less assembly such as LianLi chassis.

There are also chassis made of Full Aluminium, or Titanium. Many things to look at in chassis.

 

[Alternative X]

1)The current electricity rate in singapore is $0.2573/Kwh. Will there be significant cost savings to the electricity bill if I use a 80+ Gold PSU instead of a 80+ Bronze PSU?(Assuming an average gaming system consuming approximately 500W)

2) I understand that Western Digital Caviar Blue 3.5'' HDD are highly recommended for various builds. Why is this so? What are your opinions on Toshiba and Seagate 3.5'' HDDs?

 

[Yureak]

Not sure on the calculations... But i have an 850w gold seasonic x850 on sale

 

[KingJio]

Soundcard is just no. If you're an audiophile you won't bother yourself with it. If you're not an audiophile you shouldn't bother about it cos onboard is rly gd enuf. Imo the target audience for soundcards are fps gamers who may want one to tell which direction their enemy is approaching from. I'm not a fps gamer so i dun know how useful that is but doesn't sound v value for money to me

 

[royfrosty]

1)The current electricity rate in singapore is $0.2573/Kwh. Will there be significant cost savings to the electricity bill if I use a 80+ Gold PSU instead of a 80+ Bronze PSU?(Assuming an average gaming system consuming approximately 500W)

2) I understand that Western Digital Caviar Blue 3.5'' HDD are highly recommended for various builds. Why is this so? What are your opinions on Toshiba and Seagate 3.5'' HDDs?

1) PSU rated 500w does not mean that it will be using 500w constant. It varies when the system on idle it will draw much lesser power. And when on load it will draw more power. In terms of cost savings for between Bronze to Gold is not much. BUT when you are playing games with 2 GPUs, it does save a couple of bucks perhaps $2-5/month depending on the GPUs you use. It may not seems big savings, but over time you will tend to cover the cost of the PSU perhaps in 2-3years time.

2) On hdd type. On scales, Toshiba has the most failure rate in HDD as compared to other brands. HDD nowadays are pretty much standard, but WD made some things like WD Blue, Green, Red, Black, Purple for specific reasons. Which imo it is good and also broaden target audiences.

 

[dawnknight]

TS
just buy what u like and what fits ur needs
dont have to bother about what others are using

 

[Alternative X]

1) When buying 120mm case fans,what is a good

a) cfm value for airflow fans?
b) mm/H2O value for static pressure fans?

2) Not many brands of case fans come with specs for static pressure. How do you tell apart airflow fans from static pressure fans?

3)What are your opinions of Andyson and Acbel PSUs?

4) For motherboards meant for overclocking, what is the minimum amount of MOSFETs needed to reduce the chance of burning out the motherboard?

5) Some online stores sell MOSFET heatsinks where you use thermal glue to stick them to the MOSFET for enhanced heat dissipation. Are they generally effective at heat dissipation on the MOSFET or is it a better idea to get a mothermoard with a heatsink for the MOSFET?

 

[shadow84]

1) When buying 120mm case fans,what is a good

a) cfm value for airflow fans?
b) mm/H2O value for static pressure fans?

If a fan has very good static pressure and CFM, it will be damn loud. Like Delta Fans. Get CFM fans for airflow if there is not much restriction in the intake and exhaust of the fan. Get SP fans if there is restriction in either or both sides. SP fans are good for rads or pushing air thru hdd cages.

2) Not many brands of case fans come with specs for static pressure. How do you tell apart airflow fans from static pressure fans?

Most fans have 'fake' SP stats. Best is to depend on other users' opinions.

3)What are your opinions of Andyson and Acbel PSUs?

Budget PSUs? Best to just get FSP Hexa 400w or so bah. Decent enough.

4) For motherboards meant for overclocking, what is the minimum amount of MOSFETs needed to reduce the chance of burning out the motherboard?

Less MOSFETs dun mean it will burn ur mobo. It jsut mean the power to OC ur cpu is less 'clean'. Decent z series have 8 and onwards. Decent asrock z series have 12 at least.

5) Some online stores sell MOSFET heatsinks where you use thermal glue to stick them to the MOSFET for enhanced heat dissipation. Are they generally effective at heat dissipation on the MOSFET or is it a better idea to get a mothermoard with a heatsink for the MOSFET?

Once u stick thermal glue on your MOSFETs, u r practically GG when u wanna take out. You might rip them off. In general, MOSFETs dun heat up that much and the stock heatsinks are good enough.

My opinions in blue.

 

[Alternative X]

If a fan has very good static pressure and CFM, it will be damn loud. Like Delta Fans. Get CFM fans for airflow if there is not much restriction in the intake and exhaust of the fan.

Of course, Delta fans are overkill for most PC builds. However, what is the minimum cfm rating that seperates a good case fan from a bad case fan?(ie. Should I spend extra money for Corsair AF120 fans(63.47 cfm) or go el-cheapo and fill my fan slots with Cooler Master sleeve fans that comes in a 4-in-1 value package(44.73 cfm)?)

Budget PSUs? Best to just get FSP Hexa 400w or so bah. Decent enough.

Both Andyson and Acbel produce PSUs with a range between 300+W to 1000+W and are OEMs to a large number of PSU brands and OEM destkop PSUs. Some of their products are still being sold in stores. I have once come across a 850W PSU from Acbel in a Cyberactive store and noticed in old posts in the hardware hoots thread that some people have bought Andyson PSUs. Hence, my question is referring to whether the entire line of PSU made by Andyson and Acbel are trustworthy enough for use in a DIY build and not about the best budget PSU for a DIY build on a shoestring budget.

 

[shadow84]

Of course, Delta fans are overkill for most PC builds. However, what is the minimum cfm rating that seperates a good case fan from a bad case fan?(ie. Should I spend extra money for Corsair AF120 fans(63.47 cfm) or go el-cheapo and fill my fan slots with Cooler Master sleeve fans that comes in a 4-in-1 value package(44.73 cfm)?)

There is no rule stating that we need a min of XXX cfm for a fan. There are trade offs in getting high CFM such as increased noise levels. If you are comfortable with AF120, then get them. One thing though, 120mm do have better cfm/SP than 140mm.

Both Andyson and Acbel produce PSUs with a range between 300+W to 1000+W and are OEMs to a large number of PSU brands and OEM destkop PSUs. Some of their products are still being sold in stores. I have once come across a 850W PSU from Acbel in a Cyberactive store and noticed in old posts in the hardware hoots thread that some people have bought Andyson PSUs. Hence, my question is referring to whether the entire line of PSU made by Andyson and Acbel are trustworthy enough for use in a DIY build and not about the best budget PSU for a DIY build on a shoestring budget.

Most of us here prefer seasonic, fsp, superflower, corsair at least. Even for low wattage psu. PSU is like the heart of your system. Dun scrimp on it just coz it is cheaper than the rest.

My comments in blue.

 

[Yureak]

My comments in blue.

Seconded. Get a real PSU. Dont waste potential time or money