Recommendation for integrated amplifier?

[JT9988]

Hi All

Need some expert advice.
I am thinking of replacing my current Roksan oxyegene amp and am looking at either:
1. Rotel Michi X5 or X3 (waiting for series 2).
2. Mcintosh MA9000
3. Hegel H390 or H590

This is to drive DALI epicon 2. Have had Roksan driving the epicon 2 for the last 6 years...It sounded nice but I feel the amp does not bring the best out of the speaker. Not sure these 3 amp will be an overkill for epicon 2? Apart from these, any other amp which you have auditioned and think would be the best fit for epicon 2? Thanks.

 

[dreamaurora]

Hi All

Need some expert advice.
I am thinking of replacing my current Roksan oxyegene amp and am looking at either:
1. Rotel Michi X5 or X3 (waiting for series 2).
2. Mcintosh MA9000
3. Hegel H390 or H590

This is to drive DALI epicon 2. Have had Roksan driving the epicon 2 for the last 6 years...It sounded nice but I feel the amp does not bring the best out of the speaker. Not sure these 3 amp will be an overkill for epicon 2? Apart from these, any other amp which you have auditioned and think would be the best fit for epicon 2? Thanks.

No such thing such as overkill, more power and more current are good, even for bookshelves. I am also in the process of auditioning for new integrated amplifiers.

Epicon 2's sensitivity is average, so I think I would get an amplifier with more grunt.

If you are willing to pay for Michi X5 or H590 then might as well get Aavik I-280. One of the best amps I've heard, class D but sounds like class A.

For tube, Jadis I70. If cannot afford then Lab12 Integre 4 MKII. I'm seriously considering the Lab12, but I would probably home audition first to see if I can bear the heat. And also retubing is not cheap.

For solid state I'm considering Perreaux 300ix. I've heard it with Gauder Akustic Berlina RC3, one of the more notoriously hard bookshelf to drive, and it handled them very well. Similar sound to the Aavik at half the price.

Others I'm considering but have not auditioned: Hifi Rose RA180, Plinius Hiato. Out of all 3 you listed, I've heard H590 with Burmester bookshelf. It was okay I guess and sounded rather muffled, perhaps the speaker not enough run-in.

I've heard the Soulnote A2 and Yamaha AS3200. Pretty good as well but IMO not in same league as those I shortlisted.

 

[JT9988]

Thanks! That's a lot of interesting suggestion! Tube amp might sounds better but I am not considering at the moment due to the maintenance.

I saw your other posting, Perreaux 300ix looks really nice. Never heard of it so went to research but not many review on it unfortunately. I'll look at it especially if it sounding similar to Aavik I-280 with half the price and a class A! I might be bias but am not keen to look at another class D amp at the moment.

Heard of HIfi Rose RA180 too but it is another class D amp although good review from Steve Huff. https://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2022/10/15/the-hifi-rose-ra180-integrated-amplifier-review/

Just curious, why won't you consider Michi X5 or MA9000 (I understand you have not heard those yet)? The only drawback for me is their massive size and weight TBH! Hegel was my 3rd choice, so will eliminate it!

Music is really based on personal preference but good to get some idea, as it is impossible to audition all of them! Thanks for the input.

 

[petetherock]

Happy with my Michi X3
Enough power for most speakers
https://peteswrite.blogspot.com/2022/12/rotel-michi-x3-review.html?m=1

 

[JT9988]

Thanks Pete! Like you, I like warm, accurate and dynamic sound, and purely for music!
Also, I actually have been reading your blog!!

Anyway, why didn't you choose X5 instead? I think the only major difference is that X5 allows bi-wiring and power of 350W vs 600W?

I am waiting for series 2. Checked with The Expert Group but they haven't got it yet. Thanks.

 

[dreamaurora]

Thanks! That's a lot of interesting suggestion! Tube amp might sounds better but I am not considering at the moment due to the maintenance.

I saw your other posting, Perreaux 300ix looks really nice. Never heard of it so went to research but not many review on it unfortunately. I'll look at it especially if it sounding similar to Aavik I-280 with half the price and a class A! I might be bias but am not keen to look at another class D amp at the moment.

Heard of HIfi Rose RA180 too but it is another class D amp although good review from Steve Huff. https://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2022/10/15/the-hifi-rose-ra180-integrated-amplifier-review/

Just curious, why won't you consider Michi X5 or MA9000 (I understand you have not heard those yet)? The only drawback for me is their massive size and weight TBH! Hegel was my 3rd choice, so will eliminate it!

Music is really based on personal preference but good to get some idea, as it is impossible to audition all of them! Thanks for the input.

I did hear somewhat hear MA9000, but as a preamp/DAC connected to a pair of mono blocks at Ong Radio showroom. There was a pair Opera floorstanders connected to them. Sounded ok, but for their price, I expected to be mind blown. In any case I don’t like the aesthetic of McIntosh and the local markup by Ong Radio is quite a lot.

I do plan to hear Michi X3 as well but I prefer a high bias class AB like the Perreaux and Plinius. I am using Sony class A now and really hard to go back to class AB after enjoying the high fidelity and smoothness that is Class A. I really wanted to get Esoteric F-03A but a pity it is discontinued now. So my next best option is a high bias Class AB. The Aavik is really good, seriously.

 

[petetherock]

Thanks Pete! Like you, I like warm, accurate and dynamic sound, and purely for music!
Also, I actually have been reading your blog!!

Anyway, why didn't you choose X5 instead? I think the only major difference is that X5 allows bi-wiring and power of 350W vs 600W?

I am waiting for series 2. Checked with The Expert Group but they haven't got it yet. Thanks.

Unless you need monster power for 8ohms..
Do read up... the X3 digs deeper for demanding loads like 2 ohms..
And costs a lot more than the X3..

 

[yapks]

By the end of this year, I intend to acquire a new amplifier. I’m not interested in a sound profile that is overly smooth, deferential, or unhurried. Instead, my preference lies with an amplifier that delivers an abundance of Pace, Rhythm, and Timing (PRAT) and energy, thereby making it perfect for the pop and rock genres. I have a particular fondness for amplifiers that offer detailed, transparent, rapid, and potent sound reproduction. A mildly forward sonic signature is something I can accommodate.

I have previously owned Rotel amplifiers, yet my familiarity with their latest upscale Michi line is nonexistent. The Rotel amplifier I used in the past offered impressive power, but fell short in terms of pace and agility. This experience has made me wary of large, powerful amplifiers, as they can potentially result in a lackluster auditory experience.

When it comes to Class D amplifiers, my impression was that they were nearly up to par: they were fast and provided a clean sound. However, they seemed to lack an emotional depth, sounding excessively clinical. Nonetheless, I surmise that there may have been significant advancements in this class of amplifiers recently.

Class A amplifiers, in my personal opinion, produce the most pleasing sound, especially when it comes to vocal reproduction. However, most Class A amps exhibit a certain slowness, with Gryphon amplifiers being a notable exception.

 

[dreamaurora]

By the end of this year, I intend to acquire a new amplifier. I’m not interested in a sound profile that is overly smooth, deferential, or unhurried. Instead, my preference lies with an amplifier that delivers an abundance of Pace, Rhythm, and Timing (PRAT) and energy, thereby making it perfect for the pop and rock genres. I have a particular fondness for amplifiers that offer detailed, transparent, rapid, and potent sound reproduction. A mildly forward sonic signature is something I can accommodate.

I have previously owned Rotel amplifiers, yet my familiarity with their latest upscale Michi line is nonexistent. The Rotel amplifier I used in the past offered impressive power, but fell short in terms of pace and agility. This experience has made me wary of large, powerful amplifiers, as they can potentially result in a lackluster auditory experience.

When it comes to Class D amplifiers, my impression was that they were nearly up to par: they were fast and provided a clean sound. However, they seemed to lack an emotional depth, sounding excessively clinical. Nonetheless, I surmise that there may have been significant advancements in this class of amplifiers recently.

Class A amplifiers, in my personal opinion, produce the most pleasing sound, especially when it comes to vocal reproduction. However, most Class A amps exhibit a certain slowness, with Gryphon amplifiers being a notable exception.

I am same like you too. I love my female vocals, but my setup has to be able to do rock and metal too.

It has to be able to do songs like this:



The Perreaux 300ix rendered that song wonderfully, visceral with lots of PRAT.

Aavik Class D amps are the turning point for the class D. I think pretty much all the hifi reviewers agree that they are as good as top of the line Class A and AB amps. But their prices... Cheapest is I-180 around 9K+ before discount, but the noise floor was rather high and really must at least get I-280 which is almost 20K.

The rate of diminishing return is real for integrated amplifier. My eventual speaker+sub combo would cost $20K, so I am only willing to spend up to 10K for integrated amplifier if follow the guideline of amp 50% the cost of speakers. Maybe up a few more K so I can consider Luxman and Esoteric as well.

 

[yapks]

All those Aavik amps possibly sound great. Nonetheless, a prevalent issue exists: owning these high-priced amplifiers often invites taunts from owners of amplifiers that are 10 times less costly, yet are built with the same off-the-shelf Pascal Class D module. This fact compounds the issue. However, more significantly, I gravitate towards technology that showcases the unique ingenuity and innovation that the brand itself has cultivated.

 

[dreamaurora]

Since we are at this topic, I think the looks also important. Don't want just another boring looking box. The new Chord Ultima integrated looks so cool.

I like the look of T+A Integrated too.

The Perreaux 300ix I am considering. If I get this, I will request for pastel pink, lol.

HifiRose RA180 looks awesome and steampunk.

Love the industrial look of Nagra Int, but way out of my budget.

Melody Everest is probably the most beautiful tube integrated, not sure how it sounds though.

Out of Japanese brands, I like Esoteric the best, Accuphase and Luxman look uncle to me.

Boulder integrated looks like a piece of modern art.

And let's not forget Cabasse's AIO Sub+Dac+Integrated Pearl Sub.

Beautiful and affordable. Leak Stereo 130 and 230.

 

[dreamaurora]

All those Aavik amps possibly sound great. Nonetheless, a prevalent issue exists: owning these high-priced amplifiers often invites taunts from owners of amplifiers that are 10 times less costly, yet are built with the same off-the-shelf Pascal Class D module. This fact compounds the issue. However, more significantly, I gravitate towards technology that showcases the unique ingenuity and innovation that the brand itself has cultivated.

I don't think people who spend a bomb on these brands care about how others think. They seem to target the wealthy who have no time to do research and comparison. They just leave it to the dealer to assemble the setup to them. Ong Radio and Audio Group Denmark target this segment of market.

Us audiophiles I guess will do as much research as possible and buy the gear that truly elevates our setup without blowing our budget.

 

[yapks]

Hehe, I don't mind being a "rich *******" and rising above taunts and negative comments to focus on what truly matters: our own satisfaction and fulfillment. While some may perceive this as extravagant, there is undeniable joy in being able to test out high-end items or snake oil without being bothered by others' opinions.

 

[yapks]

One more expensive new integrated amplifier , Gryphon Diablo 333 .

 

[t258jgn]

I just placed order HiFi Rose RA180.
Not enough budget for Chord Ultima integrated

 

[dreamaurora]

I just placed order HiFi Rose RA180.
Not enough budget for Chord Ultima integrated

Wah, what is the waiting time for that? I asked last time for a long waiting list.

 

[dreamaurora]

So I decided to go down the tubes route...Lab 12 Integre4 MKII

I can safely say this amp is really the best I've heard up to 20K. Hyper detailed, very realistic timbre, tight bass, very quiet with deep soundstage. Not fatiguing to listen at all. Heat is manageable, after half hour then I turn on AC to suck out all the hot air. The only negative things I can think of is no pre out/sub out and no balanced input (the XLR input is unbalanced). It's really like the what ParttimeAudiophile reviews said, once you've heard a Lab12 stack, you question if you really need anything more.

And OP is now an Aavik convert. See, high-end class D is really the future (if can afford it).

 

[yapks]

Is hyper-detail a good thing for music?

 

[yapks]

Are you truly satisfied with tube performance in rock and metal?

 

[dreamaurora]

Is hyper-detail a good thing for music?

More details is good

Are you truly satisfied with tube performance in rock and metal?

Yes, this amp is significantly better than my previous Sony Class A for rock and metal; this was in fact a major consideration in purchasing this amp. The way this amp renders electric guitar and drum set is simply stunning.

Hyper detail is good but I would rank it low in terms of importance for enjoyment for music. With this amp I could actually pick out the sounds of pianists changing pedals much more easily. On the flip side I could also hear unintended background noise like the creaking of the chairs. Some people like, some people don’t like. Me, l don’t really care

What I care most is timbre. Instruments must sound realistic. And I think this is the main difference between the truly high end stuff and lower end ones. My previous one was pretty good actually, I would say 80% of the way, but I knew it’s not as convincing as those ultra high end expensive ones I’ve heard. This Lab12 is convincing enough for me, up there with the best ones like Aavik.