Renovation Woes - Flooring

LYCCCCCC

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Hi everyone, sorry for the long post, but I really need to seek some advice on my renovation situation.

For background, I engaged a well-known ID firm that is known to work with influencers. ID turned out to be irresponsive, irresponsible, forgetful and error-prone, yet defensive. He overpromised on the timeline and contributed to the carpentry errors and delays in rectifications. We gave him numerous chances based on his assurances that he would improve, but when he failed to do so, I escalated the issue to customer service. They promised that he would change, which we accepted, but he let us down again. The firm finally agreed to our request to get a new person – a PM in. Now the ID has been MIA again.

Months ago, we had our existing HDB vinyl flooring removed due to unevenness and engaged the ID to handle the self-levelling and installation of new vinyl flooring for our entire 5-room BTO, excluding the kitchen and bathrooms.

The last straw that prompted me to seek help here is because the quote included the provision of corrugated paper for floor protection, which was not provided.

As a result, now our new vinyl flooring had been exposed to heavy traffic, ceiling and carpentry dust, large carpentry debris, and moisture without any protection.

The following is the impact that the floor has gone through without the protection:
  • There were all the lights and fans installation in every room, which meant lots of drilling of the ceiling, leaving white renovation dust all over the floors in every room that not only fell on the surface of the floor, but between the gaps of the vinyl.
  • During this time, many heavy items were brought into the house, including countertop installation, kitchen & shower glassworks door and windows installation, and partition works, all conducted over the bare floor without any form of protection.
  • We also saw wet marks on the flooring outside the bathroom, and are unsure about the extent of this wetness throughout the rest of the flooring.
  • Additionally, there were piles of carpentry debris from all the rectifications that have been done, piling on our bare floor.

Do I have every right to be angry?

Even our other wardrobe carpenter that we engaged separately can think of covering up his carpentry due to the dust and debris generated.

Also, despite raising the issue days ago, just yesterday, the debris cleaning was done and we heard the contractors loudly pushing / flipping multiple large carpentry debris (some half to full height carpentry) into new positions, where it ended up incurring loud bangs on top of the unprotected floor, before they unloaded it onto the trolley.

In response to my disappointment on yet another major error by the ID, the PM said he can only apologize on behalf of the ID. He said that they could not redo the flooring and the only solution is to clean the flooring, check for scratches, and replace any damaged flooring.

He is going to get the flooring vendor to check, but I expressed my concern that it is difficult to trust the vendor’s contractors to thoroughly spot all damages. Won’t they have an incentive not to report issues to avoid replacing the vinyl? We are already exhausted from the horrors that the ID put us through in this renovation process, and we lack the capacity to inspect every single piece of vinyl flooring in the entire house.

I am also worried about underlying issues that might surface later on.

Seeking advice:
am I left with no option but to accept their proposed solution? Additionally, can I get some insights on whether I should be concerned about potential future issues or hidden damages, especially related to the self-leveling, due to exposure to moisture and heavy items being installed on the unprotected floor?


Photo of Carpentry Debris
Photo of MBR floor
 

skizzer

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I suggest you quickly get your own protection sheet, and cover it up yourself, or ask them to. But probably look through the contract first on this to see if they r really suppose to cover up.

Meanwhile, take record all comms, photos, and date them clearly as evidences.

And you definitely need to inspect all the vinyl, if you dont want to lose out, and be there physically to monitor them when they replace the vinyl pieces.

Lastly, after all these are done. Withhold the final payment and make super lots of noise, and refuse to sign off the hand over form until they complete the job. If the ID firm scream at you, then you scream back at them, try to at least salvage your damage by getting them to either:

- replace every single piece until your satisfied, then pay them.
- or just suck it up, and get them to give up the 5/10% final payment (low chance as they will probably go to great lengths to try to get this final payment).

and lastly, once most (if not all) key works are all completed (so you have nth much to lose if they dont cooperate further), you can go to as many review websites to bad mouth them, fb/IG, so increase the chances they will waive off all/part of your final payment as goodwill.
 

LYCCCCCC

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I suggest you quickly get your own protection sheet, and cover it up yourself, or ask them to. But probably look through the contract first on this to see if they r really suppose to cover up.

Meanwhile, take record all comms, photos, and date them clearly as evidences.

And you definitely need to inspect all the vinyl, if you dont want to lose out, and be there physically to monitor them when they replace the vinyl pieces.

Lastly, after all these are done. Withhold the final payment and make super lots of noise, and refuse to sign off the hand over form until they complete the job. If the ID firm scream at you, then you scream back at them, try to at least salvage your damage by getting them to either:

- replace every single piece until your satisfied, then pay them.
- or just suck it up, and get them to give up the 5/10% final payment (low chance as they will probably go to great lengths to try to get this final payment).

and lastly, once most (if not all) key works are all completed (so you have nth much to lose if they dont cooperate further), you can go to as many review websites to bad mouth them, fb/IG, so increase the chances they will waive off all/part of your final payment as goodwill.
Yup, the contract has black & white that they are supposed to provide, so it's a total miss by the ID.

Unfortunately, I'm already at the tail end of the renovation, hence why I'm so upset because for weeks to months while all the works are going on, no floor protection was done. And even after I raised it recently, no floor protection was done still.

All my peers said that the floor will most likely have damages, it's just such a painful task that I have to go through to identify them. And even if I replace them, there will be differences between the current vinyl and new vinyl, which will make the entire flooring look not cohesive. But I can't live with the damaged vinyl.

I'm at a loss on what to do.
 

windwaver

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Hi everyone, sorry for the long post, but I really need to seek some advice on my renovation situation.

For background, I engaged a well-known ID firm that is known to work with influencers. ID turned out to be irresponsive, irresponsible, forgetful and error-prone, yet defensive. He overpromised on the timeline and contributed to the carpentry errors and delays in rectifications. We gave him numerous chances based on his assurances that he would improve, but when he failed to do so, I escalated the issue to customer service. They promised that he would change, which we accepted, but he let us down again. The firm finally agreed to our request to get a new person – a PM in. Now the ID has been MIA again.

Months ago, we had our existing HDB vinyl flooring removed due to unevenness and engaged the ID to handle the self-levelling and installation of new vinyl flooring for our entire 5-room BTO, excluding the kitchen and bathrooms.

The last straw that prompted me to seek help here is because the quote included the provision of corrugated paper for floor protection, which was not provided.

As a result, now our new vinyl flooring had been exposed to heavy traffic, ceiling and carpentry dust, large carpentry debris, and moisture without any protection.

The following is the impact that the floor has gone through without the protection:
  • There were all the lights and fans installation in every room, which meant lots of drilling of the ceiling, leaving white renovation dust all over the floors in every room that not only fell on the surface of the floor, but between the gaps of the vinyl.
  • During this time, many heavy items were brought into the house, including countertop installation, kitchen & shower glassworks door and windows installation, and partition works, all conducted over the bare floor without any form of protection.
  • We also saw wet marks on the flooring outside the bathroom, and are unsure about the extent of this wetness throughout the rest of the flooring.
  • Additionally, there were piles of carpentry debris from all the rectifications that have been done, piling on our bare floor.

Do I have every right to be angry?

Even our other wardrobe carpenter that we engaged separately can think of covering up his carpentry due to the dust and debris generated.

Also, despite raising the issue days ago, just yesterday, the debris cleaning was done and we heard the contractors loudly pushing / flipping multiple large carpentry debris (some half to full height carpentry) into new positions, where it ended up incurring loud bangs on top of the unprotected floor, before they unloaded it onto the trolley.

In response to my disappointment on yet another major error by the ID, the PM said he can only apologize on behalf of the ID. He said that they could not redo the flooring and the only solution is to clean the flooring, check for scratches, and replace any damaged flooring.

He is going to get the flooring vendor to check, but I expressed my concern that it is difficult to trust the vendor’s contractors to thoroughly spot all damages. Won’t they have an incentive not to report issues to avoid replacing the vinyl? We are already exhausted from the horrors that the ID put us through in this renovation process, and we lack the capacity to inspect every single piece of vinyl flooring in the entire house.

I am also worried about underlying issues that might surface later on.

Seeking advice:
am I left with no option but to accept their proposed solution? Additionally, can I get some insights on whether I should be concerned about potential future issues or hidden damages, especially related to the self-leveling, due to exposure to moisture and heavy items being installed on the unprotected floor?


Photo of Carpentry Debris
Photo of MBR floor
Should have replaced with tiles.
 

windwaver

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Yup, the contract has black & white that they are supposed to provide, so it's a total miss by the ID.

Unfortunately, I'm already at the tail end of the renovation, hence why I'm so upset because for weeks to months while all the works are going on, no floor protection was done. And even after I raised it recently, no floor protection was done still.

All my peers said that the floor will most likely have damages, it's just such a painful task that I have to go through to identify them. And even if I replace them, there will be differences between the current vinyl and new vinyl, which will make the entire flooring look not cohesive. But I can't live with the damaged vinyl.

I'm at a loss on what to do.
Most likely will have damages on Vinyl. Even daily usage if not careful will also kena dents here and there, no need to mention heavy equipment from contractors.
 

DevilPlate

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Yes tiles best…(but low quality tiles crack easily)

Vinyl is borderline scammy product :poop:
I rather install swee swee solid timber flooring and sand/re-varnish every 5-10years
 

LYCCCCCC

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We were considering tiles but didn't go ahead because of the costs. This ID did offer us options including microcement. But even if it was tiles/microcement that we went for with this ID, there is also a potential the same issue would surface because of his neglect, and replacing them is also a headache. :(
 

LYCCCCCC

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Won't it be more heart pain if the scratches are on tiles? 😰
Exactly! I heard that replacing tiles and microcement is a big headache. My original HDB tiles for the kitchen and bathrooms also do not have protection. We installed carpentry and so many glassworks in those areas. So that's also another headache that I have to check, to see if there are any damages.

I really feel so upset at this situation.
 

lethiaa

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If I'm you I will not pay the contractor the remaining sum and at the same time, engage another contractor to replace all the vinyl. Gotta spend another sum of money but at least it saves you the headache of dealing with your current contractor and you get to finish up your house reno.
 

windwaver

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Won't it be more heart pain if the scratches are on tiles? 😰
Get full or half bodied tiles. I'm using large format half bodied tiles, very nice.

Don't ever get glazed tiles. The thin layer of glaze chips easily.
 
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LYCCCCCC

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Thanks all for the suggestions, we still have remaining works left that comes up to quite a sum, so I'm not sure how to go about this. Though, I also believe dealing with this firm is a huge headache, which I really feel so tired of them.

When I brought up the concern that the damages might not be satisfactorily spotted now and that what if the moisture or any underlying problems causes issues in the future, that we cannot identify at the moment. The PM said that the floor is covered by warranty anyway, as if that will resolve all our concerns.

I insisted that I wanted to see the warranty before making any decisions. So just only, the PM reverted with the warranty from the flooring contractor and these are not covered by the warranty.

  • Damage caused by moisture to surrounding structure, walls, subfloor, fixtures, furniture, underlayment, moldings, trims, subfloor heating elements, or anything that is not the structural integrity or dimensional stability of the floor plank or tile.
  • Indentation or damage from improper loading including high heels, spiked shoes, rolling loads, chairs or other furniture not using floor protectors.
  • Damage caused by abuse such as moving appliances across the floor without adequate protection. When moving appliances or heavy furniture, lay a plywood panel on your floor and “walk” the item across it. This protects your floor from scuffing and tears.
Now I am just weighing all my options before deciding the next steps. Any other insights is still appreciated on how else I can deal with this situation.
 

elvintay07

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should put the ID firm big big so that others won’t hire them. The top killer is ID heavily promoted by influencers.

At this stage cannot do much already. Only got these options

(1) ask someone to polish the vinyl then leave with it

(2) withhold the last payment

(3) change the vinyl flooring if badly damaged

Actually vinyl is atas compared to tiles. But tiles is lasting
 

LYCCCCCC

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should put the ID firm big big so that others won’t hire them. The top killer is ID heavily promoted by influencers.

At this stage cannot do much already. Only got these options

(1) ask someone to polish the vinyl then leave with it

(2) withhold the last payment

(3) change the vinyl flooring if badly damaged

Actually vinyl is atas compared to tiles. But tiles is lasting
I agree, homeowners really need to watch out for errant IDs. I have been told that publicly naming them in this manner can have legal implications. Though it really upsets me that I have not been treated this way by them, I want to ensure that any action I take is fair and responsible. It seems that this firm already has a negative reputation on social media Tiktok with a case that blew up months ago, plus I, myself recently also heard negative experiences from peers through WOM.

Homeowners are really not well protected in this renovation industry. I and my peers can only share our experience and provide advice to help others avoid similar situations.

Sadly, option 1 won't work because the warranty document states that "Vinyl polished by third party" voids the 25-year warranty, and the flooring vendor does not provide any Vinyl polishing services.

Cleaning is being scheduled now, so I can only wait and see.

And yup, according to them, this is Luxury Resilient Vinyl Flooring, so it's pricey.
 
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elvintay07

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I agree, homeowners really need to watch out for errant IDs. I have been told that publicly naming them in this manner can have legal implications. Though it really upsets me that I have not been treated this way by them, I want to ensure that any action I take is fair and responsible. It seems that this firm already has a negative reputation on social media Tiktok with a case that blew up months ago, plus I, myself recently also heard negative experiences from peers through WOM.

Homeowners are really not well protected in this renovation industry. I and my peers can only share our experience and provide advice to help others avoid similar situations.

Sadly, option 1 won't work because the warranty document states that "Vinyl polished by third party" voids the 25-year warranty, and the flooring vendor does not provide any Vinyl polishing services.

Cleaning is being scheduled now, so I can only wait and see.

And yup, according to them, this is Luxury Resilient Vinyl Flooring, so it's pricey.
What kind of legal implications? Sue you for making factual statements? information like company’s UEN and ID name should be public info.
 

elvintay07

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I agree, homeowners really need to watch out for errant IDs. I have been told that publicly naming them in this manner can have legal implications. Though it really upsets me that I have not been treated this way by them, I want to ensure that any action I take is fair and responsible. It seems that this firm already has a negative reputation on social media Tiktok with a case that blew up months ago, plus I, myself recently also heard negative experiences from peers through WOM.

Homeowners are really not well protected in this renovation industry. I and my peers can only share our experience and provide advice to help others avoid similar situations.

Sadly, option 1 won't work because the warranty document states that "Vinyl polished by third party" voids the 25-year warranty, and the flooring vendor does not provide any Vinyl polishing services.

Cleaning is being scheduled now, so I can only wait and see.

And yup, according to them, this is Luxury Resilient Vinyl Flooring, so it's pricey.
Many of ppl I know (including me) uses design firms own by architects. Usually more expensive but piece of mind. Practising architects are like doctors (need to be registered before they can practise). Their code of conduct very high and everything really black and white. Their fees are very transparent and during renovation, they will ask 3 main con to quote. If you add up, maybe more expensive than those ID firms but many ID’s are self made IDs. I encountered a few personally. The questions they ask, I run away as far as I can
 

skizzer

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What kind of legal implications? Sue you for making factual statements? information like company’s UEN and ID name should be public info.
Agree no legal implication from name + shame (as long as you are stating the truth and have evidence to back you up). They might threaten to sue you for slandering, but no way they will do that (it will cost them less to discount you to keep you quiet, than to actually hire a law firm to take u to court).

Publicly name and shame (AFTER most/if not all of the works are completed) + withholding the final payment (make it nasty for them so that they will really listen to your requests).

But ultimately I think the only thing they can do is replace the damaged vinyl. But this one really u have to like inspect closely and see what you can accept. Then see if you can negotiate with them to waive off part of ur final payment as compensation (if not you pay them full, but really make them bleed by making them replace alot of your vinyls). The mismatch issue cannot be resolved with this, but I think having mismatch vinyl is better than having damaged vinyl?

Anw I think vinyl provider warranty doesn't do much tbh. most people here move houses regularly, and replacement of vinyl flooring probably need to happen at 10 year mark or so.
 

DevilPlate

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Get full or half bodied tiles. I'm using large format half bodied tiles, very nice.

Don't ever get glazed tiles. The thin layer of glaze chips easily.
Compressed marbles also not bad….quite hardy, uniform look, not so porous compared to solid marble and easily polish away all scratches
 

DevilPlate

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should put the ID firm big big so that others won’t hire them. The top killer is ID heavily promoted by influencers.

At this stage cannot do much already. Only got these options

(1) ask someone to polish the vinyl then leave with it

(2) withhold the last payment

(3) change the vinyl flooring if badly damaged

Actually vinyl is atas compared to tiles. But tiles is lasting
First time i heard Vinyl atas hahaha
Maybe visually looks more atas than porcelain tiles nia.

i prefer compressed marble or granite floor tiles.
 
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