What would you do?

frenchbriefs

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Firstly you are too optimistic about the expenses. Mine is about 100K. Secondly it's unrealistic to assume 9% return consistently. Thirdly the salary comes with a high degree of risk in terms of job security. I reckon I will be retrenched at least 3 times in my career.

what is so unrealistic about 9 percent return cumulative returns?from what i read in many books and articles,9 percent is about the market return give or take 1 percent.that is assuming a investment horizon of at least 20 years plus.u cannot achieve the market return sitting on your ass doing nothing just putting ur money in a couple of index etfs?we are not asking u to achieve warren buffet like returns of 22 percent per year compounded.

im in my mid twenties,for the first two and a half decade of my life or so,my living expenses has never exceeded 1k a month or so,thats approx 12k a year,is that impossible?outrageous?im sure there are many peasants that live the way i do.theres alot of leeway between 12k and 100k,frankly it all boils to how bad u want it,frankly i think its no point for you at all,people in your shoes should be aiming for even loftier goals,setting urself higher targets,instead of being a millionaire u should be aiming for 10 million.i read this finance blog,there are four quadrants of spending matrix,the low earners and high spenders,the credit card and bank loan generation,the low earners and low spenders,frugal by nature,and the high earners and high spenders.people think in order to become a millionaire u have to earn a six figure digit income,but in reality those are the people most likely to remain broke all of their lives.

anyway i really wish to know what people do in life to make 30k a month from a job.
 

frenchbriefs

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nvm found it.

He saves $16k out of his $20k pay each month

MR EUGENE Soo, 26, has barely worked for two years since graduating from Nanyang Technological University (NTU) with a degree in business administration in 2006. But he is already earning an income that is surely the envy of both young as well as old graduates.
Lorna Tan

Sun, Mar 16, 2008
The Straits Times

MR EUGENE Soo, 26, has barely worked for two years since graduating from Nanyang Technological University (NTU) with a degree in business administration in 2006. But he is already earning an income that is surely the envy of both young as well as old graduates.
A licensed financial adviser representative with Professional Investment Advisory Services, his gross monthly income exceeds $20,000 a month. This includes his own sales commissions and overriding commissions of his team of 40 advisory representatives.

His interest in the field of personal finance was ignited when he signed up for a banking and finance diploma at Nanyang Polytechnic and found himself topping his cohort in the first year.

'I found out that I was inclined towards finance and numbers...and that spurred my interest in investing,' he recalled.

At NTU, he was the president of its Investment Interactive Club where he had a hand in organising talks and competitions to improve the financial literacy of students.

Before long, he was itching to join the real world of investing and eventually took the plunge in his final year at the university by joining a financial advisory firm as an advisory representative.

That year, he qualified for the Million Dollar Round Table - an international, independent association of the world's most successful life insurance and financial services professionals - and was earning $8,000 to $10,000 a month. This was on top of his other income from giving tuition and running a mobile motorbike washing business which he had set up in his polytechnic days. He joined his current firm in September last year.

'I enjoy what I do. Helping people to grow their finances and giving them advice gives me satisfaction and drives me to want to excel,' he said.

His advice to young people is that they should start planning early as the most important factor in growing one's wealth is not how much you have, but how long you have to grow your money.

'Make it a habit to save and the desire to own something, be it an asset, material stuff, or your dreams. Aim for something in life. Never wait for an emergency before realising the importance of planning early,' he said.

Q What are your money habits?

A I used to be a spender when I was in school and when I first started work. I spent almost all that I earned. I would save for something and one big purchase would wipe out my savings.

But I am now a saver and I save close to 80 per cent of my income for long-term goals. I pay cash most of the time and use credit cards only if there is an interest-free payment tied with the purchase.

Q What financial planning have you done for yourself?

A About 15 per cent of my investments are in investment-linked insurance products (ILPs), while 75 per cent are in a unit trust portfolio which I started in my polytechnic days. The balance is in stocks.

My unit trust portfolio comprises 100 per cent equities, mainly in commodities and Asia-Pacific funds. It is also mainly in high-risk sectors because I am building it on a long-term basis.

I monitor it on a weekly basis and it has generated an annual return of 20 per cent.

Q What about insurance planning?

A I have mainly term plans, a whole life plan and ILPs. I am covered for $500,000 on my life. Annual premiums come up to around $5,500.

Get a foundation plan like a whole life and enhance it with a term cover in your prime years. The advantage of a basic whole life plan is that it locks in the premiums at an early age and still gives a cash value when you surrender it in your later years.

Q What's your investment philosophy?

A I believe in dollar-cost averaging over a long period of time. I have been in the market since my polytechnic days and have been pumping in regular investment amounts using my salary from part-time work.

Over the past few years, there were many uncertainties and events that adversely impacted the returns of my portfolio. But by constantly investing into the market, I was able to average out my cost as I am able to buy equities more cheaply when the markets are down.

Overall, this helped me to achieve decent positive returns that outdo the returns of savings accounts.

Q What businesses have you gone into?

A I have a passion for motorbikes, which was how I got the idea for a mobile motorbike washing business. This was set up during my polytechnic days and it generated close to $6,000 a month, excluding exam periods.

I went to condominiums and offered washing, waxing and polishing services to motorbike owners. Now, I still get assignments from clients, which I pass on to my friends. I intend to expand the business once I find time off from my busy schedule.

I have also bought and sold motorbikes. It started out quite by accident when I was surfing the Internet and saw a cheap buy. I spotted the opportunity and made the transaction. It is possible to make up to 40 per cent profit, which amounts to about $2,500 a bike from such transactions.

When at NTU, I ventured into event planning, such as organising company dinners, which was very lucrative. The business involved securing deals and coordinating with different suppliers.

Q Moneywise, what were your growing-up years like?

A I live in a four-room flat in Aljunied with my parents and sister. My father is a stockbroker, and when I was young, I witnessed how exciting watching the daily teletext could be. My mum is a housewife.

I was taught from a young age to earn money to get the things that I wanted. I did not have many toys or video games and most of the items were hand-me-downs from an older cousin.

My mum, who is a saver, used to take me to different banks every week just to deposit $10 or $20 into my accounts. 'Without $10, you think you will have $100?' she always said.

Q What's your retirement plan?

A I intend to retire before 50 and achieve a passive income of $20,000 a month. I hope to own properties in Australia and travel there often to relax.

My nest egg will be a lump sum of money invested into different asset classes such as properties for rental income, shares, unit trusts and a high guaranteed single premium plan.

Q And your car is...?

A A white Honda Integra. I bought it just before I graduated from NTU with my own money.

lorna@sph.com.sg
 

orange_sky

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what is so unrealistic about 9 percent return cumulative returns?from what i read in many books and articles,9 percent is about the market return give or take 1 percent.that is assuming a investment horizon of at least 20 years plus.u cannot achieve the market return sitting on your ass doing nothing just putting ur money in a couple of index etfs?we are not asking u to achieve warren buffet like returns of 22 percent per year compounded.

im in my mid twenties,for the first two and a half decade of my life or so,my living expenses has never exceeded 1k a month or so,thats approx 12k a year,is that impossible?outrageous?im sure there are many peasants that live the way i do.theres alot of leeway between 12k and 100k,frankly it all boils to how bad u want it,frankly i think its no point for you at all,people in your shoes should be aiming for even loftier goals,setting urself higher targets,instead of being a millionaire u should be aiming for 10 million.i read this finance blog,there are four quadrants of spending matrix,the low earners and high spenders,the credit card and bank loan generation,the low earners and low spenders,frugal by nature,and the high earners and high spenders.people think in order to become a millionaire u have to earn a six figure digit income,but in reality those are the people most likely to remain broke all of their lives.

anyway i really wish to know what people do in life to make 30k a month from a job.

I don't wish to argue on the above. You are in your 20s, presumably single. Your expenses when you are older, married with children will be considerably different. I won't go into the details. You will find out yourself when you get married and have kids.

Anyway my point is it's always better to overestimate your expenses and underestimate your returns as any surprises will not be a rude shock. It's also more prudent for retirement planning.
 

highsulphur

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Frenchbriefs, doctors, lawyers, bankers etc all can earn up to 30K/month
 

mummy1234

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Becoming a PSC scholar and getting into the Admin service in Civil Service can earn big bucks too like my Friend who is on track to becoming perm Sec in future and of course being a President Scholar and making it into parliament can also like another Friend who is holding high post there and being active in PAP and becoming a MP can also...
 

Perisher

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I don't wish to argue on the above. You are in your 20s, presumably single. Your expenses when you are older, married with children will be considerably different. I won't go into the details. You will find out yourself when you get married and have kids.

Anyway my point is it's always better to overestimate your expenses and underestimate your returns as any surprises will not be a rude shock. It's also more prudent for retirement planning.

Having read through some of your post, I think you sound like you know what you are doing and should really be the one doing the advising. Do share more. :)
 

wondrdoggie

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Thanks for the post. I don't have a private banker. My quantum doesn't qualify me for one nor do I believe in using one. So far my investments are mostly sti etf, abf, iwda and vt. I have other small singapore blue chip counters as well some pref shares. My end goal ie to reduce to less than 10 etfs.

I'm not aiming for high returns hence not really looking to invest in anything funky. Anything 3-4% on a relatively low risk basis I'd good for me.

3-4% target is very realistic and you should be able to achieve that on average over the years via a simple mix of bonds and equities. I am aiming for 6-8%, that's why I am more aggressive.

Anyways, I was also grappling with whether to use cash kept aside to buy more stocks with the recent downturn. In the end, I went in with about 35% and kept the rest in cash to wait and see. Managed to grab some stocks at low prices but jury still out if the market will turn even lower.
 

Majestic12

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To be honest, I didn't invest much during the last GFC. My two good trades were my current home and an investment property which I bought and sold. I have been bearish since 2012 and only started investing mid 2015 when markets started coming off. It however has been a painful ride as I probably bought in too early in the downtrend (I underestimated the magnitude of the down move).

My main consolation is that I am relatively debt free so I should be able to ride through this downturn without risks of having to liquidate any assets due to any liquidity issues.

Here's a tip: you don't want to buy when the market is falling. You buy when the upswing cycle is just about to start. Obviously this is easier said than done and hence the need for experience and luck (yes).

I've seen enough charts and analysed enough data to conclude that the next two to three years will be rough for assets. It's just time. In a deflationary environment the purchasing power of cash increases as liquidity is vacuumed from the system.
 
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Shiny Things

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Firstly you are too optimistic about the expenses. Mine is about 100K. Secondly it's unrealistic to assume 9% return consistently. Thirdly the salary comes with a high degree of risk in terms of job security. I reckon I will be retrenched at least 3 times in my career.

Also FB's a self-confessed troll. Don't give him too much oxygen.
 

orange_sky

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Here's a tip: you don't want to buy when the market is falling. You buy when the upswing cycle is just about to start. Obviously this is easier said than done and hence the need for experience and luck (yes).

I've seen enough charts and analysed enough data to conclude that the next two to three years will be rough for assets. It's just time. In a deflationary environment the purchasing power of cash increases as liquidity is vacuumed from the system.

Agree with you. Hence I set myself a moratorium till Jul this year before I buy anymore
 

Jwlng

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50% in bonds and 50% in equities would be good bets. When the market hits bottom, then transfer the bonds into equities. If your investment horizon is 5 years or more. China and Oil will be good to get into.
 

limster

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50% in bonds and 50% in equities would be good bets. When the market hits bottom, then transfer the bonds into equities.

Why not 100% bonds and 0% in equities. When the market hits bottom, then transfer the bonds into equities.

I think the return will be double. =:p
 

Jwlng

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Why not 100% bonds and 0% in equities. When the market hits bottom, then transfer the bonds into equities.

I think the return will be double. =:p

A lot depends on the risk appetite and investment horizon. That would be the most conservative option. But if you do not have the risk appetite to put 50% of your money in equities now, what makes you think you will put all your money when you think market has hit bottom? :)
 

frenchbriefs

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Why not 100% bonds and 0% in equities. When the market hits bottom, then transfer the bonds into equities.

I think the return will be double. =:p

u cannot predict the future 100 percent all the time,who knows if equities outperform and bonds tank for the next few years?

ultimately u have to take the long term expected return of the investment and ask urself is that what u want.some people might think its smart to be 100 percent in bonds,but thats what they will get,in the long run we talking 20,30 years, bonds only return on average 3 percent before inflation,thats the best u can ever hope for.u want safety u get peanuts,u want big returns u gotta take the risks.
 
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Majestic12

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Agree with you. Hence I set myself a moratorium till Jul this year before I buy anymore

Setting a specific month is market-risky as the movements of financial markets is not month-dependent.

Thank you for heeding my call. Two months ago I was calling for a top in USDSGD based on the technical chart. Last month I advised a few banker friends to look at creating equity linked structured notes with Knock Outs for gold mining counters - say Barrick Gold, Newmont Mining, etc.

As you can see from the posts shared in this forum, investor sentiment is still too bullish for a major turning point to be reached. Since investor behaviour has been conditioned to buy the dip over the last six years, most investors fail to realise that this strategy does not work when the Fed is tightening and when the credit cycle has already peaked and turned. Credit anticipates - equity confirms.
 

frenchbriefs

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Setting a specific month is market-risky as the movements of financial markets is not month-dependent.

Thank you for heeding my call. Two months ago I was calling for a top in USDSGD based on the technical chart. Last month I advised a few banker friends to look at creating equity linked structured notes with Knock Outs for gold mining counters - say Barrick Gold, Newmont Mining, etc.

As you can see from the posts shared in this forum, investor sentiment is still too bullish for a major turning point to be reached. Since investor behaviour has been conditioned to buy the dip over the last six years, most investors fail to realise that this strategy does not work when the Fed is tightening and when the credit cycle has already peaked and turned. Credit anticipates - equity confirms.

so what u are saying the six year bull run is finally over?
 
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