[discussion] Encouraging locals to be in service industry

[MisterLim001]

What measures can be implemented or what can be done to encouraged locals to be interested in service industry? Besides increasing pay (which can calculated), what can be done to increase people to take pride (which is not contified) in service industry?

Also, why is the reality show, Can you Serve? not shown anymore? It has only 2 seasons.....

Can You Serve Season 2: Episode 1 - YouTube

 

[bukitimah]

Most jobs are service related. Just whether you are front line or back of the house. If you attend any basic course, they will tell you to identify your stake holders, which are also your customers.

If everyone love to be the CEO although he is technically also a service provider and not the cleaner, their difference is mainly pay and that itself also come with respect.

Our front line service providers are paid too low and we are waiting for market for Ed to take its natural course to make the adjustment. Then, we must be realistic and wait patiently till that day come along. You can't keep and eat the same cake.

 

[MisterLim001]

Most jobs are service related. Just whether you are front line or back of the house. If you attend any basic course, they will tell you to identify your stake holders, which are also your customers.

If everyone love to be the CEO although he is technically also a service provider and not the cleaner, their difference is mainly pay and that itself also come with respect.

Our front line service providers are paid too low and we are waiting for market for Ed to take its natural course to make the adjustment. Then, we must be realistic and wait patiently till that day come along. You can't keep and eat the same cake.

My question is how society should do to motivate people to take up service jobs and what employers should do in quantitative and qualitative measures for sinkies to take up service jobs like hotel or restaurant jobs.

 

[bukitimah]

I know and that is the same tune sang over and over again. The magical words 'innovative', productivities, technology, higher skill, etc. were preached.

All talk and the providers still need to drink water. Why aren't the top guns doing just that? Minimum wages is required to ensure there are people to consider service jobs. Acting minister for MOM also acknowledged that certain professions command higher pay than others. It is all about perception Eddie supply and demand. We need to make changes but those holding that advantage must be ready.

 

[cancer81]

front line sales work pays pretty decently with commission factored in...

some employers do try to pay their staff better but this has to be tampered with business volume, venue and other overheads.

paying more salary when rent and other overheads keep increasing while charging customers the same amount is not going to make business sense.

add in the generally bad attitude paying and non-paying customers have towards service staff... True Blue Sinkie Pride says, "No amt of money can change anything"

 

[MisterLim001]

I know and that is the same tune sang over and over again. The magical words 'innovative', productivities, technology, higher skill, etc. were preached.

All talk and the providers still need to drink water. Why aren't the top guns doing just that? Minimum wages is required to ensure there are people to consider service jobs. Acting minister for MOM also acknowledged that certain professions command higher pay than others. It is all about perception Eddie supply and demand. We need to make changes but those holding that advantage must be ready.

I agree that minimum wage need to imposed for service staff. 5 star hotels offer $900 to $1100 for front-desk employees....

front line sales work pays pretty decently with commission factored in...

some employers do try to pay their staff better but this has to be tampered with business volume, venue and other overheads.

paying more salary when rent and other overheads keep increasing while charging customers the same amount is not going to make business sense.

add in the generally bad attitude paying and non-paying customers have towards service staff... True Blue Sinkie Pride says, "No amt of money can change anything"

Sales staff yes....but what about front desk, F&B employees? No....not even tipping

 

[sunzoner]

The problem is as always - pay. Since the pay is so low, there is no 'dignity' in it.

You want 5 star service? Pay 5 star wages loh.

 

[MisterLim001]

The problem is as always - pay. Since the pay is so low, there is no 'dignity' in it.

You want 5 star service? Pay 5 star wages loh.

Biz would say costs would rise and would pass the buck to customers. You want?

 

[alvinaloy]

Biz would say costs would rise and would pass the buck to customers. You want?

I'm of the opinion that small businesses suffer the most; profit margins are already lean and the costs have to be passed to the consumers. Large businesses jump onto the band wagon with the small businesses; complaining about rising costs and wanting to pass it to consumers too, when they are making obscene profits.

Though that being said, the Government needs to examine what costs these are and help where they can. It was mentioned in some other threads that labour costs are but only 1 of the factors (not the major factor too). I would think that rental costs have been escalating and something should be done to rein it in. But that's a separate discussion.

 

[bukitimah]

front line sales work pays pretty decently with commission factored in...

some employers do try to pay their staff better but this has to be tampered with business volume, venue and other overheads.

paying more salary when rent and other overheads keep increasing while charging customers the same amount is not going to make business sense.

add in the generally bad attitude paying and non-paying customers have towards service staff... True Blue Sinkie Pride says, "No amt of money can change anything"

I disagree with you that business main cost is labour. In today's context beside manufacturing, it is rent and that component takes up almost 30% if not more of the operating cost.

The other assumption that nobody is willing to work even if you pay more is also not correct. When you say pay more, I am quite sure you are referring to paying slightly more than the current pay. Already they are paid well below the minim wages, when you go by percentage increase, it is still not attractive. Why would people come from far away to work here in service industry?

Sad that we always take gross pay without considering the number of hours clocked in to achieve those salary. The answer is easily available by checking checking out with that person rather than his employer!

 

[Jarlaxle]

I disagree with you that business main cost is labour. In today's context beside manufacturing, it is rent and that component takes up almost 30% if not more of the operating cost.

The other assumption that nobody is willing to work even if you pay more is also not correct. When you say pay more, I am quite sure you are referring to paying slightly more than the current pay. Already they are paid well below the minim wages, when you go by percentage increase, it is still not attractive. Why would people come from far away to work here in service industry?

Sad that we always take gross pay without considering the number of hours clocked in to achieve those salary. The answer is easily available by checking checking out with that person rather than his employer!

i agree that labor cost is not the highest cost. unless its in a labor intensive industry such as manufacturing.
if we go and read the financial statements of companies, if u deduct away the top mgmt salary which is declared in the same document.
im sure the employee expenses is definitely less than other expenses

however, stuff such as rental, interest rate, utilities and some other expenses are dictated by market forces or a derivative of market forces.

the company does not complain that becoz it knows that the govt's hands are tied.

thus, labor cost is the only one that they can squeeze
ultimately, the mgmt is only doing wat a typical shareholder wants.

 

[evolute8]

bookmarked.

 

[cancer81]

minimum wages? We have minimum wage legislation??

We are going to count places like Black Angus in or out? A friend of mine used to work there, not much in terms of prospects. Prospects is another thing, standing behind a counter and serving people coffee/waffles is not exactly a career for any self-loving Sinkie... IF employer pay you 3K and you get that 3K till kingdom come most likely...

I had several chats with a cafe operator. Running something like a Ya Kun branch can be quite ugly in terms of numbers.

say you got 10 tables that seats 2-3 comfortably.
that means full house is like 30 ppl, requiring abt 4 staff behind the counter.

assume each person has a kopi at 1.50 each. minus cost say you got 50 cent profit.

the problem starts when the 30 ppl seat there for an hour and half... paying for the power for lights and aircon is going to eat up that profit...

but hey... business owners dun need to make a living one... all fat cats all of them

 

[Jarlaxle]

i think the only unfair assumption is
1) 50 profit
2) only ordered drink
3) did not include takeaway
4) and no one leaves

not that the assumptions are not valid but they r too extreme lol.
but i guess we can also include off peak period like 3pm.
well, theres no end to it.
my only conclusion is, they are not closing down and new ones keep coming up at new malls. i dun think the situation is that bad.

its quite common that aircon is being played around to drive ppl out tho. to push table turnover rate.

 

[runforyourlife]

They must pay me as high as a manager and treat me the same way they treat a mgr. Else dont bother.

Ground ops is always seen as inferior.

 

[HeypiCanOredi]

I would say to give the sales staff more decision making autonomy e.g. empower them to give discounts to retain regular customers etc. Provide them with better welfare, e.g. bus service back home if they work late.

 

[cancer81]

i think the only unfair assumption is
1) 50 profit
2) only ordered drink
3) did not include takeaway
4) and no one leaves

not that the assumptions are not valid but they r too extreme lol.
but i guess we can also include off peak period like 3pm.
well, theres no end to it.
my only conclusion is, they are not closing down and new ones keep coming up at new malls. i dun think the situation is that bad.

its quite common that aircon is being played around to drive ppl out tho. to push table turnover rate.

takeaway is supreme in terms of profit margins...

which is why I keep saying do standing room, eat n run establishments

 

[cancer81]

the other problem I see is that malls do not see tenants as partners. They see them as income sources.

So when your lease is up, the mall makes you bid with other potential tenants. The chains muscle in and they can make ends meet with their bigger stock in take and overall larger clientele.

it is horrible for small businesses to make it. you want to try your hand at F&B? better find a small place to start. SHopping malls are not for you hon

 

[cherry6]

The Phantom Singaporean Worker, another MOM Frankenstein invention?

The Phantom Singaporean Worker, another MOM Frankenstein invention?

Source thread: [discussion]: Encouraging locals to be in service industry
What measures can be implemented or what can be done to encouraged locals to be interested in service industry? Besides increasing pay (which can calculated), what can be done to increase people to take pride (which is not continued) in service industry?
Also, why is the reality show, Can you Serve? not shown anymore? It has only 2 seasons.....
Can You Serve Season 2: Episode 1 - YouTube

MOM news/ image source
I say turn the foreign worker levy scheme (FWLS) into a COE bidding scheme with half of ALL proceeds divided equally into Singaporean's CPF training account. The money being usable for studies (or medicare etc if the person is aged/sick).

This is because the low wage foreigner biased FWLS, which imposes levy on only low paid foreign workers has 2 very bad long term effects.

Firstly, it give low wage Singaporeans easy money for almost no work, an embarrassment really, since employers hire these low wage Singaporeans mainly to just as seat warmers so as to hit the quota sufficient to employ a required number of foreign workers to get the job done. Even the low wage foreigners look down on the low wage Singaporeans due to this biased treatment consequent of stupid government policy. These poor Singaporeans also remain untrained since little training is necessary to accomplish their task of keeping seats warm- indeed, the low wage Singaporean profession has become that of a phantom worker.

The low wage Singaporeans also find it difficult and discouraging to get promoted into managerial positions since at the blink of the eye, having crossed some salary threshold, the employer is now able to easily replace the Singaporean with a foreign talent either because the levy payable is little or absent for higher paid foreigner employees.

The end result of all this is that we have a persistently increasing pool of low wage workers doing nothing except full/ part time seat warming- phantom work is now only solution available to Ministry of Manpower (MOM) Inc.- it now seems.

A universal COE like FWLS could be a large source of funding for worker training, financial support etc for Singaporeans, however, in its desperation to build up the finance/ banking sector in Singapore (banks hire many foreigner con-men who are paid well to bet against their own clients), alongside the MOM pen pushers, desperate to justify their purchase of 472 cushy S$575 chairs 'Designer chairs for MOM staff' [Mypaper,25Mar2011] have only perpetuated this ballyhoo-fool's errand- ostensibly to give poorer Singaporeans work to do. Yet all that they have seem to come up with is the 'prestigious' job of seat warming!

But while the short term policy of phantom work has certainly satisfied the government need for statistical publication and manipulation, what is the government to do now that the average phantom Singaporean worker has since become the original laughing stock of all foreigners in Singapore, if not round the world?

Singaporeans do not need a phantom government to create more phantom workers out of poorly funded and thus poorly schooled Singaporeans. Singaporeans want real training for jobs that really contribute, for jobs that make the world a better place- not jobs that make them seat warmers for foreign talent to carry on. An effective scheme like GST, coloured with the profitability from rationed supply like the COE scheme for cars will certainly pay good returns for Singaporeans to get properly cared for and schooled.

To achieve that, the levy waiver for employment passes (EP) foreigners (especially PMET ones) will have to end, and the phantom Singaporean worker of today will have to trained to really impact/ improve the world. Yes many pen-pushers at MOM might be made redundant, but they must be the original phantom workers who began this infectious domino of structural unemployment here in the very first place!

Just as NS for PRs CANNOT be moneytised (see Video: Hri Kumar vs Ng Eng Hen), neither can the foreign worker levy requirement for well paid foreigners (EP, SP etc) be waived.

Yes, I know that there are poor and sickly Singaporeans (/ those with young kids) who need the assistance of foreign domestic workers (FDW), but like GST, everything that moves can be taxed. Just as compensatory GST rebates are given, the more needy can receive more. A foreigner is a foreigner, just call a spade a spade- no more illogical permutations please.

In conclusion:
More for a new CPF 'training fund', with equal cash injections to all Singaporeans; equal levy for all foreigners regardless of occupation, not just the lowly paid ones and less pen pushers at MOM please.

Real proper CPF based training fund accounts for upgrading Singaporean workers, no more phantom/ Frankenstein jobs and policies please.
-----------------
Cartoon: Thin Black boy: "I'm Hungry"; Fat White man:"Stop talking politics":

In return for the "first class political leadership", we pay our leaders very well:

Tags: Employment, labour, unemployment, MOM, Singapore, structural, economics, CPF, levy, government, tax, training, contract, welfare,

 

[Jarlaxle]

They must pay me as high as a manager and treat me the same way they treat a mgr. Else dont bother.

Ground ops is always seen as inferior.

but u know that ground ops is always more superior in experience right?