*Official* Shiny Things club - Part 2

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chenghui

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Hello experts!

After reading the first and the third edition of the book recently, I wanted to start by getting the MBKE MIP. But as some as posted, the MIP is not available anymore. In this case, would it be possible to still buy ES3 and MBH with MBKE manually each month instead? The charges for the Prefunded Trade account seems to be 0.12% with a minimum of $10, and with the usual clearing fee and SGX trading fee.

Alternatively, should I just go for Standard Chartered to get ES3 and MBH instead? The brokerage rate for SGX is 0.20%, with a minimum brokerage amount of $10. This seems to be lower thank MBKE's Prefunded Trade account after factoring in the clearing fee and SGX trading fee.

After looking at the above, I am planning to push the investment amount per month to about $1k. I currently have POSB Invest Saver for 2 years (at $200/mth) on G3B. Thanks!
 
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BBCWatcher

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You can get 3% pa for USD FD from ICBC (not DBS).
ICBC Singapore is currently publicly advertising 2.95% on a 12 month U.S. dollar fixed deposit....

....But WTF? That's a placement of an alien currency at a small, completely unprotected outpost of a bank based in the world's largest questionable credit market (and not U.S. dollarized). You should be getting compensated at least 2.95%/year for such a placement. There's some risk in it.

I have faith in SG Gov, MAS, and hence SG banks that even if IB had fallen they would be standing.
Sugarbun, I don't think you understand. The Singapore government is telling you, repeatedly, very clearly and very carefully, that foreign currency deposits in Singapore are completely unprotected and uninsured. There is no regulatory role here -- this government is most explicit in making sure that you and other depositors understand you're on your own if/when there's any bank wobble or collapse. And Singapore is one of the most loosely financially regulated developed economies in the world. That's Singapore's attraction, for some.

Don't forget that IB is a brokerage & all around the world, banks are much more strictly regulated & enforced than brokerages.
The brokerage is simply facilitating your investment in particular assets, which could include (for example) U.S. Treasuries, the world's #1 safest place to park U.S. dollars in any amount, from US$100 to US$billions, backed by the full faith and credit of the U.S. government -- the government that issues this particular fiat currency.

There is absolutely no comparison in terms of risk. I'm going to use a word I don't often use, but frankly you're nuts if you think that U.S. dollars parked at ICBC Singapore are in any way comparable in terms of safety to U.S. Treasuries.

If you don't like U.S. Treasuries, you can consider brokered U.S. Certificates of Deposits, 100% FDIC (U.S. federal government) insured up to US$250,000 per placement (and SDIC coverage wrapped around that).

Once IB fallen, even with FDIC etc your money & stocks will all stuck for 3 years or even more.
No, not correct. Below SDIC limits there's no "stuck." ICBC Singapore there's most definitely stuck, irretrievably so since nobody's coming to help.

The absolute worst case ever was MF Global, and every MF Global account holder was made whole at fair market value. Every single one, even above SDIC coverage limits. It was the account holders with assets above SDIC coverage limits that had to wait a fairly long time for recovery, but they were all made whole.

SDIC covers up to US$500,000 in securities positions with a sublimit of up to US$250,000 in cash holdings, in any currencies. At or below those limits and you're extremely well protected, and those checks are cut very quickly. This is U.S. government protection. There is no SDIC, FDIC, U.S. Treasury, MAS, Singapore government, or anybody else that'll save your U.S. dollars at any Singapore bank. Absolutely zero protection.

I rather diversify my money in a few banks than put all my money in IB.
There is some good sense in diversifying across custodians, particularly when you have strong government insurance working for you. How about Schwab? Schwab also offers brokered CDs and U.S. Treasuries, as examples. Between Schwab and IB you have US$1 million in SDIC protection (US$500K at each).
 
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tangent314

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Hello experts!

After reading the first and the third edition of the book recently, I wanted to start by getting the MBKE MIP. But as some as posted, the MIP is not available anymore. In this case, would it be possible to still buy ES3 and MBH with MBKE manually each month instead? The charges for the Prefunded Trade account seems to be 0.12% with a minimum of $10, and with the usual clearing fee and SGX trading fee.

Alternatively, should I just go for Standard Chartered to get ES3 and MBH instead? The brokerage rate for SGX is 0.20%, with a minimum brokerage amount of $10. This seems to be lower thank MBKE's Prefunded Trade account after factoring in the clearing fee and SGX trading fee.

After looking at the above, I am planning to push the investment amount per month to about $1k. I currently have POSB Invest Saver for 2 years (at $200/mth) on G3B. Thanks!

As long as you remain under $1000 it makes sense to just use POSB-IS and purchase G3B.

Another option you may want to look at is POEMS Share Builders Plan, which you may be able to do $6.42 for under $1000

Another possibility would be to RSP the money into a cheap unit trust like Lion Global All Seasons (Growth), then redeeming to purchase ETFs once you have accumulated a reasonable amount.
 

BBCWatcher

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MF Global? It was in the news that after 3 years Singaporeans still haven't get back all money.
Every MF Global account holder got back every penny, at fair market value. Including every penny above SIPC limits.

You're comparing full but (above/outside SIPC coverage limits) delayed recovery with zero/never recovery? Really? Seriously? You've got to be kidding. This makes absolutely no sense.

You've picked the absolute worst case situation (account holders that had account holdings above/outside SIPC coverage) at a failed brokerage...who eventually recovered even every penny at FMV that wasn't SIPC covered. Something that will never happen if ICBC Singapore (for example) were to fail, because there is no SIPC or anything even remotely comparable. ICBC has to offer 2.95% precisely because there's material risk here. (Or do you think they're running a charity?)

You can take risk if you wish, but you're seriously deluding yourself if you think parking U.S. dollars at ICBC Singapore is at all comparable in risk to, say, U.S. Treasuries via IB or via any other SIPC covered broker. That's literally insane in financial terms.

Schwab Singapore? Was OptionXpress Singapore right?
No, not really. Schwab acquired OptionsXpress but then eventually sunset OptionsXpress's separate operations and platform. At this point Schwab has only inherited OptionsXpress customers who chose to stay with Schwab. The offerings, management, etc. are all Schwab.
 
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MultiSystemAtrophy

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Sorry guys stupid question.

I have 5 lots of ES3 which i bought on SCB. Where does the dividend go ar?
It doesnt show on my CDP summary obviously. Most of my ES3 are on poems.
And also i haven't been keeping track of my SCB securities SGD or my esaver account for that particularly, so i don't recall where the dividend $ should have went in February....
 

tangent314

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Sorry guys stupid question.

I have 5 lots of ES3 which i bought on SCB. Where does the dividend go ar?
It doesnt show on my CDP summary obviously. Most of my ES3 are on poems.
And also i haven't been keeping track of my SCB securities SGD or my esaver account for that particularly, so i don't recall where the dividend $ should have went in February....


It goes into your SCB Securities Settlement Account
 

Helicopter

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Hi BBCWatcher

As a person working overseas and earning in USD, how would you recommend we handle our pay?

Currently I do bank into my BOC account. What's a better alternative?

Also, does it make sense of a non-US citizen to buy US treasuries? We have to pay tax on it right?
 

Shiny Things

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As a person working overseas and earning in USD, how would you recommend we handle our pay? Currently I do bank into my BOC account. What's a better alternative?
I'll defer to BBCW on this, but which "overseas" are you in? If you're working in the USA, you should open a US bank account.

Also, does it make sense of a non-US citizen to buy US treasuries? We have to pay tax on it right?

The question would be "what are you trying to do with your money?". What are you saving for?

Serious you don't know ICBC well? It is the largest bank in the world & backed by China Gov.
I would bet IB & Schwab would have disappeared & ICBC would still be there.

I have faith in SG Gov, MAS, and hence SG banks that even if IB had fallen they would be standing. Don't forget that IB is a brokerage & all around the world, banks are much more strictly regulated & enforced than brokerages.
Once IB fallen, even with FDIC etc your money & stocks will all stuck for 3 years or even more.
I rather diversify my money in a few banks than put all my money in IB.

Also if you in DBS Treasures you can call RM for much better rate than 0.65% (last time i did was just 0.3% spread). when i move USD from 1 SG bank to another, there is 0 cost (unlike USD from IB & to IB - which clearly shows this is IB problem). When you can move your USD or SGD around, you get more & better choices of investments, not stuck in 1 place (eg just IB).

Because your friends did not understand & practise what is in these 2 books:
1) The Intelligent Investor
2) Common stocks uncommon profits

Warren Buffett said he benefited greatly from these 2 books, main reason for his investing success & high returns.

Sugarbun, you're kind of tying yourself up in knots here, and you're saying stuff that's not true.

Firstly, you say you'd "rather diversify your money in a few banks than put all your money in IB". IB lets you do that! They can sweep your USD cash into FDIC-insured banks, so you don't have to leave your money with IB if you don't want to.

And FDIC-insured deposits take a weekend to recover; "three years" is just wildly wrong. This literally happened to BBCW; they told the story a few posts back. they had deposits at a US bank that collapsed; the FDIC moved in on the Friday, moved the insured deposits to a new bank, and the accounts were back open on Monday.

And BBCW is exactly right that by keeping USD in Singaporean banks you have zero insurance coverage. You have no FDIC coverage, no Singaporean deposit insurance. If the bank goes down you have nothing.

Did you stop to think about the reason you can get a 3% USD FD rate at ICBC? The only reason a bank pays an above-market rate on FDs is because they're desperate for the money. ICBC is desperate for long-term USD deposits for whatever reason; that's why they're paying up. And the fact that a Singaporean bank is thirsty for USD cash - when Singaporean banks are usually bursting at the gills with deposits and desperate to lend them out - is a bit of a worry.

You're bragging about getting a 0.3% spread from DBS Treasures, but the spread at Interactive is 0.01% - one-thirtieth of what you're getting by sweet-talking your RM at DBS. They're taking advantage of you.

And let's talk about the Buffett thing. If all it took to be Warren Buffett was these two books and a vicious Cherry Coke habit, then we'd all be Warren Buffett.

Uncle Wozza has two other huge advantages that the rest of us will never have:
1) A giant wholly-owned insurance business (Geico) with a multi-hundred-billion-dollar cash float that he can use to invest in other investments; and,
2) He started investing in the 1950s, when nobody had figured out value investing, markets were way more inefficient, and cheap valuable stocks were much more widely available. Nowadays P/E and P/B screening tools are a dime a dozen and every mug with a pirated PDF of Margin of Safety thinks they're a value investor, so actual "value" investments tend to get bought up before they get to genuine "value" territory.

Frankly mate BBCW is right and you're a bit out over your skis. I understand that you trust Singaporean and Chinese banks not to fail, but a) you're wrong; and b) the question is not "will they fail", it's "what happens when they fail"; and the answer to that question is a lot happier when your cash is at a US bank or broker.

Alternatively, should I just go for Standard Chartered to get ES3 and MBH instead? The brokerage rate for SGX is 0.20%, with a minimum brokerage amount of $10.
After looking at the above, I am planning to push the investment amount per month to about $1k. I currently have POSB Invest Saver for 2 years (at $200/mth) on G3B. Thanks!

If you're investing $1k a month anyway, then "Stanchart for local stocks, IBKR for global stocks" is the right choice. Go for it.

Anyone thoughts of moneyowl, a new online platform by NTUC? Apparently you can do a low rsp of $100 per month and buy into low cost dimensions fund advisor (DFA) funds.

However they charge a 0.65%p.a. And 0.18% platform fee by iFast. Totalled 0.83% exclude funds fees.
Orrrrrr you could use POSB Invest-Saver, and not lose nearly 1% a year to platform fees.

I recently bought the third edition of ST’s book and realised that instead of A35, he has been recommending MBH instead. What is the difference between A35 and MBH, and what should I do going forward? Stop buying A35 and buy MBH instead? Do I need to sell my existing A35 shareholding?
So here's the deal.

MBH is an alternative to A35. A35 is still perfectly good; you don't need to sell what you own; MBH is just better (because it yields a fair bit more for very little more risk).

However... the cheapest way to buy MBH used to be through MBKE MIP, but as you've probably seen upthread they pulled the ejector seat a few days ago and the MIP is no longer a thing. So, if you're investing under about $1000 a month, the cheapest way to invest is still POSB Invest-Saver, which only offers A35.

Also you're not on a typewriter, you don't need to put two spaces after a full stop.

Separately, in terms of rebalancing your portfolio every 6 months, can I clarify that you use the exchange currency rate as at the date that you rebalance for your calculations (as opposed to using the exchange currency rate the day you bought the stock)? E.g. if I buy IWDA when the exchange rate is US$1=S$1.4, and the exchange rate now when I want to do the rebalancing is US$1=S$1.35 – I should use the S$1.35 to rebalance?
Yep, you're absolutely right.
 
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Shiny Things

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What are trading hours ? Is it the US trading hours or SG trading hours ?

Oh hey, I missed this.

Foreign exchange market hours are from 7am Auckland on Monday morning (the New Zealand open), to 5pm NYC on Friday afternoon (the US close).

And yes, the 7am Monday Auckland open does mean that there are traders on the desk in Singapore at 2am every Monday morning.

I reckon if you polled Singaporean FX dealers you'd find 100% support for letting New Zealand fall into the sea.
 
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revhappy

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I reckon if you polled Singaporean FX dealers you'd find 100% support for letting New Zealand fall into the sea.

Lol! Singapore chose the wrong timezone. Physically it is much closer to Thailand than Japan. Yet Singapore is only 1hr behind Japan and 1 hr ahead of Thailand.

Singapore has gone and aligned it's timezone with Perth, think about about it how far away is Perth.

I wake up at 7 in the morning and actually it is supposed to be 6!

So those FX traders actually start at 1Am Lol.
 

BBCWatcher

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Did you stop to think about the reason you can get a 3% USD FD rate at ICBC?
2.95% actually, and that’s with a “backflip” involved (must be opened online).

The only reason a bank pays an above-market rate on FDs is because they're desperate for the money. ICBC is desperate for long-term USD deposits for whatever reason; that's why they're paying up. And the fact that a Singaporean bank is thirsty for USD cash - when Singaporean banks are usually bursting at the gills with deposits and desperate to lend them out - is a bit of a worry.
The Wall Street Journal explains why here.

I would also point out that ICBC Singapore is not ICBC. If/when ICBC (China) runs into some problems, its management in Beijing would not hesitate to cut loose its tiny Singapore outpost if that meant they could save the mother ship. In a heartbeat; it’d be the easiest crisis decision ever. And there’s nobody to stop them or to protect foreign currency depositors in Singapore. (SDIC will defend S$75,000 per depositor, Singapore dollars only.)

Sensible, rational people understand all this and have done at least some homework, which is why ICBC Singapore has to pay up to 2.95% to compensate depositors for these material risks. “Just look at the yield.”

You can still benefit from the Chinese banks’ frantic desires to vacuum up U.S. dollars without taking this risk of losing every dollar in a completely uninsured deposit. I’ve seen BOC New York pop up from time to time in the list of highest yielding brokered U.S. Certificates of Deposit (CDs), except those CDs are FDIC insured. Practically all U.S. brokers offer brokered CDs, including Schwab.

It’s utter madness that some of the same people worried about the “trade war” between the U.S. and China, who decide they want to hide in a corner from stock markets, then want to entrust their idle U.S. dollars to a tiny foreign, fully severable outpost of a Chinese bank with zero deposit insurance. Crazy!

So, if you're investing under about $1000 a month, the cheapest way to invest is still POSB Invest-Saver, which only offers A35.
The cheapest way is actually Singapore Savings Bonds (SSBs). You knock out the middlemen (Nikko AM Shenton, DBS/POSB) and eliminate the management fee, you can swap fairly easily and with full capital protection if interest rates go up materially, and you can do all of that for mere $2 transaction fees. I don’t see any added value whatsoever to A35 unless and until you’ve reached the $200,000 SSB holding limit, which is a big wad of SSBs and would take a long time to get to at $1,000/month.
 
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Asphodeli

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As long as you remain under $1000 it makes sense to just use POSB-IS and purchase G3B.

Another option you may want to look at is POEMS Share Builders Plan, which you may be able to do $6.42 for under $1000

Another possibility would be to RSP the money into a cheap unit trust like Lion Global All Seasons (Growth), then redeeming to purchase ETFs once you have accumulated a reasonable amount.

POEMS will eat you alive with dividend handling fees. POSB InvestSaver is the next best if you want to buy the market. Otherwise, go with OCBC BCIP for individual counters.

Posted from PCWX using XT1635-03
 
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FrostWurm

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It’s utter madness that some of the same people worried about the “trade war” between the U.S. and China, who decide they want to hide in a corner from stock markets, then want to entrust their idle U.S. dollars to a tiny foreign, fully severable outpost of a Chinese bank with zero deposit insurance. Crazy!

It is neither crazy nor mad.

After all, not only do people have different risk appetites, they also arrive at different conclusions from their analysis of any given situation. Indeed, some of us buy excessive insurance, while others decide to be self-insured.

ICBC is a very large bank in China (perhaps the largest in the world by assets), and while the possibility must never be ignored, it is quite inconceivable that their Singapore branch would, for no apparent reason, go bust in 12 months, even if there is an intensification of the trade war.

It is easy to dismiss any higher yielding investment as being a bad investment. But there will always be investors who, after careful appraisal of the situation, find it an acceptable risk relative to the reward.

Many minds make a market! :s12:
 

ChinoGirl

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Hi everyone,

I am 38 years old and not a DIY investor and has always left my investments to my friend. But I realise that my portfolio isn't going anywhere, and it is better to be hands-on for your own financial future. I need advice from members and understand that the final decision is up to myself. Time for some spring cleaning!

I have been reading up on the 3-fund portfolio and am thinking of liquidating the cash account at Aviva to DIY.

1) Aviva Global Savings Account

- inception date is 20 Sepember 2010

- payment frequency is SGD250/month

- funds are since inception of account are BlackRock Global Funds - Latin American A2 Fund US, and BlackRock Global Funds - World Gold A2 Fund USD

- premium end date is 20 September 2035

- As of 29 May 2019, the total premiums paid is SGD26,250.00 and investment value is sgd21,213.8. I have asked my friend to let me know how much I will get back if I liquidate this account as there will be penalty charges =(

Questions:

1a) Should I surrender this account entirely? Or switch it to other funds offered under Aviva Global Savings? I do not mind lower returns (is 1% too much to ask for?but it does not beat inflation) less fund management fees etc.

1b) If the suggestion is to switch to other funds on offer under Aviva Global Savings Account, what would be your suggestions and the reason(s) for the selected funds (for my understanding and learning).

2) Aviva Navigator cash account

-inception date is 30 Dec 2008

-was in growth portfolio until mid of last year when I asked to switch to Balanced portfolio

- am not charged an advisory fee/wrap fee by my friend, but believe there may be a platform fee incurred for using the Aviva Navigator platform, and of course the usual fund management fees etc which are also gnawing at my returns.

- initial lump sum of cash investment was SGD28,000 and the current value is at SGD39,700. No further contribution.

-no penalty for terminating account

3) CPF-SA

- I have terminated the investments last year with a loss of SGD854.20 (15.12%). Had some greens but after that it was red for as long as I can recall. Seeing that the past few years has been a bull run………



4) CPF-OA

- current value as of 29 May 2019 is 23,742.07, with a loss of -7.14%. Had some greens but after that it was red for as long as I can recall. Thinking of terminating this too.

-was in growth portfolio until mid of last year when I asked to switch to Balanced portfolio.

Appreciate it if you could advise this newbie. Thank you very much! Have a lot to learn.
 

vegavega25

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To wade into the whole holding US$ in Singapore debate, here is another data point: https://www.sc.com/sg/save/savings-accounts/usdsaver/

Standard Chartered offers 2% on US bank account balances above US$50K, and even dangles a 3% rate on balances above US$300K!

Do they qualify as a small foreign outpost of a UK bank?

Given the basics: no insurance on US$ deposits in Singapore, should one worry about SCB the same way that one could worry about an ICBC?

And seriously, what gives? Is the idea basically that someone who can keep US$300K in a bank account in Singapore can simply move it out in a matter of seconds the moment **** starts to hit the fan and isn't the sort of person who pays any attention to [laughably low] deposit insurance?
 

chopra

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To wade into the whole holding US$ in Singapore debate, here is another data point: https://www.sc.com/sg/save/savings-accounts/usdsaver/

Standard Chartered offers 2% on US bank account balances above US$50K, and even dangles a 3% rate on balances above US$300K!

Do they qualify as a small foreign outpost of a UK bank?

Given the basics: no insurance on US$ deposits in Singapore, should one worry about SCB the same way that one could worry about an ICBC?

And seriously, what gives? Is the idea basically that someone who can keep US$300K in a bank account in Singapore can simply move it out in a matter of seconds the moment **** starts to hit the fan and isn't the sort of person who pays any attention to [laughably low] deposit insurance?
lets do an apple to apple.
can we find something similar in ib?
1. scb/icbc will charge higher forex spread.
2. incoming processing fee, if any.
 

BBCWatcher

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We are now getting really, really deep in derp.

Just read the news: SG has just been added to watch list for currency manipulation by USA!
Yes, along with Ireland, Italy, and Germany which don't even have their own currencies to manipulate.

And that'd be one more excellent reason not to park U.S. dollars at a bank in Singapore, which offers zero deposit insurance.

To wade into the whole holding US$ in Singapore debate, here is another data point: https://www.sc.com/sg/save/savings-accounts/usdsaver/

Standard Chartered offers 2% on US bank account balances above US$50K, and even dangles a 3% rate on balances above US$300K!
The first US$50,000 attracts 0.05%. Assuming you could get at least 2 percentage points more -- and you certainly can since even U.S. Treasuries are yielding >2.05% -- then what that means is Standard Chartered is charging a >US$1,000 fee per year if you're trying to chase the next interest tiers. All without deposit insurance.

Do they qualify as a small foreign outpost of a UK bank?
Yes, and the important part is that all foreign currency deposits in Singapore are completely uninsured. You can park unlimited quantities of U.S. dollars in safe or safest vehicles for comparable yields.

Given the basics: no insurance on US$ deposits in Singapore, should one worry about SCB the same way that one could worry about an ICBC?
Yes.

And seriously, what gives? Is the idea basically that someone who can keep US$300K in a bank account in Singapore can simply move it out in a matter of seconds the moment **** starts to hit the fan and isn't the sort of person who pays any attention to [laughably low] deposit insurance?
It'd be nice if banks gave advance warning of when they're going to fail, but that doesn't actually happen in the real world. What you're describing is called a "bank run," and bank runs actually cause banks to fail. And no, you cannot actually move US$300K in seconds from a fixed deposit. That's a branch visit, and (even if you are successful) with a stiff penalty. Even with electronic transfers, if they were even possible, there are no "seconds" here. There are hours, at best. There's no equivalent to FAST for U.S. dollars or for any other foreign currency.

lets do an apple to apple.
can we find something similar in ib?
1. scb/icbc will charge higher forex spread.
2. incoming processing fee, if any.
That's right. Banks in Singapore are free to extract their fees and commissions, and they often do.

No forex spread & no cost to deposit USD into ICBC & also withdrawing.
Which of course is not unique. Practically all U.S. financial institutions -- deposit insured institutions with access to full faith and credit sovereign instruments, mind you -- offer that.

I remember you get charged for depositing USD into IB right?
IB does not charge anything for deposits.

You also can't withdraw in USD from IB free of charge right?
Your first withdrawal per calendar month in any currency you wish in any amount is free of charge. IB charges nothing for that, not even for the wire transfer. If your receiving institution charges, that's all on them (and you).

You continue repeating falsehoods, and it's long past annoying.

IB can get 3% pa USD FD or not?
There is no 3% U.S. dollar fixed deposit offered in Singapore at present. ICBC is offering 2.95% but only if you open a fixed deposit with fresh funds online. How you do that with U.S. dollars is...a little interesting. Completely without deposit insurance, of course.

Got estate duty & taxes?
No estate duty & other fees to deposit USD in FD with ICBC.
There are no U.S. taxes of any sort for non-U.S. persons on U.S. Treasuries (directly held, not in fund form), U.S. bank deposits, U.S. credit union deposits, U.S. municipal bonds (directly held), and U.S. state bonds (directly held), as examples.

Temasek is the biggest shareholder of Std Chart right?
Who cares? Temasek has invested in plenty of now bankrupt companies, including Hyflux.

This is moronic, truly.

Hope nobody will say SC giving 3% FD rate because running out of USD.
Standard Chartered isn't offering 3% on any U.S. dollar fixed deposit. You're not telling the truth.
 
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chopra

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No forex spread & no cost to deposit USD into ICBC & also withdrawing.
I remember you get charged for depositing USD into IB right? You also can't withdraw in USD from IB free of charge right?
IB can get 3% pa USD FD or not? Got estate duty & taxes?
No estate duty & other fees to deposit USD in FD with ICBC.
can u repeat again?
u change sgd to usd at spot rate? at icbc?i don't believe.
 
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