Retiring before 40?

minamikaze

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Top 2% of wealthy 40-year-olds in order to retire sounds like a pretty tall order to reach - probably at least 5 million in total networth?
What monthly retirement income is this roughly based upon?

I was initially aiming for 2 million by 35, but having to make another 3 million by 40 would likely require taking too much risk in exchange for more returns.


No, I'm quite aware of how common they are. I repeatedly argue in favor of disability income insurance, in particular. CareShield Life will be a step forward, although it's not quite as much of a step forward as I'd like.

However, it's also true, simultaneously, that these and other ailments are less common at the same ages, today, than they were even 10 years ago. Singaporeans are statistically leading and living longer and healthier lives. That's just a basic fact, well documented. Singaporeans now have the world's second highest healthy lifespans, as it happens. So, while they still may be possible motivations for early retirement, they are statistically less common motivations than in the past.

No, it's really very simple: Singaporeans who want to retire early are doing it (if they're doing it) mostly because they can afford it more often than in the past. They're not doing it because they're sicker, or living shorter lives, or because work is tougher, or because 30-somethings are taking all their jobs. ALL of those problems are statistically less common now than they were in the past. It really isn't any more complicated than that. As wealth increases, some wealthy people choose to consume their wealth in the form of more leisure.

....But you still have to be rather wealthy to retire at 40. Within the top ~2% of wealthiest 40 year olds, probably. The financial math rapidly improves if you retire later rather than sooner, because you're closing any gap from both sides. If you're working and saving (which you should be in peak earning years), wealth is increasing, and retirement financial needs are decreasing. And, if the financial math is better, that can mean a more fabulous retirement with fewer financial worries when you eventually retire. On top of that, if you enjoy what you're doing professionally, that's even more fabulous.
 

VEF888

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I wont ask that question :)

Instead, I will ask, how much was your/your HH net worth when you decided to retire?



Irrelevant.

You will be surprised how little you need to live a fulfilling life.

People always complain about the high cost of living in Singapore,
but if you have a fully paid up roof over your head, takes public transport.
2K per pax a month is more than enough, all depends on the kind of lifestyle you
can live with.
 
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ocs_woodlands

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Irrelevant.

You will be surprised how little you need to live a fulfilling life.

People always complain about the high cost of living in Singapore,
but if you have a fully paid up roof over your head, takes public transport.
2K per pax a month is more than enough, all depends on the kind of lifestyle you
can live with.

My question is relevant.

Lemme explain:
To have a fully paid roof over a head/family''s head, one needs at least a decent 4/5 room flat. At a middling location eg bedok, that's about $500k.

Even 2k per pax is actually not a low threshold. Even for a couple with no kids and parents are no longer with them (no encumbrances), that's $48k per year.

With a combination of very safe stocks and SGS bonds, one can probably get about 3-3.5% yield.

Hence a couple of 2 pax would need at least 1.5m (using a yield of 3.25%) + 0.5m of net worth (and that's assuming somehow the cpf OA and SA''s interest can be touched/used)..

So my friend, net worth or more specifically the yield on yhe net worth is very important.

The only variation to this game is the 4% withdrawAl rule but for that version, one is supposed to pass on after 30 years in retirement.
 
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ocs_woodlands

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I would also like to share my own HH input on this.

I have calculated retirement for a few scenarios.all scenarios are for the HH NOT me and me only.

Scenario 1 - retire and stay in my HDB flat - will need about 2.5m.

Scenario 2 - retire and stay in my condo - will need about 3.3m

Scenario 3 - retire and stay in a yet to be bought landed property (I have very valid reasons to stay in one - not for vanity purposes) - will need about 4.8m

In the toughest case scenario, I have worked out that my HH should be able to hit it when I am at 56-57.

Work in a little bit of margin of error, I might retire at 60.

I am a conservative Asian so I don't use the 4%:withdrawal rule..

My retirement conundrum (besides the 3 optons above) is how to bridge between my HH retirement age and the CPF life payout age of 65... we have substantive cpf balances.
 
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havetheveryfun

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I would also like to share my own HH input on this.

I have calculated retirement for a few scenarios.all scenarios are for the HH NOT me and me only.

Scenario 1 - retire and stay in my HDB flat - will need about 2.5m.

Scenario 2 - retire and stay in my condo - will need about 3.3m

Scenario 3 - retire and stay in a yet to be bought landed property (I have very valid reasons to stay in one - not for vanity purposes) - will need about 4.8m

In the toughest case scenario, I have worked out that my HH should be able to hit it when I am at 56-57.

Work in a little bit of margin of error, I might retire at 60.

I am a conservative Asian so I don't use the 3%:withdrawal rule..

My retirement conundrum (besides the 3 optons above) is how to bridge between my HH retirement age and the CPF life payout age of 65... we have substantive cpf balances.

well if follow your figures... more than 90% of the population won't be able to retire at 60 or even 70 yrs old... considering how many ppl already have troubles hitting the CPF minimum sum
 

ocs_woodlands

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well if follow your figures... more than 90% of the population won't be able to retire at 60 or even 70 yrs old... considering how many ppl already have troubles hitting the CPF minimum sum

That's why I always emphasise that it's MY HH scenarios. Not a prescription for anyone else..I am looking at FULL retirement for a HH and not semi retirement for a single. So it will be a high benchmark..

But it's important to go into retirement with eyes fully open and not have any false hopes..

In a way you are right, the threshold for retirement for a couple in SG is not low. That's why a lot of people do semi retirement (in the name of keeping active and blah blah) to supplement inadequate funds.....

And that's why we also see aged people working as cleaners and etc. The physical observantions will bear out the numerical data..
 

Retribution

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Hi OCS,

Through your comments, opinions in this thread, it seems obvious to me that you have a set of presumptions about a lot of things.

Also, in your write up, you often mention that is your requirement and later use it to apply to the general population.

An Example, "To have a fully paid roof over a head/family's head, one needs at least a decent 4/5 room flat. At a middling location eg Bedok, that's about $500k."

Why does "one" need to have a "decent" 4/5 room flat at a middling location?

What if "One" has something else besides a "decent" 4/5 room at a non "middling" location. ??:D:eek::

So there is no way to have a "FULL" retirement for a couple without meeting the high benchmark?? :eek:

Everyone's definition of "FULL" , "Middling" , "Decent" etc... so different that you cannot generalize.

My uncle who is very rich from his business has a different definition. His definition is working in his workshop and repairing his buses, vans etc.... going for breaks chatting with colleagues/friends of many years over tea , dinner lunch. He lives in a non "middling" location where he has stayed all his life. etc...etc...

I just wanted to highlight that maybe your views are due to the limited exposure and similar social groups of the same standing. ( Just guessing!:eek:)

Humans are so diverse and varied that it is impossible to generalize them or their requirements and needs during retirement.

Ok....why am I writing this???? :s11::eek::s22::s11:

That's why I always emphasise that it's MY HH scenarios. Not a prescription for anyone else..I am looking at FULL retirement for a HH and not semi retirement for a single. So it will be a high benchmark..

But it's important to go into retirement with eyes fully open and not have any false hopes..

In a way you are right, the threshold for retirement for a couple in SG is not low. That's why a lot of people do semi retirement (in the name of keeping active and blah blah) to supplement inadequate funds.....

And that's why we also see aged people working as cleaners and etc. The physical observantions will bear out the numerical data..
 

BBCWatcher

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There's a conflict here, an argument that it's important to retire early in order to be able to travel, to see lots of new and interesting sights, etc. That's one set of lifestyle expectations. Then there's an argument that, no, you really don't need much wealth to get by in Singapore.

I don't think I buy both arguments simultaneously. True, you can travel the world on the cheap to some extent, but there is some level of wealth required if you're not going to work for an income (and don't have a benefactor).(*)

I also don't buy the "Oh, you can live on $2,000/month" claims, because that won't be true 20 years from now, for example. There's something called inflation, and you must take it into account in your retirement planning. If you're going to claim, "Oh, I can live on $2,000/month (2018 Singapore dollars)," then I might believe you.

If you're willing and able to retire outside Singapore, then you might be able to retire earlier, with reasonable or better financial safety.

Likewise, if you can get paid to do something you enjoy doing, then in a sense you're already "retired." That's a lovely situation, if you can work it out.

(*) This part is quite common in high wealth countries such as Singapore. There are many individuals who decide to retire early (or who never really work at all) who do not, personally, possess the wealth to do so if you were to extrapolate their lifestyle expectations forward for the rest of their lives. However, they have wealthy family members that they expect will bail them out in an emergency and who they also expect will bequeath wealth upon their demise.
 

ocs_woodlands

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Hi OCS,

Through your comments, opinions in this thread, it seems obvious to me that you have a set of presumptions about a lot of things.

.....

I just wanted to highlight that maybe your views are due to the limited exposure and similar social groups of the same standing. ( Just guessing!:eek:)

Humans are so diverse and varied that it is impossible to generalize them or their requirements and needs during retirement.

Ok....why am I writing this???? :s11::eek::s22::s11:

Hi,

You are right in some ways. I state what my HH requirements are and then I do some modifications from there to try to extrapolate.

Humans are indeed diverse. There are 7B of us so.it's impossible to have a single model of life and retirement. Closer, thereally are 5.7m in SG, still too large a number to have a working model.

But I was kinda hoping to look at a model wide enough to include a substantive number of people and yet with set parameters eg married HH with children and retiring in SG.

For this group, I believe it is near impossible to talk about retirement until the children are out or almost out of the nest and then means no 40 to retirement talk. For singles, that's another story for which I have no experience and qualification to talk about.

For this group also, they are likely to have aged parents who depend on them to a certain extent for allowances.

Of course there will be exceptions or even a significant minority who have no encumbrances by 40 or mid 40 eg parents passing on early. Childless or even child tragically passing on. There will.aways be exceptions - including inheritances and etc from rich uncles perhaps :)

As to why we are all spending time answering and sharing with each other - it's perhaps because we are bored and have time?:)

I have time today cos I am on leave today and done my home repair chores aleady :)
 
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BBCWatcher

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For this group, I believe it is *impossible* to talk about retirement until the children are out or almost out of the nest and then means no 40 to retirement talk.
There are occasional exceptions, but that's pretty typical.

Many couples are delaying childbearing until they're older, so they might decide to work a bit longer for that reason.

For this group also, they are likely to have aged parents who depend on them to a certain extent for allowances.
Yes, and in Singapore those parents are living longer and largely missed CPF LIFE (lifetime retirement income), which is never lavish anyway. Their needs are putting some financial pressure on younger and middle aged adults in Singapore.
 

Sinkie

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I think I will retire once I hit $10m net asset or else is continue to work until minimum age
 

hwmook

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Recently read these threads on people retiring by 45 then now 40 and some already retired at 30+, seem like many people not happy with their work thus all "retire". I have no plans to retire, going to work till I can't do it anymore. My current financial plan will bring me to 3-4M in 20 years time when I reach 55. I think that will be enough for me if I stop working after 55.
 

Sinkie

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Recently read these threads on people retiring by 45 then now 40 and some already retired at 30+, seem like many people not happy with their work thus all "retire". I have no plans to retire, going to work till I can't do it anymore. My current financial plan will bring me to 3-4M in 20 years time when I reach 55. I think that will be enough for me if I stop working after 55.

Wow din expect you to in your mid 30s

There are even some who cut and restrict their spending and fun to "retire" earlier

I strongly believe retirement is when one have so much money that his standard and cost of living and fun can be maintained for next 50 years or until he is 100 years old without the need to really find employment
 

Genosis

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Does anyone know of someone who retired before 40?
By retiring, I mean that they do not work full-time jobs anymore, instead just relying on their investments and savings (they might still do ad-hoc stuff just for fun). I'd like to hear about their experience retiring early, and how they managed to pull it off.

Assuming a fairly generous (in my opinion) monthly expenditure of say, $6000 (for a couple with no kids), how much in assets, investments and savings would be required to be able to retire?

The following would need to be taken care of, I suppose:
- Insurance needs (how much?)
- Food ($1000)
- Transport ($200)
- Utilities ($200)
- "Fun": Travel, movies, etc
- Income tax and property tax, if relying on property for passive income

And if a kid does come into the picture, as a rough gauge how much more would need to be added to that monthly $6000 allowance?

Yes, possible...... assuming no kids
This guy spent most of his days playing Magic cards :s22: Married & living in a 4-room flat
$1 million net worth.... oredi retired at 35 years old :love:

https://masterleonginvest.blogspot.com/2018/05/master-is-self-made-millionaire.html
 
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