[Official] Home Automation Thread

[sellun]

Thanks for the diagrams,
so if my current switch doesn't have neutral wire, i need to pull 1 from the DB first?

In short, yes. Need to have a neutral wire to somewhere (ultimately to DB)

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[sellun]

Regarding neutral wires, is it right to say you only require it if using smart switches?

For Eg the Xiaomi ceiling light seems like no need for the neutral switch and I just need to leave the normal switch in the ‘on’ position?

Yes.

It is to keep the smart switch powered to keep its functions.

Your Xiaomi ceiling light is powered as you kept the normal switch on.

Technically it's the same.

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[punkster]

Thanks! So what exactly would be the benefit of using smart switches over smart lights? Other than more colors

Yes.

It is to keep the smart switch powered to keep its functions.

Your Xiaomi ceiling light is powered as you kept the normal switch on.

Technically it's the same.

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[iamnagel]

ER....

hdb only running 1phase in ur own dwelling

different phases neutral is for 3 phase pwr and you dun have that in ur own dwelling, unless u stay in landed bunglow

either u buy 2c+E or just buy twin core cable, where when u split it it will have a N and a R.

N will run back to the N-bar
Earth goes back to Earth bar
1 N cable will terminate at Earth bar

Load to Load
Active to Active


without Neutral, behind the switch usually is labelled as 1C2 or 123, where 1 or 2 is the common and C is the live

I'm confused. Isn't it just tap neutral line from light point and fish it down to the switch? Why need to buy 2 core wire and split into 2?

What gauge to buy for neutral line?

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[pustefix]

Thanks! So what exactly would be the benefit of using smart switches over smart lights? Other than more colors

Smart Switches
+ Work like normal switch, WAF
+ Easier to install, usually cheaper too
+ Work even if network is down
- Not able to change brightness, color, etc.

Smart Lights
+ Able to change color, brightness, temp, etc.
- Need to set switch to on all the time, may need another switch to turn on/off light
- Harder to install if need to replace the entire light fixture.

 

[xwhitefangx]

ER....

hdb only running 1phase in ur own dwelling

different phases neutral is for 3 phase pwr and you dun have that in ur own dwelling, unless u stay in landed bunglow

either u buy 2c+E or just buy twin core cable, where when u split it it will have a N and a R.

N will run back to the N-bar
Earth goes back to Earth bar
1 N cable will terminate at Earth bar

Load to Load
Active to Active


without Neutral, behind the switch usually is labelled as 1C2 or 123, where 1 or 2 is the common and C is the live

Hi thanks for the explanation, appreciate it greatly,

then the neutral wire from the switch i must pull to the DB then connect to which point of the DB?

Also as iamnagel was mentioning, would it also work if i just tap the neutral wire from the ceiling point and bring it to the switch instead? without doing anything with my db?

thanks for your help

 

[pajamasguy]

Regarding neutral wires, is it right to say you only require it if using smart switches?

For Eg the Xiaomi ceiling light seems like no need for the neutral switch and I just need to leave the normal switch in the ‘on’ position?

some switches do not need neutral like Xiaomi Aqara switches (they have both types btw)
but some question its reliability. Im using these myself and a few had broken down after about a year but does that mean a small batch is bad or is it a complete design fault - that we dont know yet. Only time can tell.

Switches saves more money - one switch can control a few lights and you can use any kind of bulbs and fixtures, basically your existing ones.
Smart lights are more costly and they connect via Wifi which means nothing works without an internet connection. Smart bulbs reliability are questionable too just like an ordinary bulb can easily konk, so can these. They also often goes offline for whatever reasons

 

[pajamasguy]

Hi thanks for the explanation, appreciate it greatly,

then the neutral wire from the switch i must pull to the DB then connect to which point of the DB?

Also as iamnagel was mentioning, would it also work if i just tap the neutral wire from the ceiling point and bring it to the switch instead? without doing anything with my db?

thanks for your help

yes can. Im not an electrician but I dont see why not. I think its better to tap from the lights you are trying to control. Ive seen people tap from the aircon switches as well which sometimes is next your light switches. So long as it works. In any case, consult an electrician.

 

[zoneguard]

some switches do not need neutral like Xiaomi Aqara switches (they have both types btw)

For RF no-neutral, many choices: Broadlink, Funry, Livolo. Yoogee etc. The most mature option since around longer.
For Zigbee no-neutral, yes only Xiaomi Aqara for now.
For Wifi no-neutral, Burnett and Hassmart. I think there are probably more options on Taobao but you need to use the 单火线 keyword to find. Need to install capacitor at the first lighting for multi-gang switches.

 

[punkster]

I am contemplating to do smart lights for my new place. Was quoted $60 to pull neutral wire and change each power point excluding any hacking if necessary.

Is the price reasonable?

Then I came across this

Seems more hassle free and only cost $18 more per light with the added ability to change between warm and white light. Am I missing something?

some switches do not need neutral like Xiaomi Aqara switches (they have both types btw)
but some question its reliability. Im using these myself and a few had broken down after about a year but does that mean a small batch is bad or is it a complete design fault - that we dont know yet. Only time can tell.

Switches saves more money - one switch can control a few lights and you can use any kind of bulbs and fixtures, basically your existing ones.
Smart lights are more costly and they connect via Wifi which means nothing works without an internet connection. Smart bulbs reliability are questionable too just like an ordinary bulb can easily konk, so can these. They also often goes offline for whatever reasons

 

[pajamasguy]

I am contemplating to do smart lights for my new place. Was quoted $60 to pull neutral wire and change each power point excluding any hacking if necessary.

Is the price reasonable?

Seems more hassle free and only cost $18 more per light with the added ability to change between warm and white light. Am I missing something?

There are neutrals at the light points so no need to pull anything
Only at the switch points there’s no neutral.
If smart lights are more economical for you then use that. Everyone’s situation is different I guess

 

[viix]

Ah yes sorry if im unclear.

The light switches are just going to be simple malia legrand switches for now. So there is no termination point.

Hence the electrician is saying could be unsafe.

Not just about taping the wire at the switch side when you have not installed the smart switch.
After you install the smart switches, there might be current along some parts of the neutral depending how it was laid from the DB points. This is because the smart switch creates a close circuit with the neutral and live (powering the switch) whereas a dumb switch breaks the live reducing the risk.

Some areas are using the same neutral line so while the light may be off, there might be some current still.

For safety, always turn off the mains and test pen even the neutral wire when changing bulbs or switches.. Those who install smart switches, do a test pen test at the neutral wire at the light point, some places you might detect some current even when the light is off..

 

[punkster]

Ya. The price quoted was for light switches. I’m still in half mind whether to change the switches or the lights

There are neutrals at the light points so no need to pull anything
Only at the switch points there’s no neutral.
If smart lights are more economical for you then use that. Everyone’s situation is different I guess

 

[bullfrog]

Ya. The price quoted was for light switches. I’m still in half mind whether to change the switches or the lights

Change at switch is better. The problem with changing at the bulb means the switch must always be in the on position. Really confusing when someone turns off the light with the switch and you try using your app or voice to turn on the light. It will not work then you need to get up, walk to the switch and physically turn it on.

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[bullfrog]

There are neutrals at the light points so no need to pull anything
Only at the switch points theres no neutral.

This is 100% true. There is absolutely no need to pull neutral wires from DB box to your switch points. It can be tapped from your lightning point or quite possibly a power socket near it. Just get an electrician to do for peace of mind.


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[punkster]

Hmm. Ok thanks. Will discuss this with my electrician. Is there anything to look out for when choosing the switches? In general is the Aqara switches ok?

Change at switch is better. The problem with changing at the bulb means the switch must always be in the on position. Really confusing when someone turns off the light with the switch and you try using your app or voice to turn on the light. It will not work then you need to get up, walk to the switch and physically turn it on.

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[ksksksks]

Easy to replace the switches. Less than an hour job for 6 switches. I got the broadlink tc2 switch from here https://s.lazada.sg/s.d4PC

If u buy broadlink tc2 switch can get their rm pro to voice control the switches as they are using rf signal. Just position the rm pro strategically - somewhere in the center of all the switches.

Fit in nicely but the sides need to patch up a bit.

 

[seianko]

I'm confused. Isn't it just tap neutral line from light point and fish it down to the switch? Why need to buy 2 core wire and split into 2?

What gauge to buy for neutral line?

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rinse and repeat the basic wiring theory

N will run back to the N-bar
Earth goes back to Earth bar
1 N cable will terminate at Earth bar

Neutal to Neutral
Load to Load
Active to Active

so that everyconnection is closed loop
no bar, use a strip, there is sth known as N strip or E-strip

I can source all the diagrams and u will still ask the same question, becos u do not have electrical knowledge and it is not sth that u can safely assume monkey see monkey do and it will be 100% correct.

u can buy 2 single core. but i dun see a point when 2c can be cheaper and u need 2 core.

the diagram i show, 1 red is connected at load, 1 goes back to Active termination, the lilac cable is actually connected to a smart switch timer.

My current residence, i am the 4th owner, the previous 2, think they done a great job. in truth it was a unit ready for fireworks that will burn down many units in that HDB. heng they are often not home to use enough electricity
so pardon me, i am not too keen to educate too much.

 

[seianko]

some switches do not need neutral like Xiaomi Aqara switches (they have both types btw)
but some question its reliability. Im using these myself and a few had broken down after about a year but does that mean a small batch is bad or is it a complete design fault - that we dont know yet. Only time can tell.

Switches saves more money - one switch can control a few lights and you can use any kind of bulbs and fixtures, basically your existing ones.
Smart lights are more costly and they connect via Wifi which means nothing works without an internet connection. Smart bulbs reliability are questionable too just like an ordinary bulb can easily konk, so can these. They also often goes offline for whatever reasons

Thats why i am not an advocate for 100% smart switch. i prefer a smart switch w contingency. where automation is an given option. but without automation it still can function w/o electricity

TBH all these automation not quite suitable for HDB. for landed thats a different story
u can have solar, u can have UPS battery back up for 4-6 hours

There is nth wrong to play with it. but from my professional opinion, it is really more of a expensive hobby in hdb settings

 

[bullfrog]

Thats why i am not an advocate for 100% smart switch. i prefer a smart switch w contingency. where automation is an given option. but without automation it still can function w/o electricity

TBH all these automation not quite suitable for HDB. for landed thats a different story
u can have solar, u can have UPS battery back up for 4-6 hours

There is nth wrong to play with it. but from my professional opinion, it is really more of a expensive hobby in hdb settings

Huh? A smart switch is to turn on or off your electrical appliances or lights. If no electricity, your appliances also cannot work. Why need UPS or solar to function?

Also, all smart switches can be physically turned on or off even if there isn't any Internet.

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