[GLGT] Jamus latest argument on minimum wage kym

[Daftandnaive]

Urs higher level. Im just giving him an example just base on cai png hahaha

your logic is flawed, have you run a business before ?

because the product is not the direct output of that 1 worker

its not selling fish .. today i get 10 fish i sell for 100, tomorrow i get 6 fish i sell for 60 only .. lost 40 dollars

the cost structure of the entire product is more complex and the affected employee is far less than what you think

say i produce milk ..

so i have the ceo,director, manager, sales marketing .. etc etc .. i hire over 100 over employees

out of 100 employees maybe only 5 are currently below thee 1.3k (they are the cleaners/feeders .. whatever)

so now i have to pay 500 more for each of them .. which makes up 2500(exclude cpf for simplicity)

so how much do you think this 2500 makes up my total manpower cost of 100 employees ?

average 4k per employee, thats 400k

thats a 0.6% increase in manpower cost ..

of which .. manpower cost is not 100% of the total cost of the product(still need include machinery, distributiion, marketing etc )

so the total cost increase to produce the SAME amount of milk .. is probably insignificant ..

you need to see from business point of view .. anyhow pluck 40% from where ?

 

[zuoom]

Minimum wage as 1300.

What is our effective living wage here?

Make a guess if it is above or below this 1300 mark.

 

[pureice]

It is true not a dollar to dollar increase, but any biz/industry that is labour reliant - construction/Reno/health care/interns/domestic help etc all gonna feel the rise in cost. These services will just pass on to the consumer.

These causes more harm than help to the low wage workers.

 

[MegatonNev]

taking your example of going from $800 to $1,300, assuming that they do the same amount of work as before, their productivity in terms of work done per dollar has just dropped almost 40%.

do you think this is a good thing?

imagine if the costs consumers pay went up by 40% for everyday items (cai png from $3 to $5, Starbucks from $6 to $9...), so as to compensate for the loss in worker productivity... is this ok?

I don't think it's a productivity issue.

It's the same amount of output for work done in same amount of working time spent.

But cost has gone up. So it's more of a cost issue in my opinion.

 

[sizzy6]

Urs higher level. Im just giving him an example just base on cai png hahaha

maybe he is sole worker .. make miracle oil one

if increase his salary he need sell his miracle oil by the same increase

 

[moolala]

If he comes edmw i debate with him.

Minimum wage is a shyt policy.
Supply and demand is the correct way.

Start by reducing the supply.

brainwashed by puppies as usual

an employee has very little negotiating power

if everything is supply and demand, then dont need government/regulations
everything will work out according to supply and demand

 

[saikangwarrior]

It really depends on what is the definitive criteria for min wages if it’s 1.3k based on job function, it will have little impact on our cost of living, maybe 30-40 dollars extra per household. But surely, all the extra welfare given by the government is workfare assistance, gst rebate adds up to that amount already

 

[5408854088]

Jamus JSKM

 

[sizzy6]

It is true not a dollar to dollar increase, but any biz/industry that is labour reliant - construction/Reno/health care/interns/domestic help etc all gonna feel the rise in cost. These services will just pass on to the consumer.

These causes more harm than help to the low wage workers.

im not sure if min wagee includes fw .. (i mean why would WP manifesto be fighitng for min wage for foreign workers)

why would we want to give fw min wage when their only advantage is LOWER wages ?

most of the sectors you mentioned .. employed mostly FW .. so assuming min wage is for singaporeans .. its not affected

 

[MegatonNev]

It is true not a dollar to dollar increase, but any biz/industry that is labour reliant - construction/Reno/health care/interns/domestic help etc all gonna feel the rise in cost. These services will just pass on to the consumer.

These causes more harm than help to the low wage workers.

Can explain the part that harms the low wage worker?

 

[Daftandnaive]

maybe he is sole worker .. make miracle oil one

if increase his salary he need sell his miracle oil by the same increase

Its hard to think from a finished goods perspective because ppl just use simple cost to cost assumption. If there is enuf scale, even if the goods become slightly more expensive, infact the extra money in these ppl pocket bece more significant after consumption

 

[boob8888]

Suddenly HWZ got alot of economists

 

[coldish]

Can explain the part that harms the low wage worker?

Biz owners too greedy.
No branded car, europe holidays so have to harm the workers.

 

[Plow98]

Jamus very long winded..... tldr.
Why can't he summarise for simpur folks in EDMW.

 

[MegatonNev]

Jamus very long winded..... tldr.
Why can't he summarise for simpur folks in EDMW.

TDLR: Support minimum wages cause you voted for this.

 

[Daftandnaive]

100k ppl earn less than basic cost of living
Give them min wage = cost of living
The extra cost will make purchases slightly more expensive but u solve abit of the poor people problem but wun hurt the economy

Jamus very long winded..... tldr.
Why can't he summarise for simpur folks in EDMW.

 

[sizzy6]

Its hard to think from a finished goods perspective because ppl just use simple cost to cost assumption. If there is enuf scale, even if the goods become slightly more expensive, infact the extra money in these ppl pocket bece more significant after consumption

the low wage workers are at the lowest end fo the spectrum .. its unlikely they are major contributions to cost

there are just too many layers to costing

unless you are fisherman .. or the product is the direct output .. its unlikely lah

this era .. got machinery etc liao .. manpower should not be the main cost .. especially for low wage workers

if you still taking your sampan go out sea and fish .. or grow your own vegetable in your own farm without tools or machine .. then i think close down better lah .. cannot survive anyway

 

[kukubirdie]

Min wages is actually good fow low income worker but bad for boss and middlemen.
But as boss and middlemen, they will drag the low income worker create suffering to enrich themselves.

 

[Daftandnaive]

Well my business is 70% labour centric. Min wage def will make me lose some competitiveness. But if it is a law and my competitors have to do the same, its a zero sum game. Den the real battle is the fight for value and quality

the low wage workers are at the lowest end fo the spectrum .. its unlikely they are major contributions to cost

there are just too many layers to costing

unless you are fisherman .. or the product is the direct output .. its unlikely lah

this era .. got machinery etc liao .. manpower should not be the main cost .. especially for low wage workers

if you still taking your sampan go out sea and fish .. or grow your own vegetable in your own farm without tools or machine .. then i think close down better lah .. cannot survive anyway

 

[Baddieko]

To be fair sg is already one of the most ex countries in the world for cost of living.

Investors wanting to setup factory already avoiding sg like a plague due to rental cost.

Dont see 1300 min wage affect.